1/35 UH-1H Huey By lmagna

[Old Collingwood]

No problem lou,    glad to help.

 

OC.

[popeye the sailor]

actually.......what you did isn't a bad thing.   you could put the original door back in place,  and it would actually look like it could open.  you did a great job of cutting the door out.  if you did elect to use the resin door,  you could line it with card or plastic and sand it to fit.  you don't want to add too much thickness to it because it will put the rest of the interior out of scale.   PE rivets or thin strips of brass or something close to that would add the detail your looking for    you don't want me to do what you did........first off.......the door would be history!           blow torch anyone? 

[lmagna]

44 minutes ago, popeye the sailor said:

blow torch anyone? 

I was so upset last night when I discovered that he resin door was another "Will not fit" from the aftermarket parts that I was tempted to do just that!

 

Actually the best part for the lower inner part of the door would have been PE. That would have looked absolutely perfect.

[mtaylor]

Sorry to hear about the problems, Lou.  Looks like you can fix it, though.   I've come to the conclusion that many of the after market add-ons for aircraft just aren't worth it.  The ones from 1001Models seem to be crap.   

 

Love the video, Denis.   Not sure what type of chopper that is though.  Not a CH-34 as the one in he movie is jet turbine.  The 34 was a recip and made by Sikorsky.  See photo attached.  Ah... adding this... a quick google for "helicopter in full metal jacket" says this:  "The helicopters used were Wessex 60s, a civilian version of the Wessex HC. 2  and used as troop transports by the RAF."

 

[Roger Pellett]

Ok, I’m posting this here so that you aviation enthusiasts will be sure to find it.  Hopefully some eager beaver will not move it before you all see it.

 

I have 12 Leach Heritage of the Air Aviation prints.  The prints themselves are about 8in square with about a 1-1/2in border all around.  They are nicely done and are intended to be framed.  They belong in someone’s Man Cave, just not mine.  You can find examples for sale on eBay.  They cover the biplane era and are mostly military themed. They are rolled and were never used.

 

I would be happy to send them FREE to any of you that would like to have them, or if you don’t have room for all 12, I would be willing to split them up.

 

If interested, send me a PM.

 

Roger

[lmagna]

2 hours ago, mtaylor said:

Sorry to hear about the problems, Lou.  Looks like you can fix it, though.   I've come to the conclusion that many of the after market add-ons for aircraft just aren't worth it.  The ones from 1001Models seem to be crap. 

It is not so much that the parts are crap. In almost every case they are at least more detailed if not more accurate than the kit supplied part. I is just that in EVERY case so far, at least with this kit, where the aftermarket part is intended to replace the kit supplied part, the interface with the kit never matches! While the parts I am using now were ordered from 1001, they were not made by them, at least I don't think they are. They are listed as CMK/Czech Master Kits, and I assume are made in Czechoslovakia. This is my first time using resin aftermarket and I have no idea if this is normal or not.

 

I am not really an aviation enthusiast as such Roger, but there are some aircraft that interest me. I will send you a list, if these other guys have not cleaned you out already! I personally think I should pay shipping though. Postage is getting horrible! Thanks for making them available.

 

As for the "Save the door campaign," I think I may have carried it off, at least I am satisfied with the results and can live with it and not feel disgust at my blunder. So now I am back to where I was a couple of days ago and will start altering the lower part of the resin doors to fit into the kit doors instead of replacing them.

 

Here is the result of tonight's work:

The repaired door is on the right

From the work I have seen on this forum, especially in 1/350 scale ships, I know that others could do better but this is still OK for me.

 

So that is my two steps back for the day, tomorrow I will try for at least one step forward.

[Canute]

Lou, it's obviously a labor of love for you to spend the time correcting a kit. OC's strip styrene fix was a good idea, occasionally resorted to by yours truly to fix RR cars. Your door fit is fine.

Stop berating yourself and press on with the build. Most of us aren't as intimately familiar with the Huey as you are.

[lmagna]

29 minutes ago, Canute said:

Most of us aren't as intimately familiar with the Huey as you are.

I think that is part of the desire in all of this Ken. Just as if you were to build build an F-4 I am sure you would like to include any personal insights you have so that others would appreciate the fact that your model was historically accurate. This forum is founded on this concept. Accuracy through research and effort, limited only by skill. So I doubt I will be able to completely ignore some aspects of this model as I feel I want my research, (ME) to show if possible. I already know that I need to make, or try to make, at least two more bashes to the pilot cockpit over and above what is supplied in the kit, or to correct a detail I know is wrong and is within my abilities. (Or I hope it is). By the same token I know I will have limitations and I am finding that I also do not remember some detail or another. As an example I am having trouble remembering colors. What color was this or that. As an example I could have sworn that all of the instrument clusters on the Hueys we flew were black gauges on black panels. This kit supplies some beautiful photoetch detail that shows black gauges on a gray panel. I was able to locate only one photo in the few pictures I have left that shows part of the instrument panel that is not in shadow. And it is clearly black gauges on a gray panel! I would have argued that they had to be black on black prior to that picture. There are other things but I already tend to be all too wordy. I am sure you get the idea.

