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Young America 1853 by EdT - FINISHED - extreme clipper


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Hi Ed-

Not to get too fixated on scuppers but looking at Crowthers book, there appear to be four on each side (at the [1] break of the Forecastle; [2] between 1 & 3; [3] low point in the waist; [4] break of the poop deck. He couches this generalization by saying this 'rule' varied by ship design. Do you remember if you found a reference of the number/location of the YA scuppers or made a (very) educated guess? Remembering my hull iron banding fiasco (Admiralty vs Lloyds), I thought I'd check in again before drilling.

 

I know Mystic has a virtual warehouse of models and not all are on display. I trust your YA is viewable by the public-it might be worth the trip.

 

I will definitely share some pix with you. You've been very generous with your time. Let me finish off a couple things before taking some progress photos. It is starting to look like a ship.

 

Randy

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Randy,

If you have a reasonable basis for the scuppers I would go for it.  I can't recall how I decided on these.  I don't know if the model is on display.

 

Ed

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Ed,

 

Just want to confirm something before I begin. Do you have a reference confirming Young America was sheathed in yellow metal and not copper. On Crowther's table on metal sheathing on era ships, Celestial (1850) and Gazelle (1851) were copper sheathed. Challenge (1851) was sheathed in yellow metal. Crowthers has no reference for either way for Comet (1851), Invincible (1851), Young America (1853) and Flyaway (1853). There is a Remark that Young America was sheathed in yellow metal in November 1879 but it us unclear if this represents a change from copper. Many other builders were using yellow metal, but I'm having difficulty identifying the sheathing material used in 1853. I have material for either approach. Do you remember how you decided which to use?

 

Thanks again!

 

Randy

 

(I have not forgotten the progress pictures but things are a bit of a mess. I'm hoping to remount my hull back on the shipway soon, then I'll send some along for you)

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I remember making the decision and definitely had a reference, but cannot recall it, specifically.  Suggest you look in the Bilbliography.  It should be in one of those references.  It certainly would have been cheaper at that time to use copper-zinc, ie yellow brass, than copper. If you have doubts, you may have do some of your own research.  If my recollection improves I will advise.

Ed

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I too am waiting for my recollection to improve.

Maury😊

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  • 3 weeks later...

 

Randy,

Thanks for the photos.

I don't seem to have the software to open these.  I will try to get it later.

 

Ed

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Ah, thank you Randy.  Much better.  Looks lovely - and very familiar.

 

Ed

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  • 7 months later...

Randy, I suggest you open a build log of your own for this model.   

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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Hi Ed,

 

Sorry to take up the space. Early on we discussed a builder's log and it's not something I'm inclined to sink any time into (best to keep the marriage healthy). I thought you mentioned some interest in seeing my progress. Sorry for the misinterpretation and I'll stop sending photos (hate taking them anyway). I'll confine my correspondence to questions about Volumes 2 and 3- never done any home milling before so I'm sure I'll have plenty.

 

Randy

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Randy, this is a lovely build and deserving of a log. You don't have to post any more than you want. It really is easy and when you have milling questions we'll be able to better help later in your own log.

Greg

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Admiralty Models Cross-section Build

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Pegasus, 1776, cross-section

Current build
Speedwell, 1752

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Hi Randy,

 

On the scuppers, I probably just followed Crothers.  Any pictures posted here would be much appreciated.  I do not know if my model is on dislay at Mystic, but if you find out, let me know.

 

Ed

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  • 2 weeks later...

When in doubt, Amazon.  There's always Micromark.  I got brass and copper wire, strips, plate, sheets etc from a variety of places - not one or even a few.  A lot of hardware stores - like Ace - have K&S displays.  The search for stuff is part of the fun.

 

Ed

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McMaster Carr for lots of stuff from high quality drill bits to copper and brass sheets and rods.  https://www.mcmaster.com/

Allan

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

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I acually use a paper cutter depending on the thickness.  Also, make sure to get uncoated material.  Some craft sources sell coated material that does not tarnish, but also does not react to darkening.

 

Ed

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  • 1 month later...

