USS Tennessee 1869 by Keith Black - scale 1:120 - Wood Hull Screw Frigate - ex Madawaska 1865

[BANYAN]

Not sure if this is of interest to many, but from what I have determined, the following is the sequence introducing the 'rules' for the use of nav lights:

The 1846 statutory enactment of the ‘Trinity House Rules’ and the 1848 regulations prescribed uniformity in navigation lights.  The 1851 ‘Steam Navigation Act - The Shipping Laws’ repealed the 1846 Act, but re-enacted it in different terms until it also was repealed by the ‘Merchant Shipping Repeal Act, 1854’.  The rules enacted in the 1854 Act, applied the ‘port-to-port’ rule to all ships.  The navigation light requirement remained unchanged and required steam sea-going vessels, between sunset and sunrise under all circumstances, to exhibit lights as follows:

• When under steam, a bright white light at the foremast head, a green light on the starboard side, a red light on the port side.
  • The masthead light, on or in front of the foremast at a height above the hull of not less than 20 feet, was to be visible for at least five miles and the lantern constructed to show a uniform and unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of twenty points (10 points (112.5°) either side of the centreline (ship’s head).
  • The side lights to be visible for at least two miles, and the lantern to be constructed to show a uniform and unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of 10 points either side of the centreline.

cheers

 

Pat

Edited April 16, 2023 by BANYAN

[KeithAug]

14 minutes ago, BANYAN said:

The Shipping Laws’ repealed the 1846 Act, but re-enacted it in different terms until it also was repealed by the ‘Merchant Shipping Repeal Act, 1854’. 

Obscure knowledge, Sheldon Cooper  ……………….QED. …………..Amazing!

[Dave_E]

1 hour ago, BANYAN said:

Nice collection of lamps Bob; and a very helpful post. 

Indeed! 👍

[Bob Cleek]

8 hours ago, KeithAug said:

Obscure knowledge, Sheldon Cooper  ……………….QED. …………..Amazing!

 

Okay, the Sheldon Cooper reference sent me to Google. (I don't watch TV sitcoms.) This is what Wikipedia says (in part) about Sheldon Cooper:

 

 Sheldon Lee Cooper, Ph.D., Sc.D, is a fictional character in the CBS television series The Big Bang Theory and its spinoff series Young Sheldon.

 

The adult Sheldon is a senior theoretical physicist at The California Institute of Technology (Caltech), ...

 

He has a genius-level IQ of 187. (In The Big Bang Theory, ...  In Young Sheldon, his mother says that he has the same IQ as Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking, though neither is known to have taken an IQ test.) However, he displays a fundamental lack of social skills, a tenuous understanding of humor, and difficulty recognizing irony and sarcasm in other people, although he himself often employs them. He exhibits highly idiosyncratic behavior and a general lack of humility, empathy, and tolerance. These characteristics provide the majority of the humor involving him, which are credited with making him the show's breakout character.^{[10][11][12][13]} Some viewers have asserted that Sheldon's personality is consistent with autism spectrum disorder (or what used to be classified as Asperger's Syndrome.)^[12][14] Co-creator Bill Prady has stated that Sheldon's character was neither conceived nor developed with regard to Asperger's,^[14] although Parsons has said that in his opinion, Sheldon "couldn't display more traits" of Asperger's.  ...

 

Sheldon is characterized as being highly intelligent, but he tends to display childish qualities, such as extreme stubbornness and meanness. It is claimed by Bernadette that the reason Sheldon is sometimes mean is because the part of his brain that tells him it is wrong to be mean is "getting a wedgie from the rest of his brain".^[29] However, in season 8's "The Space Probe Disintegration", Sheldon tearfully admits to Leonard that he is aware of how his behavior comes across.

 

Sheldon frequently states that he possesses an eidetic memory (although his powers of autobiographical recall are more like hyperthymesia) and an IQ of 187,^[32] although he claims his IQ cannot be accurately measured by normal tests.^[33] He originally claimed to have a master's degree and two doctoral degrees, but this list has increased.^[34][35] Sheldon possesses a mastery (and extensive knowledge) of various subjects ...  (he is a well-known railfan and a fancier of model trains) ... Although his friends have similar intellects to him, his eccentricities, stubbornness,   and narcissism frequently frustrate them.  ...  He dislikes gifts, because the "social convention" in his view creates either a debt or burden on the receiver of the gift which will not stop until one of the two involved in the "gift-relationship" dies leaving the other either in debt or with an undue surplus.^[56] Sheldon also does not take drugs, not even legal ones such as caffeine, due to a promise to his mother, and is hypersensitive when he accidentally consumes them.^[57][43] However, it has been shown that alcohol often causes Sheldon to loosen up significantly,^[6] although it will also cloud his judgment on occasion. After drinking alcoholic drinks (both deliberately and accidentally), he has done things that he would never do while sober, such as singing out loud,^[58] mooning an audience full of people,^[27] confronting Wil Wheaton,^[59] leaving wildly inappropriate voicemails after "drunk dialling" Stephen Hawking, and affectionately slapping Amy's rear.^[60] After consuming caffeine in the form of coffee or energy drinks, typically on the rare occasions that he has to work beyond his normal working hours to meet a deadline, he acts in a hyperactive, erratic manner.

