HMS Winchelsea 1764 by AnobiumPunctatum - 1/48

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Hi all,

 

first of all I like to thank Chuck and all the other guys in the background which make the group build possible.

I will participate and build this nice 5ft rate frigate, because the reconstruction of my HMS Triton will need much more time and I have lerned in the last years that it don't make sense to build her or any other ship as POF model before I am retired. So I think it is a good possibility to take the challenge of building HMS Winchelsea and improve my skills. In the moment I like to build her fully rigged and colored as the original model. As wood I will use pear, boxwood and other European woods.

 

For job reasons I live partially in the Netherlands, but I will build her at home in Germany. So I am not the fastest builder of the group.

[Thistle17]

Now Christian were/are you an altar boy or entomologist to pick such a name?

Joe

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Whow, I didn't realize how the last year flew by.

 

I actually wanted to start with my model much earlier, but due to the Corona crisis and a project change, I gave up my second home in Amsterdam and moved back home. I now have to use my shipyard as my home office, so scratch building isn't really a good option. At Christmas I found the offer of ir3 at MSW and considered using the small lasercut kits from Chuck to pursue my hobby. In the meantime, the decision has been made and I am waiting for a package with the components. After Chuck reopens his store I need to buy some yellow ceddar and then I will start my build.

 

I dream to fully rig WInchelsea later.  Frigates are in my opinion some of the most beautyful shipmodels with a rig.

Edited December 29, 2020 by AnobiumPunctatum

[Chuck]

That is great news indeed.  I will open on Sunday.   Cant wait to see your progress on the model.

 

Chuck

[Rustyj]

Welcome aboard Christian! 

[captain_hook]

Nice! I will follow on this. The Winchelsea is on my wishlist too. 

[wyz]

Welcome to the Winchelsea build group Christian.  I too am relatively new, within the past three weeks.  Unlike most of my fellow model builders I've decided to make my Winchelsea using the bread & butter method (Georgian style).  Right now I' doing all the prep work necessary for that kind of build. (constructing a building board, making templates to shape the hull, drawing and cutting out the shape of the lifts......)  One of these days I'll get to the starting line.  Like you, I am also contemplating rigging the model.  We chose a great ship to model.  I'm excited about getting the CNC carving set available for this ship.  Happy modeling.

Tom

[dvm27]

Missed your work, Christian! Look forward to your next project.

[Ron Burns]

Right on! Welcome to the Winchelsea group Christian! I look forward to seeing the Winnie rigged. Between yourself and Tom,  we should all be in for a treat

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Thanks very much for your interest on my buildlog.

Greg, I will later continue with my other projects, especially Fly and Triton.

[AnobiumPunctatum]

The following photo shows a really wonderful modern model of HMS Minerva, which shows the beauty of an fully rigged frigate.

It's my model and motivation for the build of HMS Winchelsea.

Picture from Country-Life, April 2011

 

HMS Winchelsea had a really long career in the Royal Navy and it's possible that the ship is looking similiar to the model of Minerva, after the great repair of 1780-1782. I don't know  if I will copper my model of if I will show an older condition of the ship.

 

@Chuck

You show in your log photos of the origininal model of HMS Winchelsea. I couldn't find a gallery with all photos. Is it possible to make a gallery? This makes it much easier to find this very informative pictures.

Edited January 1, 2021 by AnobiumPunctatum

[Chuck]

 

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Thank you Chuck👍

[scrubbyj427]

15 hours ago, AnobiumPunctatum said:

The following photo shows a really wonderful modern model of HMS Minerva, which shows the beauty of an fully rigged frigate.

It's my model and motivation for the build of HMS Winchelsea.

Picture from Country-Life, April 2011

 

HMS Winchelsea had a really long career in the Royal Navy and it's possible that the ship is looking similiar to the model of Minerva, after the great repair of 1780-1782. I don't know  if I will copper my model of if I will show an older condition of the ship.

 

@Chuck

You show in your log photos of the origininal model of HMS Winchelsea. I couldn't find a gallery with all photos. Is it possible to make a gallery? This makes it much easier to find this very informative pictures.

Wow! I really like that. Now I really want to model Minerva!

[AnobiumPunctatum]

@scrubbyj427

If you like this appearance you can reach this with our group build model. Winnie in her 1782 appearance should looking really similiar to Minerva.

So it's not necessary to dream from another model. Have fun with the group build.

[Jorge Diaz O]

 Hello, I have been on my HMS Triton at 1/48 for more than two years and I have just finished starting with the HMS Wenchelsea at 1/35 full scracht. Don't forget the Triton plans sir.

[wyz]

You bring up an interesting question Christian.  Exactly what did the Winchelsea look like later in her service.  When were major changes done to the ship, especially rigging and armament?  I would be very interested to hear what my fellow model builders know about this.  Perhaps Chuck might want to respond to this query.

[Chuck]

Its hard to say for sure but We are building her to a later appearance.  After much research and even reading the logbooks for winnie,  our plans reflect her appearance during the American Revolution.

 

Such things found in the logs indicate the moving of pumps up to the gundeck as well as the stove.  There are other minor changes as well.  The winnie was certainly copper plated but this is a personal preference thing.  This was in fact the first class of frigate ever copper plated. 
 

Based on log info 24 twelve pounders and 8 six pounders were used at this time.  Also 10 swivel guns.
 

Beyond that there are many inconsistencies in the source documentation but my plan shows her either during the revolution or shortly after.

