US Brig Syren by WalrusGuy - FINISHED - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64 - Second wooden ship build

[WalrusGuy]

2 hours ago, Justin P. said:

20 of them if you have to!   

 

Don't know if I have the patience to make more than one per side 😂. But yeah I 100% agree that this detail is one that will take time but is worth the effort. Let's see how the first attempt turns out. I'll probably ask for opinions again before installing it on the hull or making a second batch. 

 

2 hours ago, Overworked724 said:

I think it's a completely different skill set.  If you take time to learn it, you can't un learn it...and you'll only get better.  What a fun challenge!!  Besides, do you really want to slap those metal monstrosities on the side of your ship?  LOL. Looks great!  (Already better than the metal pieces.)

It did seem like fun only until I realized how small of a scale it actually is. I think I've spent more time looking for a dropped piece than actually working on it 😄 😅 

Anyways thanks for the compliment! I continued to work on it after reading yours and Justin's comments.

 

I painted the middle piece black and glued on the frame pieces. The rest of the pieces are still dry fitted: 

 

 

 

I'll next work on the white window frames then the carvings. I'll probably do an awful job at the carvings but I'll give it a shot. 

[Gahm]

Your first try already looks pretty good. However, to have a chance to get the results you want to have you need to get away from bass wood and switch to a firmer type of wood, which is better suited for carving and small precision work. Pear or boxwood are well suited for this. It will make your life much easier in achieving good results 😉

 

Thomas 

[Voyageur]

It looks like you've got the dimensions down pretty well. I'd say your off to a great start on these. I'm very interested to see you continue!

[WalrusGuy]

1 hour ago, Gahm said:

Your first try already looks pretty good. However, to have a chance to get the results you want to have you need to get away from bass wood and switch to a firmer type of wood, which is better suited for carving and small precision work. Pear or boxwood are well suited for this. It will make your life much easier in achieving good results 😉

 

Thomas 

Thanks Thomas! I'm not sure where to get those types of wood in Canada, but will look around before proceeding. Just verifying, did you use bass wood for your underlying structure then pear wood for the carvings, frames and tiles? I'm thinking of doing something similar if I happen to find some pear wood or box wood. 

 

40 minutes ago, Voyageur said:

It looks like you've got the dimensions down pretty well. I'd say your off to a great start on these. I'm very interested to see you continue!

Thanks Voyageur! 

[Edwardkenway]

Alaskan yellow Cedar is apparently good for carving, I think Chuck has used it for that purpose,  but I could be mistaken. 

He does stock it though, quite reasonably priced as well. (I'm not affiliated with Syren Ship Model Company) Just my two pennies worth. 

[WalrusGuy]

7 hours ago, Edwardkenway said:

Alaskan yellow Cedar is apparently good for carving, I think Chuck has used it for that purpose,  but I could be mistaken. 

He does stock it though, quite reasonably priced as well. (I'm not affiliated with Syren Ship Model Company) Just my two pennies worth. 

Thanks for the suggestion! I will first look if I can find something locally before ordering some sheets. Also I am looking for some scrap pieces/strips of those wood species since that is what I have been using so far with basswood 😄.

[WalrusGuy]

Wanted to do some practice with the basswood as I still search for better wood species. If the practice version turns out somewhat decent (ie. better than the castings) I may just end up using them 😄

 

I completed making the window frames. The other parts are still dry fitted. I think I will glue them after finishing the details in each part.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A shot from a bit further away:

 

 

Bonus photo (if the others were not enough 😄) - The window section by itself:

 

I'll work on the starboard structure next before making the roof tiles. I guess its just an excuse to delay that step 😅. I think it also helps in seeing if each piece is symmetric to the other side's pieces at this stage.

[Justin P.]

Looks like a really great start!   I imagine working with those fiddly bits is frustrating, ha.   I think your approach of working with each element like a layer cake is probably optimal for me too - I'd probably do the same.  I think even as is they are much better than the castings.   

[Overworked724]

Hey...just thinking outside the box(wood)...the kit comes with some pieces laser cut in boxwood I believe. If you kept the fragments, I’m sure you could layer them to give you a good foundation for carving. Kind of like the ship’s boat.  You could just layer the fragments and cut out the block size you need for carving. 
 

👍🏽

[Justin P.]

29 minutes ago, Overworked724 said:

Hey...just thinking outside the box(wood)...the kit comes with some pieces laser cut in boxwood I believe. If you kept the fragments, I’m sure you could layer them to give you a good foundation for carving. Kind of like the ship’s boat.  You could just layer the fragments and cut out the block size you need for carving. 