 

In response to criticism from his friends that he is mentally ill, Sheldon often retorts, "I'm not crazy; my mother had me tested"; which his mother has confirmed to be true, once while wishing she had gone through with a follow-up examination.

 

Both the character and Parsons' portrayal have received widespread acclaim, and is often cited as the main reason for the program's success by both critics and fans.^[87][88][89] James Chamberlin of IGN wrote: "It's hard to imagine what The Big Bang Theory would be if it weren't for Jim Parsons' great portrayal of Sheldon Cooper".^[90] Matt Roush of TV Guide stated that "there's a spark of divine inspiration in Jim Parsons' uproarious Sheldon Cooper".^[91] Ken Tucker of Entertainment Weekly wrote that: "Parsons is doing something rare on network TV: making intellectualism admirable, even heroic".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheldon_Cooper

 

If there was any intention of comparing me to Sheldon Cooper, that would be grossly unfair and I would have to strenuously object. I only have one doctoral degree.

 

   

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[Keith Black]

 When I started down this lantern rabbit hole I didn't realize I needed to pack a lunch, I thought it would be a pretty simple affair. But thanks to those  who contributed to the discussion on lantern usage, I've learned their use was far from simple. I now know why lanterns are not included on model ships of this time period. Knowledge is scarce and justification is limited. 

 

 I may try to figure out how to rig a lantern at the foremast head and let it go at that and blame morning watch tardiness for it still being aloft. I'll need to modify one of the lanterns I have even though its scale size (36 x 18 inches) it too large by a third. But I have other immediate task like rope coils and stropping deadeyes to be detained for a lengthy period of time on something that wouldn't have been there in daytime operations. 

 

 Thank you again to all for taking the time to add to this discussion and for following along......Keith 

[KeithAug]

I found the whole debate fascinating, which probably means that I too am blessed with Shelton’s traits.😀 

[wefalck]

Indeed, these are very useful and enlightening discussions. This is, where the enduring value of MSW is. It's good to be able to put dates on the lighting rules, particularly when one is interested in mid-19th century subjects. I wonder, how quickly these rules were in practices adopted in areas with predominantly regional traffic, say the Baltic and skippers were struggling to make ends meet.

 

On the subject of steamer-lights, below a couple of images from 1979 (the colour of the slides had degraded, so I turned them into B/W images) of the steam-tug RELIANT before the NMM in its unfathomable wisdom decided to scrap her. RIP.

The light was guided by two stays in front of the mast. I think there was a crane for the stays at the top of the mast and they were hooked into eye-bolts in the deck, set tought with small bottle-screws. There was also a small block in the top for the halliard, but I don't have any images for the belaying point of the halliard and the down-haul.

And the stern-light on a bracket rivetted to the engine-room casing:

More images of her here: https://www.maritima-et-mechanika.org/maritime/reliant/reliant.html.

Edited April 17, 2023 by wefalck

[Bob Cleek]

Excellent photos! I'd bet these are the only photographic evidence of the rigging of early steaming lights available on the internet, or anywhere else for that matter.  It speaks well of your "eye" for critical details. A picture is worth a thousand words. If I were judging a model that portrayed such a detail, I'd certainly give it high points and "extra credit" for that!

Edited April 17, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[wefalck]

Thanks, Bob, for the praise. I have been always on the look-out for such details that one rarely find pictured or drawn.

Some 40 years ago I contemplated building a model of her and acquired a set of model-building plans available at that time. For this purpose I also took various detail photographs of fittings and 'how things were done'. In the end, I built another tug, but the photographs still were useful. 

What is quite amazing is, how few photographs of certain (museum) objects/ships are actually available or known of. Some years back, a history of the Manchester Docks was being written on which RELIANT ex OLD TRAFFORD worked and the only pictures of her in the museum configuration they could find, were mine ... not even the NMM seem to have had some 😲 

[rwiederrich]

One interesting note.