Ed, 

On the YA, was the he mizzen mast a single tree or was it a made mast on your model?  If a single tree, why the decision to place mast bands?  I seem to recall that I read somewhere that bands were place on single tree mast for strength.  
I am currently building the Flying Fish and it supposedly had a single tree mast and the plans show no bands on the mizzen.  However, 2 contemporary paintings ( Buttersworth and China Trade) show bands on the mizzen.

what to do?

Rick

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  • 2 weeks later...

Rick,

You are testing my memory because I know longer have the model, but I am sure that one of the blog posts shows what I did.   If there are hoops on the model, I am sure I had a reference basis.  As far as the need or desirability of hoop on single tree masts, I would think that hoops would contribut strength and limit splitting in either case.  I cannot offer advice on your model.  What to do? I suggest research.  I found many contemporary documents on line when reserching for YA.  Reading through these can be  difficult, sometimes frustrating and often inconclusive, but having done it you will be able to defend your choice with some confidence.  Fincham is a good place to start.  There are others. 

 

Ed

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On 12/28/2023 at 4:25 PM, Rick310 said:

Ed, 

On the YA, was the he mizzen mast a single tree or was it a made mast on your model?  If a single tree, why the decision to place mast bands?  I seem to recall that I read somewhere that bands were place on single tree mast for strength.  
I am currently building the Flying Fish and it supposedly had a single tree mast and the plans show no bands on the mizzen.  However, 2 contemporary paintings ( Buttersworth and China Trade) show bands on the mizzen.

what to do?

Rick

Rich...I concur with Ed.  Research...research.  flying Fish was constructed in 1851...and by then large *sticks* were not as available on the East coast.  Glory of the Seas was built with, *built* lower masts....on all three masts in 1869.  However, by the mid 1880's she had several masts refit with large single *sticks*, while she was on the West Coast...where such large trees where abundant.   Research the time frame of the said paintings....you may discover that if Flying fish was painted with bands on her mizzen...that was probably how she was rigged...during her construction...since most times good quality paintings were commissioned shortly after the ship was launched.....or after a new captain had made significant alterations.

 

Ed's YA was built with a banded mizzen

Robimage.png.d019162c2574c172e10f2e1d5b8a24d8.png

Edited by rwiederrich

Current build:

Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196

 

 

Finished build:

Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/#

 

Current build(On hold):

Build log: 1/96  Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/

 

Completed build:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/

The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts."

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Thanks EdT and Rob for your input.  I’m leaning towards placing bands on the Mizzen per both the China trade painting and the Buttersworth painting.  What is the likelihood that both artists would include bands if they  were not there?  
Thanks EdT for your thoughts that bands on a single tree mizzen would contribute to its strength.  That was my thought also.

Rick

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On 1/13/2024 at 10:35 AM, Rick310 said:

Thanks EdT and Rob for your input.  I’m leaning towards placing bands on the Mizzen per both the China trade painting and the Buttersworth painting.  What is the likelihood that both artists would include bands if they  were not there?  
Thanks EdT for your thoughts that bands on a single tree mizzen would contribute to its strength.  That was my thought also.

Rick

Rick,

Large checks(cracks) would form on the best single sticks as they dry and put under stress.  
 

Banding them would be prudent if not economical.  Still not Al builders banded their lower masts. 
 

Rob

Current build:

Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196

 

 

Finished build:

Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/#

 

Current build(On hold):

Build log: 1/96  Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/

 

Completed build:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/

The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts."

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  • 6 months later...
32 minutes ago, Rick310 said:

Ed,

Do you recall from your research if Young America had ventilators?

Hope to see the model at Mystic, unfortunately it was not yet on display last time I was there.  Your 3 volume series on building YA have been invaluable!

Rick

@Rick310

I had no idea Ed's spectacular, finished Young America would go on display at Mystic Seaport. Do you have any knowledge as to when she'd be on display or if Ed will make an appearance too? In 2015 I took pictures of her when she and her smaller plank on bulkhead sister were just finished hulls. I met Ed then and was able to get a copy of volume 1 of his book. The others had tet to be written then. A nicer, more humble guy you couldn't meet. It would be a thrill to see his finished replica in person.

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