US Brig Syren by Heronguy - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64

[Heronguy]

And it was going so well!

 

 

A little too much lateral pressure and part of the framing gave way.  This was at a spot where the bulkhead extension had been cut away to a sweep port. It is weak there.  It was easy enough to reassemble and fix.  The sweep post top is a bit crooked but I think the sweep port itself is fine as I used my 1/8" space to set it.

 

 

Then another catastrophe (ok- issue not catastrophe) and when I put it back together the stress on the joint forced it out of alignment.  So another fix.

 

That weak section crumbled again so I replace the assembly by starting with a lintel that spanned over the bulkhead extension that was cut out. This is much stronger and is on a section of the hull (amidships) where there is not much curvature to the bulwarks.  This fix has held through the remainder of the fairing process.

 

And finally a section at the stern gave way!   taking with it a bulkhead extension.  By this point in the day - most of this happened in one day - I realized that some days would be spent out of the shipyard.  Put the tools down and leave the poor model alone.  

 

Fixes yesterday went ok and there haven't been any more failures (yet).

 

[Jim Rogers]

He who breaks and walks away lives to model another day.

[Heronguy]

Bloody but unbowed I continue with the battle - sorry a bit melodramatic!

 

Back to fairing the bulwarks structures.  I cut a 1/8" slot and a 3/32" slot in a piece of scrap to gauge the thickness of the sills and lintels. It made it easy to find high spots that needed a bit more sanding.

 

And after some time I got to this stage.

 

Checked the fairing at deck level and the top of the bulwarks with a pre-bent planking strip.

 

The photo above convinced me to take a bit more off the 1st bulkhead extension - it lies closer now.

 

 

I believe everything is now within reasonable tolerances so I am ready to go on.

 

[Heronguy]

Chapter 4 - stern framing

I'm looking forward to seeing how the hardwood stern frames work out.  Because of all the comments about the fragility of the structure while it is being built I decided to pin the frames as well as gluing them.

 

I used a drill press and a 1/16" bit to drill through the frame.  Then I clamped it to the filler block and ned a hand drill to drill a continuation of the hole through the bulkhead.  the pin was a finishing nail trimmed to length.

 

 

An added bonus (besides the expected strength) is that it hold the frame in position very nicely while the glue sets.

 

 

When I got to the 'B' frame I discovered that I must have damaged it on the sander because the bottom cornet was thinned down.

 

 

Two simple choices - make a new one or fix this one.  The fix was easiest and it turned out just fine.

 

Added the 'C' frames which I'd cut double width when I fabricated them.

 

The template is attached to the frames so the gunport sills can be located.

 

 

The sills are attached

 

[donrobinson]

Nice job on the fixes

[reklein]

Doug, I'd recommend just sanding the exterior first. Then plank the exterior before sanding the interior. After planking the structure is very strong. Specially on the stern where it is really flimsy until you've got planking on it.

[hamilton]

Hi Doug:

 

I cannot believe the poor quality of the material you were sent! I bought this kit a few years ago and have just turned to building it - the laser cut parts were from a good quality ply, though still quite fragile. I'm at about the same stage as you - I had attached the stern frames, but snapped them all off when trying to reposition stern frame "C" - I gouged my finger with a scalpel blade and in the chaos broke off all the frames - I too now have to make new ones!

 

Anyway, I'll follow along with interest

hamilton

[Heronguy]

Hi hamilton,  I read of your injury.  I'm scarred on my hands from my various encounters with the blades.  I probably should stay away from scalpels - sounds like they cut deep!

 

I'm just at the point to starting to sand my hardwood stern frames - I'll soon know whether the strength vs sandability trade-off pays off!

 

 

 

 

[Heronguy]

4 hours ago, reklein said:

Doug, I'd recommend just sanding the exterior first. Then plank the exterior before sanding the interior. After planking the structure is very strong. Specially on the stern where it is really flimsy until you've got planking on it.

 

Thanks for the suggestion Bill.  We'll see how mine hold up on the exterior  sanding - I'm hoping they'll be strong.

[Heronguy]

Installing the gunport framing proceeded with only minor issues.  The 1st time I attached the template it was too high but I caught it using the cannon cutout.  

 

 

I wasn't sure from the instructions or other build logs how to frame the lintels - the instructions suggest glueing 2 3/16"x1/4" pieces together.  I ended up installing them in "stair-step" fashion so that the top of the gunport would be parallel (bow to stern axis) with the sill.

 

I trimmed the template to get the top of the transom marked on the stern.  

