HMS Fly by aliluke - Amati/Victory Models - 1/64

[aliluke]

Hi

After mothballing my HMS Fly for eight years and delving in making Wingnut Wings WWI plastic kits, I am returning to Fly with the intention to render it as a hull only model but keep the option for future rigging by making the mast stubs removable. Here, in this reloaded log, I will compress my previous log but keep the information that might be useful to other Pegasus/Fly builders. After I finish the reload I will delete the old log. Many years ago I bought all four volumes of the the FFM Swan Class Sloops from Seawatch Books which I have been studying in the last few days as I did when I was working on Fly. Stupidly during the first phase of building I kept no notes of what I was using - rope sizes, paint colours, block sizes; etc. - so the old log is good for a memory jolt. I will keep a notebook from now on! As a rule I try to get the details historically correct - the FFM helps as do other logs here (especially Blue Ensign's) - but I also defer to my own aesthetic taste in instances where this may be slightly incorrect, e.g. my quarter badges which attracted some comment back then. My method of weathering the copper clad hull also attracted a lot of comments! But I stand by it.

 

So to kick off this reload:

I started by scratch building the binnacle - this was to get my head around the model's scale and to navigate my way forward with the build:

Next I reworked the quarter badges - I think 'Realworkingsailor' sent me the profiles. I got some comments about how this was historically wrong for Fly but I still much prefer them to the flat white metal kit supplied badges. I also reference VII of the FFM, page 293 - 297 which describes a similar badge. I'm using styrene to build the window frames but kit PE for the panes. The "dolphins" are also kit PE but difficult to fit to the window head. At this point I'm still avoiding the hull...

 

Scratched quarter badges versus kit supplied:

Next I got into the hard yards of the hull. I actually really enjoy this part of the build as mere frames become a three dimensional thing. Through practice and many failures I have lost the fear of planking but I know it is a steep learning curve for first time builders as it was for me.

 

Framing complete

 

The lower deck is planked where it might be seen through the hatches.

 

The 'false' main deck is checked for fit and marked out for future planking. In my model version this deck comes in two halves which needs work between fit with the frames and uplift in the middle.

Next I fair the frames and balsawood block and fill to the bow and stern which really helps both with the fairing and with planking. It gives you shape and adhesion where you most need it.

 

I added a bulkhead at the end of the main deck. This is not glued at this point. Made from cardboard with a light, dirty wash and walnut frames. I try in vain to see it now but it is there...

Next up the deck is installed smoothed off, main mast partners installed and deck planking begins. I bought after-market holly for the decks. This was after experimenting but holly is very white and almost free of grain. I like it but it might not be for everyone. On many models I see poor decking is a let down for an otherwise really good model and I think it is worth experimenting and planning before you commit. I mapped the main deck on tracing paper and transferred that to the actual deck. I also have trouble with treenails on a model deck. Black nails can start to look like pimples especially if the deck set out is not well planned. So I opted for a pale wood paste for the deck nails. Several people pulled me up for this but I like that you can see them when you want and they disappear at other angles. Caulking was done with a pencil on one edge only. With a tightly fitted deck that works fine to my eye.

The hatches are from boxwood with box corner joints. They sit within the decking rather than on top. this requires a bit of cross coordination but works for me. The top edge of the hatch is slightly rounded. Lego is a great squaring device for making hatches.

 

Next I test the hatch fit and smooth off the main run of planks. I still haven't grappled with the edge planking but it still fits my mapping. I'm not saying I got this right but certainly the planning made me feel better about the outcome.

 

Then I drill for the treenails...this to me looks far too pimply so I fill with pale paste.

 

At this point it is time to do the first planking. Gulp. This kit, as many others do now (or then, I can't remember...), provides a plywood pattern for the gun ports and upper works. As challenging as this is to fit - it just takes time and patience - it is a brilliant guide to all the planking that is to come. However poor fitting of the patterns has undone some modelling. I think Chuck expresses this perfectly - "Just take your time." It is an adage for all model making...Notice that the forecastle and quarter deck templates are dry fitted to guide the plywood pattern. Finally getting the patterns to join at the bow is when you know it fits. And take some extreme measures such as clamping and nailing. Get these parts right and you are underway.

 

 

Next it is finally time for the first planking layer. Although this is only my fourth plank on frame model, I now treat the first layer as if was the only one. That is I try to make is a good as I can as that teaches me for the second layer. I don't approach it as being sacrificial and try to make the plank runs flow from stem to stern as they must on the second layer.

