Young America 1853 by EdT - FINISHED - extreme clipper

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed-

Not to get too fixated on scuppers but looking at Crowthers book, there appear to be four on each side (at the [1] break of the Forecastle; [2] between 1 & 3; [3] low point in the waist; [4] break of the poop deck. He couches this generalization by saying this 'rule' varied by ship design. Do you remember if you found a reference of the number/location of the YA scuppers or made a (very) educated guess? Remembering my hull iron banding fiasco (Admiralty vs Lloyds), I thought I'd check in again before drilling.

 

I know Mystic has a virtual warehouse of models and not all are on display. I trust your YA is viewable by the public-it might be worth the trip.

 

I will definitely share some pix with you. You've been very generous with your time. Let me finish off a couple things before taking some progress photos. It is starting to look like a ship.

 

Randy

[EdT]

Randy,

If you have a reasonable basis for the scuppers I would go for it.  I can't recall how I decided on these.  I don't know if the model is on display.

 

Ed

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed,

 

Just want to confirm something before I begin. Do you have a reference confirming Young America was sheathed in yellow metal and not copper. On Crowther's table on metal sheathing on era ships, Celestial (1850) and Gazelle (1851) were copper sheathed. Challenge (1851) was sheathed in yellow metal. Crowthers has no reference for either way for Comet (1851), Invincible (1851), Young America (1853) and Flyaway (1853). There is a Remark that Young America was sheathed in yellow metal in November 1879 but it us unclear if this represents a change from copper. Many other builders were using yellow metal, but I'm having difficulty identifying the sheathing material used in 1853. I have material for either approach. Do you remember how you decided which to use?

 

Thanks again!

 

Randy

 

(I have not forgotten the progress pictures but things are a bit of a mess. I'm hoping to remount my hull back on the shipway soon, then I'll send some along for you)

[EdT]

I remember making the decision and definitely had a reference, but cannot recall it, specifically.  Suggest you look in the Bilbliography.  It should be in one of those references.  It certainly would have been cheaper at that time to use copper-zinc, ie yellow brass, than copper. If you have doubts, you may have do some of your own research.  If my recollection improves I will advise.

Ed

[Maury S]

I too am waiting for my recollection to improve.

Maury😊

[EdT]

I think it may be a long wait, Maury.

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed,

 

Here are some progress pictures that you requested. Sorry for the long delayIMG_2345.HEICIMG_2347.HEICIMG_2346.HEICIMG_2351.HEICIMG_2349.HEICIMG_2348.HEIC

Let me know what you think,

 

Randy

[EdT]

 

Randy,

Thanks for the photos.

I don't seem to have the software to open these.  I will try to get it later.

 

Ed

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed,

 

Let me try this:

[EdT]

Ah, thank you Randy.  Much better.  Looks lovely - and very familiar.

 

Ed

[Randy Todd]

Good news: Finished Volume 1. Two more volumes: Good Grief!

[Randy Todd]

[mtaylor]

Randy, I suggest you open a build log of your own for this model.   

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed,

 

Sorry to take up the space. Early on we discussed a builder's log and it's not something I'm inclined to sink any time into (best to keep the marriage healthy). I thought you mentioned some interest in seeing my progress. Sorry for the misinterpretation and I'll stop sending photos (hate taking them anyway). I'll confine my correspondence to questions about Volumes 2 and 3- never done any home milling before so I'm sure I'll have plenty.

 

Randy

[dvm27]

Randy, this is a lovely build and deserving of a log. You don't have to post any more than you want. It really is easy and when you have milling questions we'll be able to better help later in your own log.

[EdT]

Hi Randy,

 

On the scuppers, I probably just followed Crothers.  Any pictures posted here would be much appreciated.  I do not know if my model is on dislay at Mystic, but if you find out, let me know.

 

Ed

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed,

 

What is a good source for high quality brass, copper bands, etc? I used to think all metals were the same until I got some blades from China that did nothing but fracture. If things go south as I start milling, I want to make sure it is the Indian and not the arrows....

 

Thanks in advance, 

Randy

[EdT]

When in doubt, Amazon.  There's always Micromark.  I got brass and copper wire, strips, plate, sheets etc from a variety of places - not one or even a few.  A lot of hardware stores - like Ace - have K&S displays.  The search for stuff is part of the fun.

 

Ed

[Dziadeczek]

For brass strips I use a guillotine (like the one used for photography). I cut them from a larger brass sheet, I obtained earlier for photoetching, and have some left over.