 

As I hoped the use of hardwood stern frames, pinned to the hull, proved to be very robust.  OI had no mishaps sanding the stern and sanding the hardwood did not prove to be at all difficult.  I did have some problems with the glue joints for the filler blocks holding.  When I first received my second-hand ship modelling library I decided to start reading "Plank-on Frame-Models"  by Harold Undersell.  Early in the volume he writes:

 

" ... I never leave anything to adhesive, but ever single item, no matter how small, is always pinned or dowelled. That is one of my pet obsessions."

 

At the time I thought that quite quaint and old-fashioned.  I'm reconsidering - perhaps it will become one of my obsessions given the experience I'm accumulating!

 

I trimmed the template again to the planking curve and compared it to the marks that I made by using a plank to give a fair run at the stern as outlined in the instructions.  

 

Some more sanding and I'm almost there!

[Heronguy]

Slowly moving forward.  First strake! 

 

 

[Heronguy]

I finished the starboard upper bulwark and I was OK with the result.  The caulking marker I used between planks was good on the edges but there was serious bleeding at the butt joints.

 

 

I wanted to see how ir would look after staining with Golden Oak.  Now I'm NOT OK.  I don't like the appearance at all.  I have to do something to make this better.  I wonder what?

 

 

 

[Tigersteve]

The planking looks good. As for the stain- just do some sanding and it should lighten it. 

Steve

[reklein]

I stained all my planks before I applied them to the hull' I used min-wax golden oak. I used pencil to simulate caulking. No running, more subtle caulking. I applied the stain with a piece of old cotton T shirt. I like to lay wet stained planks out on triangular blocks to dry. The sharp edges leave little or o marks. I forgot to say I sanded them with 220 before staining.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by reklein

[Heronguy]

Thanks Steve and Bill. I was thinking I could solve the starboard problem by displaying the ship's port side.  Of course that just punted the problem to how to do the port side satisfactorily.

 

 Now you've given me some ideas.  Thank you.

 

[knightyo]

Hi Doug,

 

I had something similar happen to my Syren when I applied the Golden Oak.  In fact I think mine looked exactly the same.  If I recall, I lightly sanded the darkest areas, applied more stain to the lighter areas (and probably repeated this process a few times),  and finally used washes of different tones of acrylics in order to blend the colors together.  It's totally recoverable. Just takes time and tinkering. 

 

Alan

[HIPEXEC]

It gets stronger after a while. I finally took all my supports off and I'm starting deck planking! This kit is a fragile mess until then. Nice recovery and repair

[David Lester]

Hi Doug,

Your planking looks nice, but I agree that the stain is not quite so successful. Are you using basswood for the planking? It always seems to be the most reluctant to take a stain evenly. I have always found finishing to be the hardest part of woodworking and it's not really much easier for models either.

 

I had a similar situation on the deck of my Constitution (basswood) and finally solved the problem by thinning paint until it was very thin and and then painting it on and wiping it off. It worked very much like a stain, but with just a bit more pigment, so it covered more consistently, but still gave the appearance of stain rather than paint. I also recall that I masked off the rest of the model and went at the deck with paint stripper in an effort to get it as "bleached" as possible before applying the thinned paint. I experimented with colour first, mixing various browns and yellows etc. It might be worth a try playing around on some test wood to see if if this might be a possible solution.

 

I also go through the port-starboard display debate with every model and every time I decide I have to make a switch, my standard by necessity seems to drop just a little. In the end the only really acceptable way to view my models is head-on only (and from about 25 feet away.)

 

David

 

[Tigersteve]

I forgot to mention that using pre-stain will help before staining next time. 

Steve

[Heronguy]

1 hour ago, David Lester said:

Hi Doug,

Your planking looks nice, but I agree that the stain is not quite so successful. Are you using basswood for the planking? It always seems to be the most reluctant to take a stain evenly. I have always found finishing to be the hardest part of woodworking and it's not really much easier for models either.

 

I had a similar situation on the deck of my Constitution (basswood) and finally solved the problem by thinning paint until it was very thin and and then painting it on and wiping it off. It worked very much like a stain, but with just a bit more pigment, so it covered more consistently, but still gave the appearance of stain rather than paint. I also recall that I masked off the rest of the model and went at the deck with paint stripper in an effort to get it as "bleached" as possible before applying the thinned paint. I experimented with colour first, mixing various browns and yellows etc. It might be worth a try playing around on some test wood to see if if this might be a possible solution.

 

I also go through the port-starboard display debate with every model and every time I decide I have to make a switch, my standard by necessity seems to drop just a little. In the end the only really acceptable way to view my models is head-on only (and from about 25 feet away.)