Next is the outer layer of planking. The kit provides walnut but I find this too dark and too variable in colour. I replaced it with boxwood which is a colour I prefer and a beautiful timber to work with. The second layer was eased by the effort on the first - I just followed those planks with full adhesion along the length of the hull.

 

 

 

 

Next up for me was painting and fiddling those details.

 

Then fiddling with other details such as making a stove.

And the capstan upper and lower details.

 

Another thought on the photo above. I work hard to fit the gratings into the hatches so that all the edges are symmetrical across and along. the two aft hatches here have a thin edge aft and forward and a fatter edge starboard and port but they equal. It seems minor but is easy to do and the alternative just looks...bad.

 

Next up were the wales. These are critical to the hull shaping and look and were the most scary part of the hull build. Wales that waver off line look really bad, even on a good hull. I challenged myself to make them in the correct figure pattern - I don't know what to otherwise call this - but it helped with the part. I sure know that the stem to stern look and flow of the wales is critical to the model and defines everything above and below on the hull.

 

Unfortunately my efforts to paint and polish the wale almost completely eliminated any visual proof of the planking technique. And it does have a wobble here and there.

 

Will continue tomorrow. time for bed now.

 

Cheers,

A 

 

 

[allanyed]

The details in the coaming and head ledge corners, gratings, gun port linings, and deck furniture are very well done.

Allan

[aliluke]

Thanks Spyglass & Allan

 

Next update to compress my old log. I was determined to try to copper the hull no matter how the boxwood planking turned out. I marked the waterline using a very expensive kit of an old cardboard tube with a pencil piercing it. 

The coppering went well but the result was far too bright and shiny. The process was tedious but I stuck to the FFM concept of copper planking which more or less follows the hull planking. The bead at the waterline is a thin styrene strip painted black.

Unwilling to wait for the copper to naturally tarnish, I decided to accelerate the process. My wife, an architect, used to work on the design of high end resorts in Indonesia. They used horse urine to quicken the aging of copper roofs. I don't have a horse but I make urine - so why not try? Unpleasant to use but repeated applications over two to three days got me there. The speed of aging takes place within that time but needs careful working by brush on, wipe on and wipe off.  By this point I had also painted the upper works in my interpretation of the blue. For me Humbrol 157 enamel with a touch of added grey. After the aging of the copper the entire hull is sealed with Testors Dullcote. All of this is done by hand with brushes.

Next I tested the quarter badges for the look and started the process of adding the hull rails.

Improvements to the rails included making new coils for the end pieces. I also painted the upper most works in red.

 

Next up (actually I played with this earlier in the build) was the vexed issue of the cannons. The kit supplied ones are pretty awful (an understatement)  and not to scale. I mucked around with alternatives and settled after a while on RB Models barrels set on Syren Models (I think - memory a bit lost here) carriages. The RB Models cannon is pretty much the exact right size and it fits perfectly with the carriages. It was quite an expensive exercise trialing and getting the right bits in place but the cannon is a (the) central part of a warship and getting these wrong would let everything else down.

 

Test One - carriage good - barrel too big.

First test versus kit supplied cannon. Ugh - And my test barrel and carriage are still too big.

the next test put a new barrel (from where I can't remember) in the foreground up against the RB Models barrel in the background. RB wins.

Having settled on the cannon I now need to get them under the forecastle and quarter deck - where they'll never be seen again. The rig is single 2.5 mm block to double 2.5 mm block with 0.25 mm tackle and 0.6 mm breeching rope. I know the single to double block arrangement is wrong for this sized cannon but it is easier to rig and I don't have enough single blocks at 2.5 mm to do the job...

 

Lower capstan, beams, bitts, rear bulkhead and cannons (rope coils to come) installed before tackling the quarter deck installation. I'll leave it there for now.

[Blue Ensign]

Great to see again Alistair, she is a beautiful model and deserves to be finished.

With a view to the coppering finish, I'm off to make friends with the horses across the lane.😉

 

B.E.

[allanyed]

On 3/12/2023 at 5:03 AM, aliluke said:

They used horse urine to quicken the aging of copper roofs. I don't have a horse but I make urine - so why not try?

Where there is a will there is a way!   This is definitely one for the books.   Please do post about this "technique" in the building, framing and plating forum here at MSW.   

 

Collecting from a horse, or.....   I would go with the self-help method.

 

Allan

 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by allanyed

[hamilton]

Always nice to see your work, Alistair - glad to see this log refreshed and looking forward to whatever's coming! 

hamilton

[aliluke]

Thanks all,

Liking your Speedy Spyglass! 