[popeye the sailor]

second that    ...and as I said,  after seeing the great job you did in cutting it out { aside from cutting the upper door jam........I would have done that  },  I was confused.  I'm sure they got beat up out there......a little battle damage would fit right in

[lmagna]

Thanks Denis

 

When I was cutting out the door it crossed my mind at some point that I should have just carved out the door and why I was carefully tracing around the frame and removing the door as a solid piece? This would have of course allowed me to cut the opening to match the replacement door more precisely but would not have preserved the original door and back tracking like I did would have been impossible. I suppose there are arguments for and against both methods.

 

1 hour ago, popeye the sailor said:

I'm sure they got beat up out there

You have no idea! Not so much "Battle damage" as just plain hard use and limited time for spit and polish. Duct tape, (100 MPH tape) and a paint brush with plenty of OD paint were our best friends. 

[Canute]

Oh, yeah, duct tape. We called it speed tape, because some of it was slapped on a jet that could get almost supersonic, on the deck.

 

One story: Maintainers put down a bed of epoxy to fix ab F-4 windscreen after a Canada goose went thru it at 420kts/480 MPH. The epoxy was still drying but the fixers said we could fly it home at 300kts/350 MPH or slower. Yours truly and a frontseater strap in and off we go. That's when frontseater tells me he's got a lunch date and we go home at about 500 MPH. After we land he disappears and leaves me with his gear and all the paperwork. Show up for maintenance post flight debrief and Super Sarge (an old buddy of mine) asks where the pilot was. I just told them who he was and he had a lunch date. We all laughed, cause this guy had a history of stunts like that.

[Old Collingwood]

Thats an excellent recovery  lou,    I thought it was the original (un cut)  image   - nothing wrong with that mate.

 

OC.

[lmagna]

Thanks OC

The uncut door is on the left. I suppose I should have sprayed it with primer so that they would have shown the same. Then it would be easier to see that the left door still looks much better. But it is OK and I don't think too many people would notice it is repaired who are not following this build. It will never be entered in a competition so there will be little need to examine it that close.  

[mtaylor]

Nice recovery, Lou.   Duck tape.  We used a lot of it also.   But then, a helicopter is just bunch of loose parts flying in formation.

 

I do understand the problem you're having.  The catch here is did the parts designer actually use the same model you're building?   There's other questions but it might just be quality control.  The parts I got (the guns) appear to be 3D printed and a least one sprue was removed before it set.

[lmagna]

57 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

But then, a helicopter is just bunch of loose parts flying in formation.

With the emphasis on LOOSE. Half of our time seemed to be tightening or checking for tight things that you would never expect to come loose, even things that were wired to stay tight! The last thing you wanted was those parts to loose their formation.

 

I think that all of the Hueys were built by Bell, but as there were so many made I think it is entirely possible that components were subbed out and possibly that could account for the differences. Add all of the years involved and varied hours flown and damage received and you are bound to have differences. And that would just be in the D and H models.! It has to be remembered that all of the Uh-1 variants shared parts in common  even the Cobra shared parts. As an addition we are only talking color here. Gray or black! That is just paint! What I was primarily saying above is that for some reason I only remembered the black on black.

[mtaylor]

Well... had a -53 named "Shudderin' ShiXXer", with an outhouse that had rotor blades for art.   I never figured it out why they vibrated so much.  The vibration didn't start until the rotor was spinning so I'm thinking that many choppers either the blades were perfectly tracked or the blades were "mismatched".  They were supposed to be pretty close in weight.  But, it might have been something else.... 

[lmagna]

I have no idea about how they did it on CH-53s but with Hueys the blades had a hollow tube with a threaded plug at the end of the blade. Inside the tube they had weights inserted to match the weight of a set of blades. I have no idea what the tolerances were but I suspect they were pretty close as when not moving the blades hung pretty evenly on the hub swivel. As the blade ran up to speed it would start fairly smoothly, go through a rpm range where it was pretty rough and then smooth out again at full rpm. Well smooth for a helicopter I suppose. We would pick up vibration, (and noise) when performing heavy turns or pushing the forward speed. Anything over 70 knots and a twenty or thirty degree bank was loud! You could tell a lot about what a Huey was doing just by the sound.

 

I understand that they have cured a lot of the noise with newer blade designs. I don't know about the vibration.   

[CapnMac82]

On 2/14/2020 at 9:19 PM, mtaylor said:

But then, a helicopter is just bunch of loose parts flying in formation.

Helicopters don't actually fly--they are just so ugly the the ground repels them

[lmagna]

1 minute ago, CapnMac82 said:

Helicopters don't actually fly--they are just so ugly the the ground repels them

I thought I had heard all of the helicopter slander over the years but THAT ONE is one is new to me!