 

David

 

Yes David, this is basswood.  I've been painting (other than decking) on previous models and it didn't bother me as much.  However my standards are increasing (always higher that my skill level unfortunately!) and I had high expectations when I woke up this morning.  I was so disappointed.  I've started a light sanding (Steve's suggestion) and it has helped already.  I'm treating this as a learning experience - seems there's lots of those in my builds!

  

As for your head-on 25 feet comment? - sorry I'd take your results any day - they're good.

[Heronguy]

26 minutes ago, Tigersteve said:

I forgot to mention that using pre-stain will help before staining next time. 

Steve

 

What does pre-stain offer?  I'm a complete newbie for woodworking so I've never looked into this.

 

[Heronguy]

2 hours ago, knightyo said:

Hi Doug,

 

I had something similar happen to my Syren when I applied the Golden Oak.  In fact I think mine looked exactly the same.  If I recall, I lightly sanded the darkest areas, applied more stain to the lighter areas (and probably repeated this process a few times),  and finally used washes of different tones of acrylics in order to blend the colors together.  It's totally recoverable. Just takes time and tinkering. 

 

Alan

 

Also Alan when you mention the washes of acrylics to blend the colours are you talking about a similar sort of process that David Lester mentions about his Connie deck?

[Tigersteve]

Pre-stain prepares the wood to accept an even coat of stain, hopefully avoiding blotchy spots.

 

I agree you should keep your expectations high. There's no reason to settle for anything less. 

Steve

[Heronguy]

57 minutes ago, Tigersteve said:

Pre-stain prepares the wood to accept an even coat of stain, hopefully avoiding blotchy spots.

 

I agree you should keep your expectations high. There's no reason to settle for anything less. 

Steve

Followup question Steve - can I use pre-stain effectively now that I've done one coat of stain + subsequent light sanding?

[Tigersteve]

I really don't know. I would say test on some scrap strips but I don't know how accurate that test would be. If it were my ship I would sand it until it's very smooth and pretty consistent color. You might not need more stain. If you plan to finish it with Wipe on Poly, even that finish will make the colors in the wood pop darker. 

Steve

[knightyo]

5 hours ago, Heronguy said:

 

Also Alan when you mention the washes of acrylics to blend the colours are you talking about a similar sort of process that David Lester mentions about his Connie deck?

Hi Doug, yes, extremely similar to what David described. He just described it far far better than I!

[David Lester]

Hi Doug,

I was thinking some more about Alan's suggestion of sanding the dark areas and restaining the light areas and it reminding me of having toured the Gibbard Furniture facility in Napanee many years ago when they were still in business. They were makers of furniture of the highest quality and they were especially famous for their incredible finishes. According to the person conducting the tour, this spot sanding process was the secret to their impeccable uniform finishes. I think they used fine steel wool, and as I recall they referred to the process as "hand zipping."  It might work for you.

 

David

[Heronguy]

Hi David, I've driven by Gibbard's but had never been inside.  Would have been a good experience. 

 

I've been going over the side with light sanding and things are improving.  I'll just keep at it with a light hand on the stain and steel wool until results are satisfactory. 

 

I'm glad I vented about the problem as I've got some encouragement and good ideas for fixes.

 

Thanks all!

[6ohiocav]

Doug,

 

Soft woods, such as basswood (one of the softest) and pine are very difficult to stain effectively. The wood fibers are less dense, and are very inconsistent. They soak up the stain, and because of the inconsistency in density, takes the stain differently throughout and tends to create a blotchy appearance.  I can see that in your photos.

 

Pre-stain, or Pre conditioners (minwax makes a good product) helps with soft woods since it saturates the fibers. After it dries, subsequent coats of stain will therefore adhere more consistently.  Conditioners are basically clear, but will add some darkening.

 

I must caution you however, no preconditioners are going to fully remedy the look of a soft wood when it is stained. Unlike hardwoods, such as pear, cherry, or boxwood, where stain enhances the look of the wood, staining softwoods almost always "changes" the look of the wood.

 

I am not suggesting that you strip off the basswood and replace with expensive hardwoods (although some many modelers have done that with the Syren), but you might think about painting it.

 

As far as adding conditioner after staining, you might want to try that after you sand down the surface as it appears you are doing now. Apply a couple of coats of conditioner and restain. It might help, but then again, it might look similar to your first effort. At this point, I would suggest that you experiment on a section of scrap planks first to see what you come up with.

 

Good luck.  Your ship looks great so far. The gun ports and sweeps are spot on.  That is not easy to do.

[Heronguy]

Thank you for the info and for the advice Darrell!

 

By the way I'm enjoying your niagara build log -  it is very helpful to have your annotated photos!