Hi B.E. The K80 in your studio photo  catches my eye - is that HMS Bluebell? Is it from a kit? I'm still studying your Pegasus log - the definite volume to be read alongside The FFM. I've just ordered prints from the NMM of the Fly profile and deck plans. I'm guessing you have the same for Pegasus in your studio?

Hi Allan - Yes I will post my copper trick in the plating forum but with a big caveat - use at your own risk...

Hi Hamilton - Just catching up on your logs - Bluenose is looking superb.

 

Carrying on with my compacted log...

 

Attached the quarter deck - a nerve-wracking element to install but all went well.

Beginning the planking the quarter deck. I planned this using the FFM but probably oversized the hooded planks.

Completed quarter deck planking. Although this is telling most here how to suck eggs, my approach is first to plan the deck - butt joints and scarfed joints at the edge - then to lay the central plank and run it the full length of the deck. Check this for any waver off the line and then plank out from that to the rails. As I am also insetting the hatches into the decking, I make them beforehand and trim the deck to suit as I go. As said, probably old rope to most people here.

Hatches test fitted and deck treenailing complete.

I made the clerestorey skylight - adding the sidelights was beyond me...

Tested in place.

Taking a break - will continue shortly.

[aliluke]

Continued...

 

Stern transom decorations with quarter badges. I intend to improve these to make them look more like carved wood.

Installed. I'm jumping around as I can't remember the build sequence...I wasn't happy at this point with my 'F' for Fly placement and replaced it. The letters are gold Letraset.

Placed with the quarter badge.

Then closing out the forecastle.

The bitts and the crosstrees are a combo of scratch parts and modified kits parts. At the time I was asked about the rounded head rivets that i used on the gun carriages and the bitts. They are from www.scalehardware.com and are 0.7 mm rounded head rivets.

Lots of things here never to be seen again when the deck goes on. And on it goes with planking complete.

Added hatches and the stove flue. I ganged the hatches and flue together as I found keeping them as three separate elements was difficult and looked wrong to me. The flue is a very easy scratch with styrene tube, styrene baffle, brass rod and eyelets. The bitts need their rivets but are otherwise a hybrid of kit parts plus scratch.

Returning aft. I continued with other bits...

Scratched the rudder head housing - I will probably paint this red. It looks enormous but is just 7 mm high.

The gallows were an issue - the kit supplied version is slightly strange and I went with a scratch of the FFM version. Kit first followed by scratch. the camera is doing weird stuff with quarter deck planking...

Another break... 

[aliluke]

Continued...

I wrapped the stern rail with a styrene strip and fixed the quarter badges. Started to fiddle with the brass friezes but i hate these parts and may delete them altogether - we'll see. If kept I'll rework the painting of them but they'll always look like planted on brass bits which annoy me...

Added the closed rear gun port. Not quite a match to the hull planking.

Next was the head works. I mixed kit parts with scratch - mostly scratch. Probably the most challenging element so far. I'll live with the outcome but vow to do better the next time I grapple with these geometries.

At this point I have already got the rails on but that's another story.

Not by best modelling work but I'll live with it.

Added the last piece of scroll work.

The rails were installed - this another defining build element. I used the kit parts with only minor alterations - they fit really well.

I think the kit calls for grated hatches for the scuttles - I think this is wrong. Here scuttles as solid hatches with eyebolts.

Sailor on the fore deck shouting. "Where are the masts?"

Lastly back then I played with the swivel cannons. I think the barrels are from Syren - I'll check that but pretty sure. The rest is scratched.

 

Compared to the kit offer...

Finally before I move along with the model some overall pictures:

 

Aft, fore rails  and various other parts not fitted in this one.

 

That'll do. That sort of shows where I got to and now I'll carry on. First up will be removing the build-up of dust. I was seriously lazy and just left the hull on a side table in my studio - it is very dirty. Very, very dirty.

 

Cheers,

Alistair 

[Blue Ensign]

Thank you, Alistair, for your kind words, glad my old Pegasus log is still providing some use.

Yes, that is Bluebell, made back in the 1990’s from a Matchbox Kit with aftermarket additions. I loved those corvette kits so much I built it again as Snowberry (A Revell issue) with more modifications, but that one is cased.

 

I like the hooded planks on the QD adds a load of interest, and those replacement headworks are a vast improvement on the kit issue.

Enjoying your resurrected build.

 

Regards,

 

B.E.