Which parts are those?   My list says basswood unless otherwise noted and the only thing "otherwise noted" is plywood.   Maybe I have the amateur version, lol!

[WalrusGuy]

1 hour ago, Justin P. said:

Looks like a really great start!   I imagine working with those fiddly bits is frustrating, ha.   I think your approach of working with each element like a layer cake is probably optimal for me too - I'd probably do the same.  I think even as is they are much better than the castings.   

Never thought of it that way, I guess you can think of each layer as a project upon itself.

 

1 hour ago, Overworked724 said:

Hey...just thinking outside the box(wood)...the kit comes with some pieces laser cut in boxwood I believe. If you kept the fragments, I’m sure you could layer them to give you a good foundation for carving. Kind of like the ship’s boat.  You could just layer the fragments and cut out the block size you need for carving. 
 

👍🏽

 

1 hour ago, Justin P. said:

Which parts are those?   My list says basswood unless otherwise noted and the only thing "otherwise noted" is plywood.   Maybe I have the amateur version, lol!

Got very excited until I also checked my parts list, it says the same.. Maybe they are boxwood in disguise 😄? 

[Overworked724]

Hmmm. Might be wrong, but I thought stem and stern pieces were boxwood. 🤔 (And I am wrong quite often...so apologies if I gave faulty info!!!)

[Overworked724]

My bad... 😫 I checked as well. No boxwood. Sorry about that. 
 

On the bright side, your work in basswood (as crappy as basswood can be) is awesome. 👍🏽

[Gahm]

Yes, you are right. I used basswood only for the underlying structure and for the two moldings (each assembled out of 2 thinned down sheets of basswood). All other parts I made out of pear wood except the window frames. Those were assembled from little birch veneer pieces to keep them uniformly thin (thickness of the veneer). Btw, the easiest way to get your hands on the wood of your choice is through the internet (for example  https://www.dlumberyard.com/wood.html). 

 

Thomas

[WalrusGuy]

13 hours ago, Overworked724 said:

My bad... 😫 I checked as well. No boxwood. Sorry about that. 
 

On the bright side, your work in basswood (as crappy as basswood can be) is awesome. 👍🏽

No worries!! No need to apologize! Thinking of it, I wish Model Shipways offered an upgraded kit with better quarter badges and different wood options.

 

6 hours ago, Gahm said:

Yes, you are right. I used basswood only for the underlying structure and for the two moldings (each assembled out of 2 thinned down sheets of basswood). All other parts I made out of pear wood except the window frames. Those were assembled from little birch veneer pieces to keep them uniformly thin (thickness of the veneer). Btw, the easiest way to get your hands on the wood of your choice is through the internet (for example  https://www.dlumberyard.com/wood.html). 

 

Thomas

Thanks Thomas, I might be purchasing some pear wood from that site after trying out some carvings with the basswood. Thanks again for the website!

 

Also, forgot to mention, for the window frames I used leftover wood from my Virginia kit, I think it is applewood? Not too sure, but they are the very thin lightly colored strips that have almost parallel grains, so I can cut straight lines easily with a hobby knife.

[WalrusGuy]

The starboard quarter badge is now on par (progress wise) with the port side badge. The starboard middle window frames are ever-so-slightly wider than the other side (probably less than 0.2mm thicker), and it is a bit apparent, espicially in photos and less in person. I am thinking when they are installed on each side of the hull, the difference in thickness will be even much less noticeable. If I am still bothered by it when I finish up with the badges I will just deconstruct (as Dirk says) and redo it. I don't really feel like doing that since each window takes about 20-40 mins to do... (I'm a very slow builder lol). 

 

 

Now on to the dreaded roof tiles. I'll try using basswood to see how it treats me. If it looks horrendous I will order some pear wood from The Lumberyard. I will probably order the thinnest 2" wide sheets they have, I think it is 1/16", but will also inquire if they have 1/32" available.

 

On a side note, the supplied quarter badges really need to be improved upon. I noticed the differences between each side when I worked on the starboard quarter badge. They are not even symmetric with each other! The height of one of them is longer than the other and the roof shapes are also different, where one side's roof is slanting more than the other. I think even the angles of slope are slightly different. I think you can see this in the above image. The carvings also differ from each other (the bottom flower pattern and the roof carvings). Wish they improved this part of the kit, it is an awesome kit with great instructions and design (thanks Chuck!), but this one part the manufacturer did not do so well. I know this has been discussed already countless times on other build logs, but I wanted to express my disappointment as well. I really hope my scratch built ones turn out better than the castings as I don't want to use them, unless I really have to...

[Edwardkenway]

You've done yourself proud with those quarter badges,  they look much, much better than the supplied castings. 

