Byrnes Table Saw Tips (requested)

[Bob Cleek]

Was that holder for the giant Allen wrench from the factory or something you added. It's a simple and elegant solution to "where did I last put it?" problems!

[No Idea]

Hi Bob that’s just the Allen key laying on the saw. I think the type of keys supplied now are different to the old ones. It’s got a sleeve locitited over the short end to give you a better grip 

[aviaamator]

Wow! That's great!

[Bob Cleek]

On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 1:36 AM, No Idea said:

Hi Bob that’s just the Allen key laying on the saw. I think the type of keys supplied now are different to the old ones. It’s got a sleeve locitited over the short end to give you a better grip 

I had thought the "handle" was a tube that held the wrench. I'm probably going to see if I can attach a magnet to mine so it sticks to the saw somewhere. I like to have tools that are frequently used with a machine, like chuck keys and Allen wrenches, have a designated storage spot, preferably on the machine itself, so they are instantly available for use. It saves me a lot of time. Otherwise, even if the tool is within arms reach, I seem to find myself looking all over (and often right at it) in the clutter of the work-in-progress or when commencing, remembering I absent-mindedly left it in the pocket of another pair of pants!

[Jaager]

Bob,  when I can, I mount a bench top machine on an end cutting of a 2x12.

For Allen wrenches, I drill a hole in the base that is a push fit for the short arm of the wrench - always there.

For the Byrnes thickness sander I used some Gorilla double sided tape to stick a piece of scrap planking and put a hole in that and stuck a small plastic container with a lid to hold the screws.

The 9" bandsaw has open end wrenches, and I screwed a spring loaded towel rod brace to the base and it holds the wrenches.  The Allens are in their holes next to it.

For the tablesaw, a thick piece of scrap taped to the side, with the holes in the top.

[Bob Cleek]

Thanks for the good ideas, Jaager! I especially like the screw container idea.

[Thistle17]

May I hop onto this thread and by way of asking a question maybe back into a tip or a word to the wise.

 

I decided to "calibrate" my Byrnes table saw that is now about 2 years old. Before I go any farther it is hands down a great tool.

 

Here is what I am puzzled by. For discussion sake I need to rip 3/16" planks out of 3/64th stock. I am using a zero clearance saw plate and a 90 tooth Thurston blade from Byrnes. I set up the saw using a 3/16 (.1875) brass spacer bar that is made for just this purpose. If you measure via a caliper it is 0.1875 as it should be. I set the fence up as recommended (tightening the inboard lock down, then the outboard). The saw blade is set up about 3/16" from the table top to reduce rub. I rip a plank. If I measure it with the same calipers it measures 0.1875 at the lead part of the cut but it grows in width almost 0.090 by the end of the rip. I notice it starts to bind about 1/10 of the way into the rip. I also observe that the blade is moving outward away from the stock but not so much that it is hitting the insert kerf.

 

I have a theory but would appreciate hearing from the august body out there.

 

Joe

 

 

 

[Jaager]

Joe,

repeat using a blade with fewer teeth.  If that blade also flexes away from the fence, try it with a thicker blade.

 

I would rescue the tapered plank using a thickness sander. Using double sided tape, I would fix it to the ege of a 3/16 block and run it thru.

[vossiewulf]

1 hour ago, Jaager said:

repeat using a blade with fewer teeth.  If that blade also flexes away from the fence, try it with a thicker blade.

Alternatively, you can just slow down the feed rate if doing so doesn't cause burning.

 

The other day I was ripping some stuff and got sloppy and the saw was trying to kick back this piece of wood at me, but all it could manage was a groaning sound and tugging the piece in my hand a little bit. I laughed and told it not to worry, it would grow up to be a big dangerous saw one day.

[lehmann]

3 hours ago, Thistle17 said:

I notice it starts to bind about 1/10 of the way into the rip.

The main concern here is whether the fence is parallel to the saw.   If the back of the saw is closer to the fence than the front, then the saw will be pushed sideways,   That's the only way I can imagine getting 0.090" thicker.