 

I have several lights as well and the starboard Fresnel lens is red and the port lens is blue.   🤔  That is because the oil and wick used burned bright yellow...thus against the blue lens it shown green.  The starboard still shown red.

Bob...in your one image with the light open, is appears the lens is red....but no other image shows a lamp with a red lens.   

 

Rob

[BANYAN]

Thanks for the excellent photos Eberhard.  As Bob says, this type of detail is rarely shown and fully explains how they were rigged.  Fills in a couple of holes in my research also.  

 

Thanks for your patience in allowing this discussion in your build log Keith.  Perhaps it might make a very useful separate discussion if these posts were moved into their own topic?  Less clutter in your log and more readily search if given the appropriate subject header?

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Keith Black]

1 hour ago, BANYAN said:

Thanks for your patience in allowing this discussion in your build log Keith.

 This is not a purest build log. I enjoyed every post as each poster brought something meaningful to the discussion. Again, thank you to everyone for your responses.

 

 What great photos, Eberhard. Thank you. In the first photo I can see how the lantern is mounted to the "carrier" (I don't know the correct name) and it looks like it would take ten minutes to disconnect the lantern from the carrier for the lantern to be taken down to the lamp room for refill and maintenance.  I will try to replicate the carrier and attach to the lantern i posted a photo of in an earlier post. Those photos answer so many questions, thank you again for posting them.

[Bob Cleek]

16 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

One interesting note.

 

I have several lights as well and the starboard Fresnel lens is red and the port lens is blue.   🤔  That is because the oil and wick used burned bright yellow...thus against the blue lens it shown green.  The starboard still shown red.

Bob...in your one image with the light open, is appears the lens is red....but no other image shows a lamp with a red lens.   

 

Rob

Actually, in the Tung Woo lights, there are curved pieces of colored glass, one red, as shown, and the other blue, in brackets inside the lamp behind the Fresnel lens. The Fresnel lenses are both clear and from certain angles in certain light appear clear from the outside when the lamps aren't burning. I believe the thin curved colored glass panes behind the larger clear Fresnel lenses would have been a manufacturing economy.  There is a lot more glass in the Fresnel lenses than in the color panes behind them. Glass is colored with metal oxides. Only the colors created with metals maintain their color intensity without fading in all situations including direct sunlight. A prime example where the capacity to hold color and not fade is critical would be in a running light. Red is the most expensive color of glass because oxidized gold is used to achieve its color. The larger quantity of clear glass used to cast the Fresnel lenses was the least expensive glass of all. 

 

If you look closely, you can see the narrow top edge of the curved pane of glass that slides down the side slots and forms a curved "box" between the glass pane and the back of the Fresnel lens.

 

 

I've always noted that the green light is actually blue with a yellow flame showing green through it, but I can't remember ever seeing a model in a museum that showed a blue starboard oil-burning running light, and I've looked. They all seem to be colored green. Properly, the light board might be painted green, but an oil lamp lens should be blue, or "bluish clear," I suppose. Maybe nobody notices this sort of thing but me. I'm the sort of guy who "clocks" his screws when they show. That's good for extra points on the concours circuit.  

Edited April 18, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[Keith Black]

 

1 hour ago, Bob Cleek said:

I'm the sort of guy who "clocks" his screws when they show. That's good for extra points on the concours circuit.

 

As is splitting the tire manufactures name with the valve stem. Do you play with cars, Bob?  We did till we retired and we could no longer afford the hobby on a fixed income. I do miss it from time to time with the exception of belt buckles. 

[rwiederrich]

7 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

Actually, in the Tung Woo lights, there are curved pieces of colored glass, one red, as shown, and the other blue, in brackets inside the lamp behind the Fresnel lens. The Fresnel lenses are both clear and from certain angles in certain light appear clear from the outside when the lamps aren't burning. I believe the thin curved colored glass panes behind the larger clear Fresnel lenses would have been a manufacturing economy.  There is a lot more glass in the Fresnel lenses than in the color panes behind them. Glass is colored with metal oxides. Only the colors created with metals maintain their color intensity without fading in all situations including direct sunlight. A prime example where the capacity to hold color and not fade is critical would be in a running light. Red is the most expensive color of glass because oxidized gold is used to achieve its color. The larger quantity of clear glass used to cast the Fresnel lenses was the least expensive glass of all. 

 

If you look closely, you can see the narrow top edge of the curved pane of glass that slides down the side slots and forms a curved "box" between the glass pane and the back of the Fresnel lens.