[Old Collingwood]

I think heli flying is an art form  (anyone tried R/C  heli  flying  - really difficult)

 

OC.

[CapnMac82]

17 minutes ago, lmagna said:

I thought I had heard all of the helicopter slander over the years but THAT ONE is one is new to me

Heard it from a buddy of mine, a USMC helo IP

[mtaylor]

52 minutes ago, CapnMac82 said:

Helicopters don't actually fly--they are just so ugly the the ground repels them

I hadn't heard that one either, but it's probably true.

[CDW]

43 minutes ago, Old Collingwood said:

I think heli flying is an art form  (anyone tried R/C  heli  flying  - really difficult)

 

OC.

Yes, I did in the early 2000's, owned several different helicopters trying to master flight. 99% of the time, there are no "minor" RC helicopter crashes. The slightest rotor blade ground strike does major damage and misalignment of parts that take hours to replace and adjust. Very expensive to repair as well.

It's so easy to become disoriented as control becomes completely different when tail out or tail in. Generally, orientation is tail in, as if one were sitting in the cockpit. When the helicopter turns and heads toward you (tail out), control is then reversed so to speak as right becomes left and left becomes right. In addition, it's hard to tell how the tail is oriented once the helicopter gets a couple hundred feet out. Last, an RC model helicopter can hurt you or spectators badly, even death. Those blades turn so fast with so much mass, they can cut you open like a buzz saw.

[lmagna]

1 hour ago, CDW said:

The slightest rotor blade ground strike does major damage

The same can be said of the real thing. Ground strikes with either rotor are considered No Nos.

[BETAQDAVE]

13 hours ago, CDW said:

Those blades turn so fast with so much mass, they can cut you open like a buzz saw.

    Don't forget the decapitation of Combat series actor Vic Morrow during filming from a real helicopter!

[lmagna]

More importantly and at least to me sadder the same thing happened to the seven year old girl and the six year old boy was crushed. All because the director wanted to set off large explosives as close to the helicopter as possible even after being told that it was dangerous to the helicopter. They literally blew the helicopter out of the air, taking the tail rotor off completely in the explosion! Helicopters do not fly well without tail rotors at low forward speeds. 

 

I also read somewhere later that Vic Morrow saw what was going to happen and tried to save the kids but without success. VERY sad story with a very bad ending like all to many Hollywood events it seems. Loss in combat is somehow expected and therefore accepted for some reason. Losses like this for the sake of a movie, especially when so many safeguards were bypassed is totally unacceptable. 

Edited February 17, 2020 by lmagna

[popeye the sailor]

I never knew that.........had to look it up.   yea....that's pretty sad....I watched Combat,  as well as the Rat Patrol regularly.

[Canute]

Same here. My old man, who toured across France, thru Germany to Czechoslovakia with 3rd Army, said Combat was a heck of a lot more authentic for his money. He liked the movie Patton, but said the General spoke with a high squeaky voice.

[mtaylor]

No matter how big the chopper might be, it's still way more fragile than a fixed wing aircraft. 

 

As I recall, that director took a huge hit in the resulting lawsuits as the insurance companies for the studio and the film wouldn't go any where near it.

[lmagna]

Well I suppose it is time to post the next feeble efforts in the "Save The Model Chopper" campaign. As you may remember in the last episode I was able to get a passable result in reinstalling the door that should have not been removed in the first place. Having achieved passable results I went about doing it in the way that it should have been done in the first place.

 

First I removed the window frames from the aftermarket doors. Then I spend quite some time thinning down the outer thickness trying to maintain the inner door shape. In after thought it was probably not necessary to use this much care, in fact it probably would have been just as good to have cut two rectangular sheets and just glued them into place. It turns out that you cannot see the door jams anyway. After getting the inner door panels mated and glued in it was time to address the next, and even more glaring omission inside the cabin.

 

There is a square hollow column located just to the rear of the pilots doors. I am not certain how thick it is but it is several inches. It is obviously a reinforcement between the bottom and top of the helicopter kind of like the roof column in a four door car between the front and back doors. This part is missing entirely and if one is to have the cargo doors open like I am then it is a VERY noticeable item, at least to me. 

 

So I cut some thick plastic scrap I had laying around and kind of filed and shaped until it seemed to fit. I am not completely happy with the results as I think I may not have gone thick enough. But I was worried about interfering with the pilot's seats and the armor I still need to install. But when loosely placing the seats it appears that I may have been a little conservative and could have made them a little thicker. 

 

So here is  some photographic evidence that someone of questionable talents has in fact been making some progress.

 

The left and right doors with panels and columns. The left door that had been removed is on the right.

The cabin interior with the seats and dash just hand placed into position for reference.

So that is about it for now. At some point I am going to have to decide how much is enough. There are so many details missing and every time I get one done I feel compelled to correct or add another. At this rate I would never get this thing done! I still think it is a shame that much of this is not already present though. It's not like Huey's are an obscure aircraft that would be hard to research and detail out at this scale.

Edited February 18, 2020 by lmagna