HMS Winchelsea 1764 by Blackjack40 - 1/48

[blackjack40]

Alright, I'm signed up. This will be my first time doing a scratch build and  I'm going to try and do as much as I can my self and rely on as little laser cut part as little as possible. I have a scroll saw so hopefully this works out. I plan to make this a plank of bulkhead. We'll see how this goes! Thanks for the encouragement already, I'm pumped to start! 

 

-Joe 

[Chuck]

Awesome.....Remember the laser cut parts will only be made in Yellow cedar or Cherry.    So if you think you might need them for some of the more difficult fittings or parts, I suggest you stick with those woods.  Although Boxwood would work too as any Cedar fittings would blend right in.

 

Chuck

[blackjack40]

Thanks! I’m thinking yellow cedar right now. 

[Chuck]

Great....remember that for any planking you will need to buy the 2" sheets on my site.   BUT for all other parts like cutting out your stem and keel parts or stern frames, you should get the wider sheets.

 

Chuck

[blackjack40]

Thanks Chuck! For ripping my own planks, what tools do you use for that? I have never done that before. I have a scroll saw and a regular table saw, but those both seem ill suited to the task. 

[Chuck]

Yes you will need a small hobby table saw like the Proxxon or Byrnes saw.   If you plan on continuing with the hobby it will be the best investment you make if scratch building is in your future.

[blackjack40]

Lite Ply wood from national Balsa for the bulk heads and the False Keel ordered! Printing up my plans today. I have a rotation coming up so I expect to start work on the project in September. But we'll see... 

 

-Joe

[blackjack40]

Ok, the wood is here! and so is the first hurdle... went to verify my plans before we start cutting and I seem to be off by 1/32 of an inch over the course of an inch. Not much, but over the run of the model, it will add up to a lot. I have printed the 8.5 x 11 plans and they seem to line up with my larger sheets so I'm having a bit of an internal debate. Wondering if someone more experienced could validate what I'm seeing as a print issue before I run back to the print shop to re-print. Thanks! 

 

Chuck, I hope the image isn’t a problem as it only shows the scale bar. I will take it down of it is. 

 

-Joe

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by blackjack40

[CaptMorgan]

I'm not at home at the moment but I can verify that I have the same issue.  And having the same internal debate.

I'll be watching - I wish I was at home so we could compare more notes....

Steve

[Chuck]

I think you guys will be just fine.  If you got any laser cut parts,  just place them on top of the parts on the plan and see if they match up. Or   as you said....if your 8  1/2 " x 11 sheets also match the plans then you are good to go.  

 

Its the exact file i used to laser cut the parts.  It could just be that i stretched the scale bar by accident as i moved them and made room for the NRG logo.  I had to shrink that text above it in some cases when I decided to do this as a group build and add the Nrg logo.  Then i copied it to the other sheets. I may have grouped the scale bar in with it when I did that.  I will check my original file and let you know.  But I am pretty sure that is what hapenned.

 

 

 

[Chuck]

Indeed that is what happened.  So your print outs are just fine.  I mistakenly shrunk the scale bar when reducing the size of the plan sheet info or logo above it.  I have fixed that up so all sheets printed will have correct sized scale bars.  But your plan sheets are just fine otherwise.  Sorry about that.  So dont worry about reprinting them.

 

Chuck

[blackjack40]

thanks chuck! Time to make some saw dust

[blackjack40]

First blood! a minor success and a minor failure.

 

 

So first thing, yellow cedar, awesome! second, scroll saw not difficult but it is time consuming. I did mess up on one of the smaller pieces and had to re-cut. Not big deal. What was a big deal was when I compared my pieces to the sheet plans to start putting the jig saw together and realized it was not to scale... turns out the adobe program I had was for tablets and it printed it at 94% and didn't give me the option to change the scale. The actual adobe reader has been downloaded so this won't be an issue in the future. Chocking this up to a good practice run. 

 

Second topic. I live on a military base and we have an arts and crafts center. Never been there before but thought I would check it out today. Turns out they do laser cutting for plaques and doll houses so I thought, maybe they could do some ship parts. brought them the stem plans and BAM they were laser cut for six bucks! great deal! 

 

Popped out the big pieces and started to assemble and it became apparent why its only six bucks. 

 

looks minor... its not minor... every piece is slightly angled... 

The lesson, not all laser cutters are created equal... or calibrated... 

 

 

so back to the scroll saw. Good news, round two should go even better... and in the right scale.

 

 

-Joe

Edited August 20, 2019 by blackjack40

[Gregory]

That angle is common with laser cutters that have not been focused properly..   There will always be a slight angle, but  negligible on a finely tuned laser..

 

You can diminish some of the effect of the angle by reversing adjacent parts...

Edited August 21, 2019 by Gregory

[blackjack40]

8 minutes ago, Gregory said:

That angle is common with laser cutters that have not been focused properly..   There will always be a slight angle, but  negligible on a finely tuned laser..

 

You can diminish some of the effect of the angle by reversing adjacent parts...