Just a thought,  but would it be possible to etch the roof tile pattern onto the wood rather than make them as a separate  piece or maybe use a modelling putty for them and also the other details?

[WalrusGuy]

4 hours ago, Edwardkenway said:

You've done yourself proud with those quarter badges,  they look much, much better than the supplied castings. 

Just a thought,  but would it be possible to etch the roof tile pattern onto the wood rather than make them as a separate  piece or maybe use a modelling putty for them and also the other details?

Thanks for the compliment and tips! I might try that but I'm not sure how good I'll be with etching it on the wood. It won't hurt to practice a bit. I'll also try the putty if I can find a similar color to the basswood somewhere. 

[WalrusGuy]

Tried a bit of carving with basswood. I now fully understand some of the frustration of miniature carving with this wood, but I think it's doable. Here is my first attempt: 

 

 

Contrary to my precious post, I am thinking of redoing the windows to make the frames thinner (as per Chuck's advice). Might as well spend more time in this stage, especially since I am trying to improve the quality from the castings. 

 

For my next post I will have the window layer redone, and finished the rest of carvings for the window layer. Notice how I'm still delaying the tiles 😅 

[NovaStorm]

Judging by where you are now you will have no problem doing the tiles no comparison to the castings! I am not sure why they even put them in the kit?

You will be caught up to me soon at the rate your going and thanks for doing the quarters ahead of me It is one item I have been putting off.

[Retired guy]

On 6/24/2020 at 6:08 AM, WalrusGuy said:

Thanks Thomas! I'm not sure where to get those types of wood in Canada, but will look around before proceeding. Just verifying, did you use bass wood for your underlying structure then pear wood for the carvings, frames and tiles? I'm thinking of doing something similar if I happen to find some pear wood or box wood. 

 

Thanks Voyageur! 

 

Hi Wally I see you live in Edmonton have you tried Black Forest Wood Company in Calgary have bought a lot of wood from them in the past.

Great start on carving way better than white metal castings 👍

 

Regards

Richard 

[WalrusGuy]

12 hours ago, Retired guy said:

 

Hi Wally I see you live in Edmonton have you tried Black Forest Wood Company in Calgary have bought a lot of wood from them in the past.

Great start on carving way better than white metal castings 👍

 

Regards

Richard 

Thanks Richard!! I've emailed them to see if they have pear wood or similar. Let's see what they say.. 

 

14 hours ago, NovaStorm said:

Judging by where you are now you will have no problem doing the tiles no comparison to the castings! I am not sure why they even put them in the kit?

You will be caught up to me soon at the rate your going and thanks for doing the quarters ahead of me It is one item I have been putting off.

I also wanted to delay this step but also wanted to get it out of the way before attempting the fun stuff, so I decided pulled the band-aid quick and get it over with (although progress with this is going slow 😅)

 

Also, here are some photos of what I did to carve the window frame layer, in case it helps with yours, or anyone else's quarter badge. I forgot to take these photos before, but remembered now since I am making another set of window frames:

 

1) I first cut out the general shape (traced lines from the plan) and drew in some lines of where the windows will be located

 

2) Then, on the other face, I drew a connecting line from the previous line to the respective corner:

 

3) I sanded the corner starting on the edge until I reached the lines I drew:

 

As for the roof, a similar process is done but with curves. I traced a partial circle on the top, and the plan's roof silhouette on the side and sanded the curve from there. You should get a slanted roof with the correct angles. The bottom is more tricky where I just free-handed it , and that's why it does not look as good as the roof 😅. I got the general badge profile from Chuck's post in Dirk's build log here. I have also attached the quarter badge profiles in this post as it was great use to me.

qbadges.pdf

 

Here are some photos if it helps explain my steps:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hope this is of some use!

[WalrusGuy]

I made the window frames thinner and also done the carvings for that layer. The thinner window frames look way more sleeker and crisp than the ones I had before, but took longer to glue them in place because they were harder to grip with the tweezers. What do you guys think of the side carvings? They are still basswood. Are they worth keeping or should I discard them and still order some pear wood instead?

 

The only reason I am reluctant to get pear wood is the wait time... Shipping might take a few weeks coming from the US. I really want to get this part of the build done since it seems like I am taking forever! I know if I take a very long break from it now I won't have the motivation to come back to finish it off lol!  The Calgary guys have not emailed back to me so I might give them a call to ask if they stock it. I am presuming it will only take them a couple of days to deliver to Edmonton, but I will also check this. If they have it in stock I will definitely order it! And in the meantime I am also keeping an eye out on local stores if I can just go and pick them up. This would be the best, but least likely option 😥

 

 

 

 

 

[niwotwill]

Your carved pieces look much better than the kit cast ones, keep going. Looking at the cast galleys it is apparent that they are not even the same as sections are missing from each in different locations. I'm going to carve mine as my cast cast ones look as bad as yours. I can only hope the my first carving looks as good as yours. My two cents is wait for the wood and treat the carvings as a separate project and move on with the build.

