HM Cutter Alert by Thukydides - FINISHED - Vanguard Models - 1:64 - first build

[Thukydides]

Time for another minor update. I am making faster progress than I thought and have all the breaching ropes done. I then attached all the deck fittings as the gun tackle will be done on a jig and then just hooked in so I am not as worried about things getting in the way.

[Ronald-V]

That's a stunning model! 👍

[CiscoH]

Beautiful Thukydides!

[Theodosius]

This is the most impressive Alert I have seen so far!

[Thukydides]

Log #45: Blocks for the Gun Tackle

Thanks to everyone who has stopped by. I am beginning to understand why some people hate rigging the guns. Even for a ship as small as Alert I need to prep 48 very tiny blocks :). That being said I really do prefer the look of cannons that have been rigged and so having done a few test version, I have moved into mass production.

 

Step 1 is to get the block, hook and cut off a 30mm piece of 0.25mm rope. I experimented a bit and found that any less than 30mm made life very hard.

I then made a small knot in the rope (this picture is an older one, I forgot to take a picture of this step). I found doing the knot and then pulling it tight around the block was easier than trying to do the knot afterwards.

I then pulled the knot mostly closed, but left a small gap. Into this I inserted the end of the gun tackle. A small dot of super glue was added with a sewing pin and then I pulled the knot tight.

Once this dried I used some matt varnish and secured the end of the gun tackle to itself. I did not attempt to do more than a cursory imitation of a splice as this will all be hidden once the tackle is on the model.

Then with the line secure I flipped the block over and slipped the hook onto one of the two ends of the rope running around the block. At this time I also used a small dot of super glue to secure the knot on the top of the block.

Then using tweezers I inserted the other end of the rope into the hook from the opposite side. Once it was through the hook I looped it through the gap at the bottom to make another knot.

Another small dot of super glue was applied to the inside of the hook and the knot was bulled tight. Once dry I also covered all the knots with varnish both to hide the super glue shine and also to make sure that everything was secure.

Then into the bag with the other finished blocks. Half of them have the gun tackle attached and the other half do not. The process for those that don’t is pretty much the same, just the first few steps are a bit easier.

 

I still need to cut off the ends and add a little bit of seizing, but I don’t like doing this until I am sure everything is fully dry so I will wait till I have them all done before doing this step.

 

Seven done, fourty-one to go.

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Thukydides

[Quimp Slattery]

21 hours ago, Thukydides said:

Seven done, fourty-one to go.

My cutter also has ten guns but having studied this post there’s a strong possibility that six or more have been taken ashore for routine maintenance. 
 

That’s fine work you are doing. I’m really looking forward to seeing your rigging. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Jack-in-the-Blue
Typo

[Thukydides]

I have been slowly picking away at the blocks and now have all the single blocks with the gun tackle ropes attached to them done.

Now just 20 more double blocks to be done. They should take less time as I am much faster at doing these than when I started and not having to attach the rope does speed things up a bit.

[Quimp Slattery]

3 hours ago, Thukydides said:

I am much faster at doing these than when I started

That not a surprise given the practice that you’re getting. 🙂

 

Every model genre seems to have tasks like this one. They can be soul crushing or a pleasant break from thinking. It all depends on the modeller’s state of mind. I hope you are enjoying the meditation. 
 

p.s. My book arrived. 🙂

[Thukydides]

6 hours ago, Jack-in-the-Blue said:

I hope you are enjoying the meditation. 

Tying ropes to endless tiny blocks is maybe not my favorite activity, but it is part of the process. I have always enjoyed making the prototype version more than mass production. This is particularly true in that the best way to produce a consistent result once you have your process down is to do each step in sequence to a whole bunch of blocks at once (cut all the gun tackle ropes then cut all the ropes for wrapping round the block, then do the loops for all the gun tackle ropes etc...). This can get a bit boring as you don't actually produce anything until you get the entire batch done.