[aliluke]

Thanks B.E.

I always wanted to make the Revell kit of Snowberry. It is just the right scale and somehow a ship you might of imagined when you were a kid and reading The Adventures of Tintin - I don't know how to otherwise describe that feeling but I love being in rough seas, the sound of the propellers and the groans of a ship at sea. Bluebell feels like a ship...I might track down the Revell model.

 

The anchor rig for Fly still baffles me but otherwise I think I have the next steps sorted out. I did a major clean out of my work space in the weekend - Fly plus everything else is in those overhead cupboards and I'm ready to get back into it.

 

Cheers,

A

[Blue Ensign]

You put me to shame Alistair, better not let my wife see your work space😬

B.E.

[aliluke]

Hi

BE - thanks for checking in. I'm probably a bit OCD.. I like things to be clean for the next task....but it does get messy in between.

 

Waiting for various things. Shipping to New Zealand is wildly variable but I got Syren Model bits in quick time while waiting for other stuff from the UK.  So I put together the ship wheel from Syren. A brilliant little kit but very fiddly to build - and the photo shows me that I still have a few bits to touch-up. The spokes are very tricky to do but overall I think I made an okay cut at it but, of course, nothing as good looking as the result in the excellent instructions. Here shown against the kit wheel. The kit wheel is circa 20 mm in total diameter. The Syren kit is 24 mm. The TFFM for Swan Class confirms 24 mm as about right. The kit wheel has more detail than I can add but still looks like less of a model part than Syren's version. Thanks Chuck!

Cheers

A

[allanyed]

For the future......    We are working on drawings of cannon from the 17th century through the age of the Blomefields, including STL drawings that can be emailed to a 3D printer firm to have them made of black resin (or brass colored for the older brass barrels) I have had them made for as little as 60 cents each.    Fly would have most likely had 6 pounder Armstrong Frederick guns,  The 2D can be seen below.  The 3D are also below.  To open the 3D is not needed, just send them to the printer with the length that you want.   If anyone wants to open the 3D, download, for free, either Fusion 360 or Blender or similar program.  These drawings have the cascabel ring, the correct number of reinforce rings and the George II cipher for that era based on drawings from The History of English Sea Ordnance by Adrian Caruana.  I have also attached PDFs which are more clear than the pngs below.

Keep in mind the lengths given for cannon are from the muzzle to the breeching ring, not the end of the cascabel.   The overall length is to the end of the cascabel.  The following chart is for the 6 pounder AFs.

7 foot  - Overall length at 1:64   1.5" (38.1mm)

7 foot 6 inches- Overall length at 1:64   1.6" (40.78mm)

8 foot - Overall length at 1:64   1.69" (42.8mm)

Just as an FYI, as I do not have a 3D printer I used an outside commerical printer.   I have not paid more than $0.60 each, including freight within the US for similar size barrels and the quality was excellent.  I am sure it would be similar in most countries.

Allan

 

 

 

6-84.stl 6-90.stl 6-96.stl 6 pounders.PDF

Edited April 11, 2023 by allanyed

[aliluke]

Thanks for that Allan. We have a state of the art 3D printer at work and we can print in wood, metal and resin so I might give one of these barrels a whirl. I'm sorted already for the Fly cannon barrels with ones from RB Models but for the future...

 

Cheers

Alistair

[allanyed]

1 hour ago, aliluke said:

I'm sorted already for the Fly cannon barrels with ones from RB Models but for the future...

Hopefully we will have well over 100 different barrels in 3D later this year.  Working with the mods on a way to do this so all will be posted in the Articles data base.  The drawings are in full scale but I made a spread sheet with LOA dimensions for each barrel in 7 different scales.  It is no problem to do them in any scale, but the spread sheet makes it a little easier not having to do the math.

Allan

[CiscoH]

Alistair what did you use for caulking on the holly main deck?  I have been using pencil which is a subtle line; yours looks more pronounced

 

thx cisco

[aliluke]

Soft pencil (A "B" lead - I think - it was a while ago) applied to both edges.

 

Cheers

A

[aliluke]

Hi

Been mucking around in the background making a VM 26' launch. My target boat for Fly is the 28' pinnace but the launch is a practice kit and just might do - we'll see. I challenged myself to do it without stealers or infill planks so that I could leave it natural if I chose so. That has worked out so far. These are really amazing little kits but very fiddly.

 

Two planks to go on the port side, three on starboard.

 

Lots of sanding to come...

