Peerless 1893 by Cathead - 1:87 - sternwheel Missouri River steamboat

[John Ruy]

1 hour ago, Cathead said:

viewer's eye is less likely to notice the absence of an accurate detail than the presence of a distractingly wrong detail. Thoughts?

Eric, I used HO Scale windows and doors on my REL. The model railroading windows came with the clear plastic window panes. If you don’t have those windows you could use the clear plastic that is used for packaging. personally I think the detail of missing window panes  would be noticeable. IMHO 🤔

 

[Cathead]

John, good feedback. I think my pilot house is more open and the panes wider, so the plastic would show more. Maybe I'll mock up an example and show photos both ways so we can all judge the options more accurately.

[John Ruy]

10 hours ago, Cathead said:

Maybe I'll mock up an example and show photos both ways so we can all judge the options more accurately.

Testor makes a clear cement for windows. Works great… 
 

https://a.co/d/1cxRdWN

 

[LJP]

Hi Cathead, Great job!

 

Another alternative on the stacks is K&S aluminum "pipes".  They are stable, can be drilled, and have the open structure that you are looking for.  You can still use the plastic bands.

 

Keep up the good work,

LJP 

[wefalck]

In theory, the window panes are inserted into recesses in the stiles and hold in place by strips of wood. So the stiles should be visible from both sides. That would be difficult reproduce in 1:87 scale, of course.

 

Not sure what the physical size of the pilot house is, but one could use those very thin glasses as used in microscopy to cover samples. They are sold in packs of 100. They are very fragile, but can be cut to size with a scribing diamond. The stiles on back could be simulated just by paint.

 

Otherwise, these very viscous acrylic gels used by model railway builders to glaze locomotive and coach windows could be a solution. I assume that is the same as the Testors product mentioned above.

 

Talking about the stacks, if you allow me two observations: i think the stiffening bands are rather thick and it would be nicer, if it was bored out deeper. Personally, I would have turned them from either round aluminium or acrylic bar, which allows you to turn on the stiffening bands and to shape a nice flare. If you don't have a lathe, you could use styrene sheet around a wooden core.

 

[Roger Pellett]

Some forum members, particularly those glazing the windows in the sterns of Nelson Era sailing ships use Mica.  It supposedly cuts with scissors.  Perhaps there’s some on your farm!  Otherwise check Amazon.

 

Roger

[wefalck]

Yes, mica (or more precisely muscovite) can be easily cut with scissors or scalpels. It's one of the softest minerals actually.

 

I gather modellers of 18th or early 19th century ships use mica, because that is what was used often on the real ship. Mica as such is quite brittle, but when frames more elastic than glass. Also, before float-glass was invented, it was generally cheaper than glass.

 

Not sure, it will work here, as it usually has a slightly streaky texture - it is a mineral and not all the molecules are arranged perfectly. 

[mbp521]

Eric, I found that EMT electrical conduit works great for stacks. It’s rigid and has a texture similar to the old iron stacks of the day. I found this after I used rigid copper tubing for my Cairo stacks, which I feel worked nicely as well. The conduit also gives you the hollow interior for a more realistic look. For the bands, on my Chaperon I used heat shrink cut into small strips, heated to the size of the stack, then I applied a thin layer of glue to hold them in place. This seemed to work fine, but when it came to making the bands on my Cairo I used aluminum tape (copper tape will work to). I used a love wheel on the underside to form the rivet pattern and then applied it around the copper tubing. I’m not sure how the Peerless’ stacks were constructed, but this is a couple of methods that have work for me in the past. 
 

As for your windows, as several people have mentioned, I’ve used the clear plastic packaging before. They also make a glass compound that is made for model windows. I’ve also seen where people have taken the window frames, glued them down to a sheet of glass with clear Elmer’s glue, then gone in and filled the panes with the clear Elmer’s glue. After it has dried, the windows are released from the glass sheet with a razor blade and the outcome is similar to the olds style “rain glass”. 
 

-Brian

[kgstakes]

For my HO scale windows I've use clear plastic from packaging but I also use Micro Glaze from Micro Mark which works pretty well.  Only thing with the glaze is that it's more light the old widows in houses and such that you can see a "wave" in the glass (hope I'm explaining that correctly).  It's not as clear as using the plastic from a package like for figures or some other detail parts come in.