 

 

I've always noted that the green light is actually blue with a yellow flame showing green through it, but I can't remember ever seeing a model in a museum that showed a blue starboard oil-burning running light, and I've looked. They all seem to be colored green. Properly, the light board might be painted green, but an oil lamp lens should be blue, or "bluish clear," I suppose. Maybe nobody notices this sort of thing but me. I'm the sort of guy who "clocks" his screws when they show. That's good for extra points on the concours circuit.  

Indeed I see it and am surprised at myself that I hadn't realized this from the beginning, by not looking closer.  Aging a lamp can be aided by realizing this particular fact...that thin plates of curved *interior* glass would have been the preferred method and not, as in later designs that used more expensive colored Fresnel lenses.  Even more modern lamps used clear Fresnel lenses and colored electric bulbs.

Thanks for the clarification.  And I'm sorry we have pushed the envelope on the subject in Keith's log.

 

Rob

[Keith Black]

2 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

And I'm sorry we have pushed the envelope on the subject in Keith's log.

 

 Rob, please don't feel the need to apologize, push this envelope as far as you guys want or till everyone wants to move on to something else as I have more to add on the subject. Lantern teaser.... I found something in one of the Tennessee photos and it put a big smile on my face, more later. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Keith Black

[Glen McGuire]

I tried to stop myself from doing this, Keith, I really did. But my fingers just wouldn't listen.  I fully expect for you to block me from your build log going forward.

[rwiederrich]

45 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

 Rob, please don't feel the need to apologize, push this envelope as far as you guys want or till everyone wants to move on to something else as I have more to add on the subject. Lantern teaser.... I found something in one of the Tennessee photos and it put a big smile on my face, more later. 

Newly discovered info is exciting for sure......remembering that many Naval customs did not find their way into civilian practice....or vise-versa.

 

I just wanted you to feel comfortable with the slight diversion....though it did pertain to your subject....originally.  Like many sub-subjects.....group think, can sometimes run amok from the original posters log direction.

 

Sall-good, it appears, since old nautical oil lamps are, sometimes the only artifact we can acquire for our personal collections that fit in our limited display space.

 

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

5 minutes ago, Glen McGuire said:

I fully expect for you to block me from your build log going forward.

Where's the *block* button......where.....?🖐️

 

😉

 

Rob

[Keith Black]

52 minutes ago, Glen McGuire said:

I fully expect for you to block me from your build log going forward.

How funny is that! No, I was the one expecting to be blocked from your build logs dear friend. 

 

45 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Where's the *block* button......where.....?🖐️

 Rob, this goes back to Glen's build logs and me always wanting him to add a penguin to his SIB builds and my posting of penguin photos in his build logs. Long running joke between Glen and I. 

 

53 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

I just wanted you to feel comfortable with the slight diversion....though it did pertain to your subject....originally.  Like many sub-subjects.....group think, can sometimes run amok from the original posters log direction.

 I'm perfectly at ease with all, Rob. Thank you. 

[Javelin]

More lanterning, the matt black background is part of the colregs nowadays. It's obligatory to avoid reflections, which would then ruin the angles of the lights. Not sure since when this was part of colregs. 

[Keith Black]

 Once I was provided with all the useful information during the lantern discussion I went back over all the Tennessee photos and I'm pretty sure I've located the block for the masthead lantern. When I noticed it I slapped my forehead, smiled, and thought of and thanked each of you.

 

 In the below photo I'm pretty sure the top arrow is pointing to the masthead lantern block spliced into the stay. Also, zero to 180 degree vertical lines can be seen leading from the block to the stern castle stanchion railing area which I take to be the lantern guide, lift, and downhaul lines. Maybe the lift and downhaul lines were tied off to the stanchion railing? I can see no reason for a block to be spliced into the stay at that point and for dang sure not the vertical lines for anything other than for the masthead lantern. 

 

 In the photo below the block is visible but not the lantern guide, lift, or downhaul lines. 

 

 

 The below photo may and I say may show the actual lantern? It's in the right location but the photo quality make it a guess.

 

 

 The following photos show??? For years I've looked at this stern view photo and mused as to what the object was between the arrows. Is it possible that it was for the stern lantern? It's the right shape at the top and the lantern could be tied on each side to keep the lantern from twisting. Thoughts please. 

 

 

 To find something new after looking at these photos all these years is exciting to say the least. Thank you!

[wefalck]

I think you likely identified the lantern rig.

