1:64 cannon detail

[Dave_E]

Hello Everyone,

 

Tonight decided to “work” on the guns of the Lady Nelson. UNDER the magnifying glass you can see mold lines. I was able to scrape those off and clip/file any flashing off and file down the big nub at the muzzle. How far do you go to detail these tiny things? I’m thinking after I prep them and paint them, the paint will hide most casting imperfections, no? Does anyone go as far as try to drill out a little bore? 

[mtaylor]

21 minutes ago, Dave_E said:

Hello Everyone,

 

Tonight decided to “work” on the guns of the Lady Nelson. UNDER the magnifying glass you can see mold lines. I was able to scrape those off and clip/file any flashing off and file down the big nub at the muzzle. How far do you go to detail these tiny things? I’m thinking after I prep them and paint them, the paint will hide most casting imperfections, no? Does anyone go as far as try to drill out a little bore? 

Some do go very much into micro detail.   It depends on you.  Is the bore not open?  

[Dave_E]

It’s an Amati kit. The muzzle end of the cannons have a big casting lug on them, some large enough to clip off with a cutter, then file down the rest to be a flush muzzle end. Don’t know that I dare try to drill out a bore on these tiny things.

[mtaylor]

You might pop a photo for others to see and give options.  It also depends how much detail you want as some places have PE (Syren might even have them) for guns' royal impress near the breech.

[Keith Black]

Dave, as Tom Silva says, "money's in the details" or the old saw "devil is in the details". The more time you spend working on the details, the better model you're going to have in the end. Model ship building is a marathon of patience. It's not how fast you get to the end, it's how well you journeyed to get there. 

 

 This is your crossroads, it's the point where Dave has to decide if he's going to do the very best he can no matter what or how long it takes, or if he decides to settle for mediocrity.  

 

 Please believe me when I say I don't mean to sound rude because I'm not trying to be. You see, I'm pulling for Dave to model the best Lady Nelson possible.

[Keith Black]

18 minutes ago, Dave_E said:

Don’t know that I dare try to drill out a bore on these tiny things.

 Dave, do you have a pin vice? If not it's one of the most important tools you can own along with a set of good micro drills. I'm working at 1:120 scale and I was able to bore out the ends of the guns I made. You don't need to drill more than a quarter of an inch deep. 

[Dave_E]

Hey Keith,

 

No don’t have a pin vice… yet. I jut got done detailing the swivel guns, i.e. getting rid of any flashing and serious mold lines. I think they will look fine after the blackening process. Y’all don’t laugh, but I know I just tried what many have… holding the cannon with one hand and tried to use a pin drill… 😆. I’m going to assume the hand drill and tiny bits are pretty much useless on this brass. What do you use for the drill?

[Charles Green]

At that scale, the tiniest error in centering of the bore hole will be glaringly obvious.  Are the muzzles truly circular or are they jogged due to the mold halves being off a little?  Are all the muzzle diameters uniform size? You should use a caliper graduated in 0.00X inch or 0.0x mm to determine this.  If the mold was true and the muzzles all the same diameter, I would recommend spending the time to make a jig for accurate centering of the bore hole drill.  If the muzzles are out of round or vary in size, I would skip the bore holes.  With either of those problems present, it will be futile trying to center the bore holes and the holes will draw attention to those imperfections.    

[Keith Black]

 Dave, pin drill and pin vise are the same animal. Sorry, i didn't realize the cannon were brass so I agree with Charles, forget drilling out thee muzzles. What you might try is to make the end of a wooded plug (just a sliver) and glue it to the muzzle? What do you think, Charles? 

[KirbysLunchBox]

I decided to 3D print new cannons for my LN. The kit provided ones are not really to scale. This is just my prototype and no post processing has been done yet, but it is more to scale. I got the dimensions off of this site for a 3 pounder. https://www.arc.id.au/ArmstrongPattern.html

 

i think someone else bought some cannons from syrenshipmodels for their LN. that might be another option for you. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by KirbysLunchBox

[glbarlow]

You can do a nice job painting the ones that came with the kit, mine didn’t need boring and the end result isn’t mediocre, it is consistent with the rest of the average starter kit this is.
 

The other option is buy new wood carriages and resin barrels and replace them entirely. They are 4 pounders, I’d bet Vanguard has them.

 

Pin vises in several sizes are essential tools. Power drills or rotary tools are hard to control at this scale, hand drilling yields the most accurate result. I would in any case drill these little things. I think they are bronze, not brass, any drilling may cause them to split. 