[BANYAN]

Hi Joe, if I recall correctly (but please check this as I may be confused with something else), the fence is set up/designed with a very slight taper away from the centre of the blade/arbor to minimise (not stop) binding; that is why Jim suggests tightening the inside lockdown first.  BUT, that should not be effecting the cut as that should be at the leading edge of the blade not the back.  I can only suggest that you have some saw blade flex either from the density or thickness of the wood or, induced by the feed speed. 

 

The only other possibilities, but I am sure you will have checked these is that the blade is not sitting parallel to the saw or the back end of the fence is moving while cutting.  I invested in a dial indicator jig from Jim for checking this.  I found that once or twice I have not seated the blade on the arbor correctly, but from what you have described you can probably discount this point.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Thistle17]

Thanks for your input everyone. As I am driven to get on with my Cheerful I am moving in a few directions while waiting for replies. Even though the stock is only 3/64 box I lowered the blade below a cut through level. Then raised the blade to cut through on the next pass. It ripped the stock without resistance and uniformly. It may be the blade is starting to dull and heating up and flexing (at this point I half believe that). I did check the fence parallelism and the out feed relief of the fence. As a matter of practice I put slight pressure on the fence at that point when tightening it down. It may also be the rake angle of the saw teeth, it occurs to me as I write this so I will experiment with blade height a bit more. I have a note out to Jim Byrnes to see what he thinks  but will follow up and purchase some thicker blades for ripping.

 

There is an answer to this problem so I will keep at it until solved.

Joe

[mtaylor]

Joe, when cutting how far out is the blade above the wood?   When you shut it down, is the blade hot?   Not a Byrne's owner but I find if I wait between cuts maybe 30 seconds it's helps to keep the blade cooler.   What length are you cutting? 

 

Hmmm.... according to the instructions I have, for 3/64 stock, a 170 tooth blade.   Have a look here as there's a lot of tips on using the saw:  

 

[Thistle17]

Mark I had been  lifting the blade to just above the thickness of the wood. It is a practice I have long used in the "big boy" shop. I do this for safety and for reduction of the surface area the stock is rubbing against the blade

 

I relooked at the tooth rake of the blade in question this am and it is somewhat off, but close to 90 degrees making me think the tooth is acting more as a "chopper" than a slicer. Extending this thought as the blade cuts (or chops) and heats it deforms away from the stock somewhat causing the stock to widen. This continues until the blade can deform no more as it is stopped by the zero clearance insert. Am I over analyzing this or what?

 

And thank you for reminding of this reference.

Joe

[Thistle17]

Well Jim Byrnes was kind enough to return my call and after relaying my tale of woe concluded that the likely possibility is that one side of the blade has dulled. So I will order more blades. I will reorder the .03 and the .04 to gauge their effectiveness.

Joe

[Ryland Craze]

Joe,

 

I get my blades directly from Thurston.  They are great to deal with.  http://www.thurstonmfg.com/jewelers-slotting-saws.html

[bruce d]

Learned a trick today about changing the blade on the Byrnes when using an adapter bush.

Perhaps I am just the last to know, but I will post it in case it is new to someone. No pictures but if you have a Byrnes I feel confident you can follow along.

I was installing a new 4” blade and it was the first time I had used the 1” adapter bush. The table-top insert was removed and the blade raised to the max. After much fumbling trying to keep the adapter centred inside the bore of the blade while reassembling the remaining pieces, I figured out a better way.

Keep the arbour for the blade raised and turn the saw on it’s side with the motor to your left. It is best if the saw slightly overhangs the edge of your workbench so the weight is on the side of the saw, not the edge of the saw table-top surface.

Now the spindle is pointing straight up and gravity is your friend. Reach in through the insert aperture and drop the adapter on the spindle. Make sure it is centred. Slide the blade down the spindle and centre it on the adapter. Now slide the remaining holding plate on the spindle, then screw the shouldered nut finger tight. You can either finish the tightening now with spanners or return the saw to the upright position and do it there.