 

My plank bending device - a four hands magnetic table by Weller

 

 

So what could go wrong with this kit? These photos are from the instructions

 

The very narrow junction on this part is bound to break - and break it I did while beveling it. Determined not to do it again...I did it again. An easy fix with white glue.

 

I decided not to insert the stern board before doing the beveling as I could see myself whacking it with a stray stroke and taking out the sternpost with it. I can't prove that that happened because of my caution but a later insertion, after the hardcore bevel seems wise.

 

Other thoughts on this tiny kit to date?

- The turn in of the planks to the bow is much more severe than you suspect at first

- Tapering planks at 2.0mm x 0.6mm with a knife cut is too dangerous for me - the knife would swerve off and take out the plank or some part of my finger. I tapered them by sanding only.

- Edge bending is probably necessary but given the tiny size of the planks you can contort them, against their will, while gluing them down. Once bent and tapered, I just glued them down with gentle hand clamping

- The pear wood is very strong even at very thin widths. It took a while to get this and, for tapering with sandpaper, you can be quite aggressive. I broke one plank by another accident but none by sanding.

- My method of running the planks full length without stealers and infills seemed to take a toll on the kit provided planks - 26 in total. My hull has 24 planks with two more needed for the wales and two more for the final upper works.               Somehow I completely lost a plank so I'm at least three short. Very kindly, VM is, no questions asked, going to send me a new billet of planks.

 

I'll post the finished outcome when I get there!

 

Cheers, with apologies for the crappy photos...

A

 

 

[allanyed]

Alistair,  Your work is excellent and the build a pleasure to follow!

Just as an FYI, there are  high res plans of pinnaces, including single banked 28 foot pinnaces from 1793 and 1798 in the Wiki Commons site which are posted below if you want to modify the inboard works to be more like a pinnace.   FWIW there were probably only about 8 or 9 planks per side.  Not sure if that makes it easier or more difficult. The drawing of the launch below with a cross section shows 9. 

Allan

 

 

 

[whitejamest]

That is some very sharp, neat planking, well done. She will be a beauty. Also it's a contractual obligation to break a few delicate pieces on these little kits, so much better to get that out of the way early on. 

[aliluke]

Thanks Allan - very nice drawings and I'll refer back to them when I get on to the pinnace.

 

Thanks whitejamest - the funny thing is that after posting and boasting about not breaking a plank while tapering them, I immediately broke a plank while...tapering. At least I have met my contractual obligation!

[Beef Wellington]

Good to see you back at it Alistair.  You've got some nice details going on.

[aliluke]

Thanks for dropping in Jason. As said in your log, Jason is an example of superb model making - I'll keep watching progress on that project in awe of your skills.

 

 

[aliluke]

Hi

I have achieved my slightly absurd, self, challenge of planking the VM 26' foot launch without resorting to stealers, infill planks or any fillers. Strangely I get wood striping even though all of the planks came off the same sheet and were always orientating outwards on one side. It doesn't really matter but is odd and I can still elect to paint. The keel has some variant colours too - but that is also okay with me. Of course there are some air gaps and you couldn't float this boat but it isn't a bathtub toy! The shell is eggshell fragile and I have yet to sand inside. A tricky but very cool little kit. I did the last plank in three sections on both sides (it's the third one up from the keel) - it was a killer to fit. Otherwise all planks run full length. When I finish it, I'll get back to the main subject = Fly.

 

 

[ccoyle]

I always love it when fingers pop into an image -- provides a true sense of perspective!

[allanyed]

Super planking on such a small scale!  Do you know the width and thickness of the planking that was provided?   

Thanks

Allan 

[whitejamest]

The planking looks lovely, and the striping effect just enough to say yes, indeed these are individual planks. The strength will increase drastically as soon as you have added a few of the simulated frames. 

 

 

[aliluke]

Thanks Chris, Allan & Whitejamest and thanks for the likes

Allan - the planks are 2mm x 0.6mm

[allanyed]

4 hours ago, aliluke said:

the planks are 2mm x 0.6mm

I thought that might be the situation.  See below plan for plank breadth and thickness for a launch of 1779.  The breadth on this and several other contemporary drawings that I looked at were what would be between 2.8 and 3.5mm wide at 1:64 scale.  Scantlings in

W.E. Mays book on boats for a 24 foot launch is 7/8" but I would go thicker like you did so there is material to work with for scraping or sanding.  The wider stakes might make the planking a bit easier for the next project.  Still, kudos on your planking at this scale which looks very well done.

Allan

  

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by allanyed