[Charles Green]

Good Morning Keith:  

 

A false-muzzle to make up for irregularities in the castings?  Centering the hole in the false-muzzles and then centering them on the cannons while making a smooth transition between them, and keeping the glue out of the bore holes; at this scale it sounds like a gluing nightmare!  

[Roger Pellett]

When not in use, Naval guns were plugged with tampons in an effort to protect the bore from salt water corrosion.  Tampons were wooden plugs, usually painted.

 

 Instead of trying to accurately drill out the barrel, smooth off the end and add a touch of paint, the same color as your bulwarks.  I think that you’ll be much happier with the result.

 

Roger

[Keith Black]

 Roger, thank you. That's what I was trying to suggest in post #9 when I said "What you might try is to make the end of a wooded plug (just a sliver) and glue it to the muzzle"  I think Charles misunderstood me? 

[Charles Green]

Keith:

I was way off.  I misunderstood you.

[Keith Black]

40 minutes ago, Charles Green said:

I was way off.  I misunderstood you.

Charles, no problem. Would it be possible once a false plug/tampon was glued on the muzzle face to drill and add a eye pin to represent a ring bolt? 

[Charles Green]

Keith:

That would be a nice touch and one that is seldom seen.  It would require dead-soft wire, hard to handle, but would look great.

[Dave_E]

I guess I spoke too soon as the main cannons ARE bored. However as seen in the photo, the castings are so inconsistent, only 3 out of 9 were OK and I was short 1 main cannon. 😐

[allanyed]

Dave,

It may be the photo but the bore looks oversized and off center.   The bore of a 3 pounder at 1:64 should be about 0.045".    The website in Kirby's post is a good one and easy to use.  The dimensions match those in other sources including Caruana et al.

Allan

[henrythestaffy]

Dave,

          I can print as many barrels as you need or if you have access to a printer near home I can send you an STL file. All I need from you is a picture or drawing of the cannons.

 

Paul

[KirbysLunchBox]

I can send the .stl for my cannon as well if you have access to a printer. 

[KirbysLunchBox]

I don’t have a resin printer and I plan to have a friend print the final versions of my cannons, otherwise I would have offered to print some for you as well. 

[Dave_E]

Thank you all for the offers. I'll stick with what Amati put in the kit this time. As I study the forum and see everyone's beautiful work, I'm making a list of things I think I'll want to "bash" on my next project (cannons will probably be on the list). I have a long way to go... need to cut my teeth with the Lady.

[Keith Black]

Dave, what are you going to do about the missing cannon?

[Dave_E]

Suppose this is as good a thread as any to ask some more questions regarding the cannons. I have 20 LITTLE brass rings that get attached to the side of the cradle. Super glue I assume is the method? How many times do you accidentally break them off while doing rigging?

[barkeater]

Dave,

Hopefully those brass rings look like eye bolts otherwise you are going to have problems😁. You are correct, superglue (cyanoacrylate) is what you want to use gluing metal. As to breakage, I've never had a problem with kit supplied rings/ eye bolts. They may bend but unless you really use a lot of force, I can't see them breaking.  For scratch building I use silver wire which is stronger than craft wire.

Richard

[allanyed]

Dave,  If I am understanding you correctly, the rings are not glued to the carriage brackets but rather are on eye bolts.   These would be for the breechings.  There are also eyebolts on which the running out rigging is hooked.  Spyglasses photo shows this.   The drawing below may also help.  I strongly doubt glue, even epoxy, will hold up to any contact without coming off.   I still wonder why so many kits still use cast carriages as they are not close to realistic and difficult to work with for things such as this.   It is nice to see there are a couple kit makers that have provided these in wood.

 

Cheers

 

Allan

 

[Dave_E]

Thanks Guys,

 

I see the difference. There is a place for the "rings", however not like I thought. I will study some of the completed work on the site. I have seen there can be much "rigging" done for a single cannon. The Amati instructions and the Lady Nelson video build show a very simple rigging. Time to study.

[allanyed]

Dave,

To make life easier, cannon that are out of sight need not be rigged, it is up to you.  Even contemporary models are often missing  rigging on cannon, and often the cannon are not even included. Two of many examples at Preble Hall follow.

Allan

 

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by allanyed

[Dave_E]

Hi All,

 

Good as a place as any to continue the detail topic. The cradles that come in the Amati kit are cast (pot metal) perhaps and have a coating on them, some sort of varnish or lacquer. You can see it under a magnifying glass very plainly. I was going to try and paint the carriage red and the wheels black. Do I need to remove this coating before attempting to paint? If so, how? If no, what type of paint should I use, enamel or acrylic? 
 

Again, being my first ship, I could just leave them alone… 🤔 Am I wrong assuming cannon parts in better kits are actually wood?