[allanyed]

McMaster Carr for lots of stuff from high quality drill bits to copper and brass sheets and rods.  https://www.mcmaster.com/

Allan

[EdT]

I acually use a paper cutter depending on the thickness.  Also, make sure to get uncoated material.  Some craft sources sell coated material that does not tarnish, but also does not react to darkening.

 

Ed

[Rick310]

Ed, 

On the YA, was the he mizzen mast a single tree or was it a made mast on your model?  If a single tree, why the decision to place mast bands?  I seem to recall that I read somewhere that bands were place on single tree mast for strength.  
I am currently building the Flying Fish and it supposedly had a single tree mast and the plans show no bands on the mizzen.  However, 2 contemporary paintings ( Buttersworth and China Trade) show bands on the mizzen.

what to do?

Rick

[EdT]

Rick,

You are testing my memory because I know longer have the model, but I am sure that one of the blog posts shows what I did.   If there are hoops on the model, I am sure I had a reference basis.  As far as the need or desirability of hoop on single tree masts, I would think that hoops would contribut strength and limit splitting in either case.  I cannot offer advice on your model.  What to do? I suggest research.  I found many contemporary documents on line when reserching for YA.  Reading through these can be  difficult, sometimes frustrating and often inconclusive, but having done it you will be able to defend your choice with some confidence.  Fincham is a good place to start.  There are others. 

 

Ed

[rwiederrich]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:25 PM, Rick310 said:

Ed, 

On the YA, was the he mizzen mast a single tree or was it a made mast on your model?  If a single tree, why the decision to place mast bands?  I seem to recall that I read somewhere that bands were place on single tree mast for strength.  
I am currently building the Flying Fish and it supposedly had a single tree mast and the plans show no bands on the mizzen.  However, 2 contemporary paintings ( Buttersworth and China Trade) show bands on the mizzen.

what to do?

Rick

Rich...I concur with Ed.  Research...research.  flying Fish was constructed in 1851...and by then large *sticks* were not as available on the East coast.  Glory of the Seas was built with, *built* lower masts....on all three masts in 1869.  However, by the mid 1880's she had several masts refit with large single *sticks*, while she was on the West Coast...where such large trees where abundant.   Research the time frame of the said paintings....you may discover that if Flying fish was painted with bands on her mizzen...that was probably how she was rigged...during her construction...since most times good quality paintings were commissioned shortly after the ship was launched.....or after a new captain had made significant alterations.

 

Ed's YA was built with a banded mizzen

Rob

Edited January 11 by rwiederrich

[Rick310]

Thanks EdT and Rob for your input.  I’m leaning towards placing bands on the Mizzen per both the China trade painting and the Buttersworth painting.  What is the likelihood that both artists would include bands if they  were not there?  
Thanks EdT for your thoughts that bands on a single tree mizzen would contribute to its strength.  That was my thought also.

Rick

[rwiederrich]

On 1/13/2024 at 10:35 AM, Rick310 said:

Thanks EdT and Rob for your input.  I’m leaning towards placing bands on the Mizzen per both the China trade painting and the Buttersworth painting.  What is the likelihood that both artists would include bands if they  were not there?  
Thanks EdT for your thoughts that bands on a single tree mizzen would contribute to its strength.  That was my thought also.

Rick

Rick,

Large checks(cracks) would form on the best single sticks as they dry and put under stress.  
 

Banding them would be prudent if not economical.  Still not Al builders banded their lower masts. 
 

Rob

[Rick310]

Thanks Rob for your input.  I agree with you and I intend to place bands on the Mizzen

Rick

[Rick310]

Ed,

Do you recall from your research if Young America had ventilators?

Hope to see the model at Mystic, unfortunately it was not yet on display last time I was there.  Your 3 volume series on building YA have been invaluable!

Rick

[ClipperFan]

32 minutes ago, Rick310 said:

Ed,

Do you recall from your research if Young America had ventilators?

Hope to see the model at Mystic, unfortunately it was not yet on display last time I was there.  Your 3 volume series on building YA have been invaluable!

Rick

@Rick310

I had no idea Ed's spectacular, finished Young America would go on display at Mystic Seaport. Do you have any knowledge as to when she'd be on display or if Ed will make an appearance too? In 2015 I took pictures of her when she and her smaller plank on bulkhead sister were just finished hulls. I met Ed then and was able to get a copy of volume 1 of his book. The others had tet to be written then. A nicer, more humble guy you couldn't meet. It would be a thrill to see his finished replica in person.

[Rick310]

I was at Mystic about a year and a half ago. They were in the process of redoing the model ship gallery at that time. I’m sure it is on display now.  Really want to see it.

Rick