 

Chuck

[AnobiumPunctatum]

I don't know the log. I am a really surprised that the ship had 24x and not 26x 12 pdrs.

 

Here are some further information, which I found in modern books (which are not primary sources):

 

I found in Robert Gardiner "The first frigates" for the armament (22/07/1782) of WInchelsea:

Quarterdeck: 4x 6pdr long guns; 6x 18pdr carronades

Forecastle: 2x 6pdr long guns; 2x 18pdr carronaeds.

 

Further gives the book the following information for the armament of the Niger class:

 

Design: 26x 12 pdrs (upper deck), 4x 6pdrs (quarterdeck) and 2x 6pdrs (fore deck)

 

Added by Admirality orders:

11/11/1756 12x 1/2pdr swiffels (quarterdeck and fore deck)

10/081779   6x 18pdr carronades (quarterdeck) and 2x 18pdr carronades (foredeck)

25/12/1779  4x 18pdr carronades (quarterdeck) and 2x 18pdr carronades (foredeck)

19/11/1794  4x 24pdr carronades (quarterdeck) and 2x 24pdr carronades (foredeck)

 

Winfield (British warships in the age of sail 1714-1792) confirms the information.

 

Winchelsea had a great repair form 03/1780 until 04/1782. During this repair the ship was copperd. There is an information which I don't understand in the moment ("re-rigged with 28-gun ship's top hamper") . I've never heard "top hamper".

 

Does anyone knows, what this means?

 

My plan was to show the ship with carronades. But with the information from Chuck, I have to think about this.

[Chuck]

I read through the ships logs to find that info...so I think it may be reliable.   What is interesting is that there were numerous notations of poor pump performance and  they had them moved in the Americas.   In addition.....the stove was moved also.   As far as Carronades...I had seen someting about two 18 pounder Carronades on the f'castle but could not confirm this.  My mistake earlier yes you are correct that there were 12 swivels.   That is in my notes.  Rather than muddy the waters I am going with what they had when the did some work on her in the north atlantic.  

 

Chuck

 

 

[AnobiumPunctatum]

1 hour ago, Chuck said:

Rather than muddy the waters I am going with what they had when the did some work on her in the north atlantic.  

 

You're right. And you use a primary source. That's the reason why I said that I will rethink my ideas. 

Can you give me a date for the logbook-entry? Was it fore of after the large repair from 1780/82?

[Chuck]

They were before....from 1779 - 1780....everything happened around the same time though which also makes it very hard.   One log book was from 1782.   I cant remember from which came what info however.  This was researched so long ago.  About 5 or six years ago.   So I am just trusting my findings from that time.  I actually hired a researcher who dug deep into the archives over in England.  He sent me his findings as he went because he couldnt take any documents from the buildings etc.   I do have some photos taken on his phone though if I can find them.  You can hire folks to do the research for you which is great.  I forget the guys name...he did work for many people.   He was like 100 back then though so I am not sure he is even alive today.  I think his last name was Salt if I remember correctly.  Its very expensive to to a deep dive into the research this way.   Which is why it angers me so much when folks takes such a care-free approach to piracy.   I spent big money on researching Winnie when I started.   Including having the original building contract photo-copied and sent to me.

 

Chuck

 

 

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Yesterday I picked up my package with the parts for the first four chapters at the German customs office. I am really impressed of the quality and what Chuck can do with his laser.

 

 

 

Now I am waiting for the extra timber I ordered by Chuck. And then the adventure can start.

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by AnobiumPunctatum

[wyz]

Tic Tic Tic Tic ....  Time, no doubt, can't go fast enough for you to get the extra timber.  While the wait can be taxing it gives you time to get your shop set up and for you to read through the build logs of your fellow model builders again.

Tom

[Matt D]

On 1/5/2021 at 2:29 PM, Chuck said:

He was like 100 back then though

Are you sure he wasn't a former crew member on the Winnie?

[AnobiumPunctatum]

@Chuck

 

It's good to start the build with a question. 🙄

I work with the lasercut version of the false keel, which  I've never used before. Today I put the false keel parts together (not glued now).

 

 

If I look at the lower edge of the components I can see a clear twist. The cutting edge of the laser is not perpendicular to the component.
In the instructions you wrote not to grind the laser char. I would have ground the 2/10 - 3/10mm now to get a right-angled edge to be able to glue the keel right-angled. Have I misunderstood you? I tried to make a photo, but it's really hard to see.

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by AnobiumPunctatum

[Chuck]

Just glue it together.  Dont remove any char because that will shorten the keel and affect the joint fitting.  Any space created can be filled with yellow glue to strengthen the joint.

 

 

[Ron Burns]

I did as Chuck instructed and I also liberally glued the joint. I did mine on a piece of tempered glass just to make sure it was a perfectly flat joint with a few weights on it as it cured. That false keel will stand on it's own when you get it together

[dvm27]

If you find the gap offensive you could also glue in a tapered spline of the same wood to fill the gap after the glued keel has dried. Leave it slightly proud of the surface and sand flush with yellow glue to blend. Make sure it's an easy slip fit so as not to exert pressure on the other side of the joint.

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Thanks  for your help. I glued the three parts together last night. Next is preparing the cut outs for the masts and glueing the stem parts together.

You see that the bulkheads are done with another laser. The stemparts are a dream. If I remember how much work it is with my scroll saw.