Thanks for the tip, I think I’ll just re cut with the scroll saw. This whole project is about learning for me so no worries. Lesson learned. 

 

I will keep that in mind if I have issues with laser cut parts in the future thou. 

[Jim Rogers]

A good friend of mine has three laser machines and a computer controlled router. Sooooooo.

[ASAT]

Is the kerf wide or short? If you sand the pieces to 90 degrees will they be too small? I hope it works - I have access to a USAF base too!! Didn’t think of the Craft Center!!

Edited August 21, 2019 by ASAT

[RichardG]

Now that is a GOOD friend!

 

I wonder if the router would be better than a laser? More waste but no char or angles. Since I have neither, I have no idea.

 

Richard.

[Chuck]

You guys are so lazy....LOL.   Just cut the pieces on a scroll saw.  Those pieces were cut so

poorly on that laser cutter I think a blind guy could do a better job on a scroll saw than that.

 

It would be a huge mistake to try and use my templates on a harder wood (Pear or Box) as well and have them laser cut.  The parts wont fit and you will waste a lot of money and wood.  Lou....the scroll saw is waiting for you!!!!  

 

Those templates and plans are made for my tight tolerances.  I have never seen a laser cutter come close to replicating it.  So trust me when I tell you ....you will just end up wasting your money and wood.

 

Either use my laser cut parts or cut them with a scroll saw.  

 

Chuck

 

 

[blackjack40]

As chuck said, having my knowledge now, not gonna waste my time on a craft center laser cutter. 

 

Lesson learned Chuck! I’m happy with how the first one turned out on the scroll saw, if only it was the right scale. The next go will be better given the experience now! 

 

-Joe

[Jim Rogers]

I am not lazy, I just know my limitations with a scroll saw.

[blackjack40]

Great success! The false keel is cut and holy cow, I’m hooked... Also holy cow this thing is huge, already knew that but holy cow!! 

 

 

That is my Syren behind it and that truly brought it all into scale for me. 

 

 

Next step is it clean it up to the point I’m happy with it then glue it up! 

 

-Joe 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by blackjack40

[Jim Rogers]

That IS a big girl.

[Chuck]

She is looking really good.  Great progress.

[blackjack40]

I’m Making that saw dust and improving with the scroll saw! I re-cut the false keel as I was unsatisfied with the first one. It initially looked fine but in an effort to even the bottom I sanded way too much of the aft section and it was unrecoverable. New one is cut tho and drying in my high tech clamp.

Looking at the photo, it occurs to me that in my excitement I didn’t cut the slots on the bow portion... 😑🤣. I’ll get it thou.

 

This is what I am most excited about, all my bulk heads are now either cut or ready to be cut. Working through it! 

 

 

Lastly, I built my build board. Still refining this one. The initial braces we're too wide and I’m working on cutting/ sanding them down to the right size. Also planning to put one more set of braces in the middle and keel alignment bars on the bottom which are in the picture but not attached. That will be the last piece to go on after the last brace is on so that I can cut them to the right length. 

 

If anyone is interested I can go into how I made/making the board. 

 

 

As always, open to ideas and feedback. Thanks!

 

-Joe

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by blackjack40

[Chuck]

Nice progress. 😀

[blackjack40]

My first attempt at the Knee is complete. Honestly not very happy with how the edge darkening turned out, seems to pronounced to me. I think I need to get more precise fits along the seams and use the lighter #2 pencil like the larger top pieces. Serves me right for switching pencils half way through. 

 

 

 

 

-Joe 

[Chuck]

Its not the pencil that is darkening the seams.  Its the space between parts.   If your seams are not tight, they will fill up with sawdust and mix with the glue and finish and turn very dark after hitting the pencil graphite.   Tighter seams is the way to go but it doesnt look too bad at all.  Its not an easy thing to scratch and get a real tight fit.  Each piece needs to be fine tuned with a delicate touch until they fit super tight.  At least that is the goal.

 

But keep in mind that if you plan on painting the model like the contemporary version, most of the stem is actually painted and covered up.  Not many of those seams will even show.

So you could always take the same approach as the contemporary model and cut it out in one piece rather than assemble all of the individual parts.  Most contemporary models are made like that anyway.  It makes for a really clean worry-free stem.

 

Chuck

[blackjack40]

Good point chuck, I was thinking about that earlier today. I really like the look of the seams I’ve seen on yours and other models, it makes it feel more real. I’m also not convinced that the historical color scheme is the direction I want to go just yet. 

 

With that in mind, do you think it’s worth cutting it again and try to get a tighter fit?

 

-Joe 

 

 

[Chuck]

only if you are up to the task.  It’s up to you.  I will be painting the stem but not until much later.  It really helps the head rails stand out.  It almost always comes out better the second time around.  If anything you could just use the laser parts I have also.  You know what’s involved and gave it a try.,  and it might be worth seeing how it comes together with the laser parts so you can see what the tolerances are of the tight joints.  This way you won’t get frustrated....and possibly stop the project all together.  It’s up to you depending on how you feel.

 

You could use the one you have but if it will drive you nuts looking at it, I wouldn’t.  I have been there.