 

However I find this also keeps me motivated as I don't want to get up from the desk until the whole batch is finished. If I did them each one at a time I am tempted to stop after doing 2 or 3 and I also produce them much more slowly. So I just throw a podcast on in the background and pick away it. I suspect I can probably get the rest of the blocks done in two more sessions (2 sets of 10). Then I can move on to the more interesting part of the gun tackle.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Thukydides

[allanyed]

On 9/13/2023 at 9:24 AM, Thukydides said:

Tying ropes to endless tiny blocks is maybe not my favorite activity

You could have a lot of company as that is maybe why the master model builders of the 17th and 18th centuries did not always include ordnance of any kind and when they did, rigging the cannon was often left off. 😀

 

Your photo shows double and single blocks so I was curious if these are all for the cannon?   Adrian Caruana  points out in his book, The History of English Sea Ordnance Volume II page 386, only 32 pounders and larger had a single and double block set up for both the train and running out tackle.   All other calibers had only single blocks.  I would not be surprised if there were exceptions, as is often the case for us,  for other large calibers such as the 24s to have a single and double.    

 

Allan

Edited September 16, 2023 by allanyed

[Quimp Slattery]

2 hours ago, allanyed said:

You could have a lot of company as that is maybe why the master model builders of the 17th and 18th centuries did not always include ordnance of any kind and when they did, rigging the cannon was often left off. 😀

 

That is very useful information! 👍

[Thukydides]

3 hours ago, allanyed said:

Your photo shows double and single blocks so I was curious if these are all for the cannon?   Adrian Caruana he points out in his book, The History of English Sea Ordnance Volume II page 386, only 32 pounders and larger had a single and double block set up for both the train and running out tackle.   All other calibers had only single blocks.  I would not be surprised if there were exceptions, as is often the case for us,  for other large calibers such as the 24s to have a single and double.    

I was planning to discuss this in my upcoming post when I start rigging the gun tackle. Basically there was a post I made a long time ago asking about this and the results were inconclusive. Goodwin depicts the double blocks in the aots book on alert, but as you pointed out caruna seems to contradict this. Lavery also mentions the blocks, but only makes vague statements.

 

On the balance is suspect single blocks were likely used, but as I had already acquired the double blocks, I decided to go with Goodwin.

 

Also I like the look of the double blocks a bit better and since this build is a bit of a compromise between accuracy and aesthetic (for example the decorations I painted are highly unlikely to have been on the actual ship), I figured it wasn't too big of a sin.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Thukydides

[Gregory]

The AOTS Blandford also shows double + single for 6 pounders.  I guess Goodwin didn't read Caruana.😁

Lavery in " The Arming and Fitting, etc... " .. without regard to caliber.

Takakjian  in AOTS 'Essex'  shows double + single for 12 pounder.

 

Was Caruana's data part of the establishments?

Did armorers always follow this practice?

 

Double + single has become a modeling convention, particularly with kits, and most builders will never be shown anything to the contrary until after they have done all the work. ( ....hours of fiddly work. )

 

I agree with Thukydides that the aesthetics come into play with ship models, in many areas that are contrary to contemporary full size practice.

 

With that said,  Thukydides,  your Alert sets a high standard in ship modeling.

I apologize if I have cluttered up your log with this distraction.

[Thukydides]

27 minutes ago, Gregory said:

With that said,  Thukydides,  your Alert sets a high standard in ship modeling.

I apologize if I have cluttered up your log with this distraction.

I appreciate the compliment, and I don't feel that this is a distraction, it is a discussion of an issue I am currently working through and even though in this case it is ultimately too late to change course (unless I want to do all the blocks over again), I consider it all useful information for the next model. I appreciate that both you and @allanyed took the time to stop by and give this some thought. That being said, your thoughts largely mirror mine and I was going to summarize pretty much what you just said on my next log (my internal notes look very much like this post)

 

To be fair in this case I went into this with eyes wide open, I knew the evidence was inconclusive (though if I had to guess I suspect that for something as small as a 6lb gun two singles is more likely) before I started tying any of the blocks. Part of this relates to the fact that when I started this build I had not planned on deviating much from the kit arrangement and so there are already a plethora of minor "inaccuracies" from earlier in the build. I decided that I would continue down this path (which to be honest I am not sure is actually an inaccuracy) as at least a number of people seem to thing that the double plus single could have been a thing.