 

They look good

 

Will  

[RichardG]

47 minutes ago, niwotwill said:

My two cents is wait for the wood and treat the carvings as a separate project and move on with the build.

I'm busy at the moment replacing the walnut I used for skylights and doors with pear. It involved a little bit of demolition but the results look a lot better. For me, I knew I would regret if I didn't do this, it would be a niggling at me all the time.

 

Will's suggestion is a good one and your carving skills are obviously up to the task. 

 

 

[WalrusGuy]

1 hour ago, niwotwill said:

Your carved pieces look much better than the kit cast ones, keep going. Looking at the cast galleys it is apparent that they are not even the same as sections are missing from each in different locations. I'm going to carve mine as my cast cast ones look as bad as yours. I can only hope the my first carving looks as good as yours. My two cents is wait for the wood and treat the carvings as a separate project and move on with the build.

 

They look good

 

Will  

 

56 minutes ago, RichardG said:

I'm busy at the moment replacing the walnut I used for skylights and doors with pear. It involved a little bit of demolition but the results look a lot better. For me, I knew I would regret if I didn't do this, it would be a niggling at me all the time.

 

Will's suggestion is a good one and your carving skills are obviously up to the task. 

 

 

Thanks Will and Richard. I should not be so impatient on finishing this step.

 

Just gave Black Forest Wood Company a call and they don't store boxwood or pear wood, so an email was dispatched to The Lumberyard to inquire if they stock the 1/8", 1/16" and 1/32" thick pear wood sheets. I am not sure on which sizes I will need, but wouldn't hurt to have extra wood for any other project or carvings I may have to do. I'll carry on with the rest of the hull details in the meantime.

 

Also the basswood was good practice for the carving. It taught me to be extra gentle and careful not to split the wood. I am really looking forward to get the pear wood if Lumberyard has them. 

[Retired guy]

That's a shame Wally I bought Pear, Cherry, Pau Amarillo, Castello Boxwood and Ebony could have been a few years back now, wonder why they stopped selling it 🤔.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So glad I bought when I did,  I do hope you find some.

 

Regards

Richard 

[WalrusGuy]

Good news! I can resume working on the quarter badges now. 

 

I found a local hardwood store that sells cherry (wood slabs), and the owner was more than happy to saw out a couple of ~1/8" thick sheets from it. Really appreciated this since I don't think many would go out of their way to do something like this. Finding a local store meant that I didn't need to order from out of town and pay the hefty shipping costs and I could also see exactly what I was getting. Here are the wood sheets:

 

 

The burnt saw marks can be easily sanded off, but the wood looks really clean. Right off the bat it already feels better than basswood.

 

I know it's not pear or boxwood, but I think it would be much more workable than basswood. Looking forward to working with it! I will also try carving out the stern carvings, hope it turns out decent... Otherwise I'll use the metal castings since they are not bad (ie. much better than the quality of the metal quarter badges).

 

I also bought some basswood 1/4" and 3/8" sheets which I will use to make a better looking cradle than the one the Syren is currently sitting on. 

 

P.S. progress will start to slow down since I will start grad school soon... Lots of things to prepare for before I start in a few months..

[Retired guy]

Hi Wally you can get some Swiss Pear at A&M wood specialty in Cambridge Ontario   and Boxwood And pear at Gilmer wood in Portland US

 

Regards

Richard

[WalrusGuy]

32 minutes ago, Retired guy said:

Hi Wally you can get some Swiss Pear at A&M wood specialty in Cambridge Ontario   and Boxwood And pear at Gilmer wood in Portland US

 

Regards

Richard

 

Thanks for the suggestions Richard! Thing is, it becomes very pricey when shipping wood to Alberta, and I can't justify spending over the price of wood on shipping. I inquired some places in Canada and the price of a couple of sheets of wood including shipping came to over $50 CAD.... From the US it was even more...

I'll see how the cherry treats me, otherwise I'll need to bite the bullet and get other wood species from the places you mentioned... Also I don't own equipment to mill the wood, some places I inquired were charging $120 CAD for material and milling for two 2"x24" sheets!! 😲

 

Thanks again for the stores, I'll keep them in mind if I need to order something.. It was hard to find such stores when I was searching for them.