 

As I said, maybe everyone else knows this method. It certainly is an improvement on the mumbling and grumbling technique I started with!

 

Hope it is of use to someone.

 

Bruce

[Bob Cleek]

That works. Another trick, particularly if you have an adapter for each blade that needs one, is to place the blade flat on top of a flat surface with a piece of "non-stick" material, like a piece of tinfoil or plastic wrap. Place the adapter inside the blade center hole. Apply a sparing drop of glue to a couple or three evenly spaced points on the seam between the spacer and the blade. Pretty much any glue will do, with CA being the least preferable, but still acceptable. Let the glue dry. This attaches the spacer in the blade hole so that the blade can be easily placed on the arbor in the usual fashion. If the spacer needs to be removed, the lightly glued spacer can simply be broken free from the blade, if need be by tap with a small hammer. Such semi-permanent attachment also helps avoid losing the spacer and having to replace it (only to be found later!)

Edited April 21, 2021 by Bob Cleek

[mtaylor]

What Bob said would work well.  I use a piece of double sided tape that's bigger than the insert so it's uniform all around.

 

 

[MBS]

Hi Model Ship builders.  I am not a ship builder, but I make miniatures.  I am a new owner of a 17 year old Byrnes Table Saw.  I got it without a users manual among other things.  I have tried to contact Byrnes through the website and through phone calls, but no response.  So, I am hoping that someone on here could email or post a copy of the owners manual.  I anticipate I may have further questions about this saw, although I have learned a great deal from reading the threads here.  Thank you for your consideration. Also, does anyone know if there is a possible problem at Byrnes to explain why I haven't been able to get a response from them?

[jimbyr]

MBS

 

Sometimes the website doesn't email the emails.  Use mmllc@cfl.rr.com and Donna will send you the manual

 

Jim

model Machines

[MBS]

Thank you jimbyr!  You know I wasn't sure the email went through as the site glitched and I had to try 3 times.  I did leave some phone messages, not sure those went through?  Anyway, Thank You so much!

[mtaylor]

16 hours ago, MBS said:

Hi Model Ship builders.  I am not a ship builder, but I make miniatures.  I am a new owner of a 17 year old Byrnes Table Saw.  I got it without a users manual among other things.  I have tried to contact Byrnes through the website and through phone calls, but no response.  So, I am hoping that someone on here could email or post a copy of the owners manual.  I anticipate I may have further questions about this saw, although I have learned a great deal from reading the threads here.  Thank you for your consideration. Also, does anyone know if there is a possible problem at Byrnes to explain why I haven't been able to get a response from them?

If you haven't done so, there's a link provided in post #43 of a document made by the former owner of Hobbymill on the care and feeding of the Byrnes saw.

[ERS Rich]

Wandered into this discussion……

 

Circling back to the original post….the questions are relatively basic and reasonable.  

 

If you have never owned a table saw, any table saw, respect the machine and the damage it can do to yourself and others.

 

Get basic instruction before using it.  Plenty of instruction on Youtube and better yet, look for a local woodworking class.

 

Fundamentally if the blade is stoped midway through a cut, it is a dangerous situation, stop, STEP SIDEWAYS away from the saw and unplug it.  Watch out the wood could eject back towards you with enough force to hurt you.

 

Understand that when cutting, one side of the piece, usually the waste, must be free to move away from the blade.  That’s why NEVER use the Mitre Gauge and Fence at the same time.  A bound piece of wood can easily eject from the machine, back towards you, and hurt you.

 

Lots of great suggestions on this thread.  Understand the basics.  

 

If you use the saw frequently, stay focused, accidents, and one will most likely happen to you, occur when we let our guard down.  Always stand slightly off center, if the machine ejects a piece of wood you will not have time to get out of the way.

 

Again, respect the machine, it doesn’t have a conscious.