 

Ultimately the issue is that in all of these cases (Caruna included as far as I can tell, I don't own that book) there is no reference to what primary source was used to inform these specific statements. So we just have to rely on whether we trust that they have indeed the knowledge to back up these things. This doesn't mean we blindly trust them (I have found instances of what I suspect are inaccuracies in another AOTS book I have been looking at for a potential future build), but in some cases if there is not a lot of primary evidence it is hard to know what is the correct answer.

 

Edit: if anyone is interested in the original discussion I referenced that was had a while back you can find it towards the end of this thread: 

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Thukydides

[Thukydides]

Log #46: Blocks for the Gun Tackle Continued

I have finally completed tying all the gun tackle blocks. I put a fresh blade on my craft knife and carefully cut off the loose ends.

You may notice that I am using a combination of one double and one single block for the gun tackle. I had planned to discuss this in this log entry, but as it was pretty much covered over the last few post I suggest reading through those if you are interested in the reasoning.

 

To hide the knots and give the impression that it was secured by seizing, I wrapped some thread around the gap between the block and the hook. This was accomplished by first wrapping the string around three times.

I then tied a knot to hold it all in place (sorry for the slightly out of focus picture, it is hard to do this while holding the knot in such a way that you can see).

Once this was tied off I added a small spot of super glue to hold everything in place. When this had all dried I cut off the ends and gave the whole area a coat of varnish to make sure it wouldn’t come loose. The process worked better for some blocks than others, but since you can hardly see these once they are on the model I am going to say it is good enough.

In retrospect I think I needed a finer thread, I may look into silk thread for when I do the rigging as I have noticed some people mentioning they used it and the results do seem to look nice.

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Thukydides

[Quimp Slattery]

They certainly are tiny. I think you deserve much credit for carrying out such a complicated sequence, so many times, with such good results. 

[jpalmer1970]

I find flytying thread to be very useful for this sort of task. There is lots of choice of colour and thickness and it is pretty easily available from online fishing stores. Size 8/0 or thinner seems pretty good for this scale. Guterman Mara thread is also useful too.

[Thukydides]

Thanks to everyone for stopping by. I am really getting close to having all the deck fittings done now and I am looking forward to getting started on the mainmast and the shrouds. If for nothing else i am glad I rigged the guns for the practice it has given me with rigging materials before I get to the stuff that people are really going to notice.

 

22 hours ago, jpalmer1970 said:

I find flytying thread to be very useful for this sort of task. There is lots of choice of colour and thickness and it is pretty easily available from online fishing stores. Size 8/0 or thinner seems pretty good for this scale. Guterman Mara thread is also useful too.

The thread I was using is Mara, I have ordered some fly tying thread and will see if that goes better for some of these smaller details. I suspect Mara will be fine for most of the rigging as the rope I will be seizing is much larger. But in this case where I am only using .25mm rope for the gun tackle, it proved a little over sized.

 

On 9/17/2023 at 5:47 PM, Jack-in-the-Blue said:

They certainly are tiny. I think you deserve much credit for carrying out such a complicated sequence, so many times, with such good results. 

Thanks, to be honest it gets easier the more times you do it. The problem with doing it in sequence is it is not very exciting :).

 

[Thukydides]

 

Log #47: The Gun Tackle

I have finally completed tying all the gun tackle blocks. So now it is time to get started on the tackle itself.

 

A while back I constructed a jig to hold a cannon in and used it to rig a single side of the gun.

I had originally planned to use this jig to do all of the tackle, but I realized that this made matters unnecessarily complicated. Having made one gun tackle I then used it to make a jig that I could use to mass produce them. I started the process by running the rope through the blocks and then sliding the hooks onto the two pins.

Then I wrapped the rope around and used a tiny touch of super glue to hold it in place.