 

The second picture shows, btw, another feature that one doesn't see too often on photographs and extremely rarely on museum models, let allone on amateur models: a sailcloth ventilator. It is just forward to the lantern halliards.

Off the top of my head I only recall an instruction model in the Museu de Marinha, Bélém (Lisbon), the frigate ULYSSES of 1792:

The same model shows another very rarely seen feature: chafing gear as applied to the deadeyes in preparation for long crossings:

 

[Keith Black]

5 hours ago, wefalck said:

another feature that one doesn't see too often on photographs and extremely rarely on museum models, let allone on amateur models: a sailcloth ventilator.

 And I pondered that object for years always wondering but never knowing till now. Thank you, Eberhard.

 

 I would have great, if not impossible, difficulty in replicating the sailcloth ventilator. Even more difficult is determining what is being ventilated. The third set of photos in my post #802 is the only photo showing the forecastle deck. I've never known what was shown just forward of the 60 pound Parrott rifle. being so blurred I ignored it but now I'm thinking that's a companionway which would make sense and be reason for the sailcloth ventilator. 

 

 Edit.....Impossible means giving it your best shot and if you fail, then the task maybe impossible. It's not a companionway forward of the 60 pounder, it's a hatch which fed ammunition to the Parrott. I wondered how they got shell and powder up ladders to the forecastle deck, they didn't, it was via a hatch. I looked for companionway stanchions and couldn't see any so it has to be a hatch. I'll have to move the bitts forward a tad but I'll get a hatch in there. Then I'll give it my best shot to model the sailcloth ventilator. It must be rare as nothing comes up when sailcloth ventilator or canvas ventilator is Googled. I owe it to Eberhard for the discovery and knowing what he was looking at and to the Tennessee for having one deployed to make an honest effort  The hatch coaming is higher than the hatches on the main deck which makes sense because of waves breaking over the bow. The hatch cover will need to be partially open for the ventilator. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Keith Black

[rwiederrich]

19 hours ago, Keith Black said:

How funny is that! No, I was the one expecting to be blocked from your build logs dear friend. 

 

 Rob, this goes back to Glen's build logs and me always wanting him to add a penguin to his SIB builds and my posting of penguin photos in his build logs. Long running joke between Glen and I. 

 

 I'm perfectly at ease with all, Rob. Thank you. 

Insider joking.    

 

Rob(and it's on me)

[KeithAug]

Great forensic dissection of you photographs Keith.

[Keith Black]

I tried making a lantern carrier as is pictured in Eberhard's post #787, first and second photos. It turned out looking like the dog's lunch so I moved on the masthead lantern 2.0. I was going to attach wire eyes to the carrier but it looked so nasty I said to myself, "self, just add the wires directly to the lantern", so that's what i did.

 

 The top eyes are made from a continuous piece of 28 ga annealed wire. The middle eye is made with single twist around a jewelers round nose pliers and then the eyes one either side are a inside loop made with the jewelers pliers. The bottom eyes are made the same. The wired eyes are attached to the lantern with CA. The outside loops are for the guide/stabilizing lines. The middle top and bottom eyes are for the halyard to run through to the deck. The halyard and downhaul line are tied at the base of the middle eyes. The viewer must use their imagination as to how the lines were removed from the lantern via clips and clevis where it could be taken below and serviced, those are just too small to try and replicate. After viewing the photos I need to adjust the eyes to level. 

 

 This temporary lash up has too much slack so the lantern appears a bit wonky but once permanently added to the model with lines under tension the looks will hopefully improve.  

 

 

 

 

 

 Once again, thank you to all who made this lantern project possible. Thank you to all for your kind comments and the likes and thank you to all for having the patience to follow along. 

[BANYAN]

That looks great Keith; not too many models around with this level of detail - kudos.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[BANYAN]

Keith, I hope you don't mind me hijacking a little longer?

 

Bob, Eberhard.  Do you think a variation/version of the masthead lantern may have had a detachable backplate to which the lantern proper could be attached?  The backplate would have the guides and having it detachable would negate the need to remove the guide wires / wire jackstays when needing to service the lamp.  Although some guidance suggests the lanterns were stowed, refilled and trimmed daily, what would preclude the lanterns being filled and trimmed on-deck?

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Keith Black]

 Pat, if you don't mind me adding my two cents worth.

 

 In Bob's post #778, I basically copied that lantern. the rings at top and bottom are for the guide lines, we can't see the back but it's not hard to imagine it being something similar to what I've done less the the eyes for the halyard to the deck. I added those to keep all lines separated and to insure the no line came in close contact with a hot lantern.