I then finished the wrapping again using a small dot of super glue to hold things together at the end. Notice in this picture I also have a second pin at a shorter distance. This is to do the slightly shorter tackles which hook onto the eyebolts that are attached to the shot racks.

I then used the four pins to form the rope coil. This is held in place by a few strategically placed dots of glue. Then once the coil is formed I cover it all in matt varnish to hold it together. In the picture below you can see the rope looks wet because the varnish has not yet dried.

Once everything is dry I pop it off the pins.

I then hook the tackle onto the cannon and use small dots of super glue to hold the rope coil in the correct place. Everything is then given a thin coat of diluted matt varnish to take the shine off of it and hold it secure. Once it is dry I need to check for any shiny spots from the super glue and use matt varnish to get rid of them. In the picture below you can see that not everything is perfectly dry and there are a few spots I will have to deal with.

[jpalmer1970]

Great work - using jigs like that really helps make everything look consistent which adds a great deal of professionalism to the build.

[Quimp Slattery]

4 hours ago, jpalmer1970 said:

using jigs like that really helps make everything look consistent

 

Yes, indeed - excellent use of such simple jigs. I think your results will be in the Goldilocks zone. You'll get the sort of consistency that suits a model made from organic materials, but not the soulless exact duplication that comes with injected plastic or 3D prints.

[glbarlow]

On 9/17/2023 at 3:13 PM, Thukydides said:

In retrospect I think I needed a finer thread,

As l ready suggested I’ve converted to the fly fishing thread, it works nicely. I would also suggest looking into tying a figure eight seizing. The same method used to seize a fish hook onto the line. I do all my block and hook attachments using this, it’s a handy knot to know. 

[Thukydides]

24 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

I do all my block and hook attachments using this, it’s a handy knot to know. 

Do you have anywhere in your build logs you describe this in more detail. I looked up figure 8 knots, but I am having trouble understanding how they would be of help with a block for some reason.

[glbarlow]

I guess it’s properly called a  Clinch knot  The link is to a fishing video tying it to a hook, same thing. Instead of the loop being through the hook eye (which obviously works for our hooks) a block goes in that loop.  The quad hands is an essential tool to hold the block in this case. I vary the number of wraps from 5-7 depending on the size of the block. Done with fly fishing line it makes for a nicely seized block.  For a block and hook seizing the hook goes as shown in the video and the block in the upper loop made. Then both ends of the rope are trimmed after a bit of watered down white glue or clear acrylic (or matte varnish, I haven’t tried that)

 

I’m pretty sure I covered this in my Cheerful log in more detail, hope it helps. 

[glbarlow]

Here’s another video more on point Seizings

[AON]

The seizing in the video above is actually called common whipping used at the end of a rope instead of a back splice, to keep it from untwisting or fraying.

[Quimp Slattery]

4 hours ago, glbarlow said:

Here’s another video more on point Seizings

That is how we fastened the elastic onto our catapults back in the sixties. Exactly the same technique. We knew it as whipping. Thanks for the memories. 👦

[glbarlow]

Lots of things with lots of names. Point is it works for seizing blocks and hooks.

[AON]

Yup, sailors have been using both common whipping and sailmaker's whipping for centuries. Two quite different whipping methods. The former is quick and can slip off the end of a wet line, the latter is long lasting, so much so that it was used on the end of reef lines, two sailmaker's whippings in series. When the end of the rope wore down past the first whipping of the two in series due to it slapping against the sail the second took over until the sailmaker could take the sail down and change them all out again.

Edited September 19, 2023 by AON

[Theodosius]

Your gun-tackels(?) look phantastic!

 

Even though I have a question about it: It seems to be common sense, that one have to use a one- and a two-block! I can understand, that for the big guns it was nessessary to use a pulley to translate more length of line into more force.

 

But also for this small ones? I mean, perhaps a sailor could move them with a gentle push of one of his feet. I could imagine, that a smaller translation with only one-blocks, or perhaps just even a single block would produce enough force to easyly push the loaded gun through the gun port. My point here is: the less line you have to pull, the faster the gun is ready again to fire. But that is just a theory of mine  and propably completly wrong 🙂