 

 

 

 

[GrandpaPhil]

I use clear plastic packaging for glass on models, too.

 

It has always worked well for me.

[Cathead]

Lots of input to consider here, thank you! One note, Roger, great idea, but there isn't any natural mica within probably 800 miles of here!

[Cathead]

All right, you lot got your way! I went to the hardware store and got some brass tubing to play with. Here's the resulting second draft of the chimneys. I scored them using a razor saw to simulate the joints. I shaved/sanded a wooden plug to fit tightly in the bottom of each so they'd sit and attach properly. Don't judge their exact angle, they're just sitting there as a test-fit.

 

I also moved forward on the pilot house; here's its current status. I used some clear plastic and CA formulated not to craze plastic. Not entirely happy with the outcome but it's too late now. Guess it looks like old glass. It'll certainly blend into the background of the finished model.

 

Sharp eyes will notice that I simulated the gap into which the lower half of the wheel vanishes by just putting down a thin dark piece of wood. It'll be barely visible in the finished pilot house and I didn't think building in the full gap and wheel was worth it. I still need to weather the steps to match the pilot house floor.

 

Next up I need to decide whether to try blackening the brass, or painting it with primer and then black paint. Also whether to try roughing it up with fine sandpaper or leaving it smooth. Will do some test pieces since there's tubing left over.

 

Thanks for pushing me to improve my work!

[mbp521]

2 hours ago, Cathead said:

All right, you lot got your way!

Woohoo! I love it when I get my way. 😆

The brass tubing looks great. If I may make a suggestion, Rustoleum, makes a self etching primer that works great to help paint adhere to bare metals such as brass, copper and aluminum. It’s what I use on my builds. It dries a little rough but with a quick sanding with 400grit sandpaper it finishes up nice and smooth and the topcoat lays down real nice. 
 

I also see nothing wrong with the pilothouse glass. Back in the day clear glass was not overly abundant. 
 

-Brian

[John Ruy]

23 hours ago, Cathead said:

All right, you lot got your way! I went to the hardware store and got some brass tubing to play with. Here's the resulting second draft of the chimneys. I scored them using a razor saw to simulate the joints. I shaved/sanded a wooden plug to fit tightly in the bottom of each so they'd sit and attach properly. Don't judge their exact angle, they're just sitting there as a test-fit.

 

I also moved forward on the pilot house; here's its current status. I used some clear plastic and CA formulated not to craze plastic. Not entirely happy with the outcome but it's too late now. Guess it looks like old glass. It'll certainly blend into the background of the finished model.

 

Sharp eyes will notice that I simulated the gap into which the lower half of the wheel vanishes by just putting down a thin dark piece of wood. It'll be barely visible in the finished pilot house and I didn't think building in the full gap and wheel was worth it. I still need to weather the steps to match the pilot house floor.

 

Next up I need to decide whether to try blackening the brass, or painting it with primer and then black paint. Also whether to try roughing it up with fine sandpaper or leaving it smooth. Will do some test pieces since there's tubing left over.

 

Thanks for pushing me to improve my work!

Eric, Those windows look great. 👍 

Edited March 4 by John Ruy

[Cathead]

So here's what the new stacks look like. Still not attached permanently so don't worry about their exact orientation.

 

I still have to figure out how to make the little rain shields (I assume that's what they are) that sit between the chimneys and the broader heat shields; you can see them clearly in this image:

I've tried a few things and none have looked good.

 

On to the pilot house. Here's a bit more progress, showing the ubiquitous wood stove in the corner, and the back wall added.

 

This had an unusual window pattern that you can see here:

 

And some rafters added:

 

Better late than never, I added some hardware to the bottom of the hull so the model could be bolted down to a base if desired. I should have done this much sooner, and now was the last chance while I could reasonably work on it upside down (before more delicate structures were added).

That's all for now, but it's progress. Thanks so much for sticking with me!

Edited March 10 by Cathead

[wefalck]

For those shields you could use a segment of a ring of paper, sheet-metal or styrene. It’s the surface of a truncated cone and you will have to calculate the necessary radii.

[mbp521]

Looking good Eric,

 

For the rain shields (I have no idea what they are called either) I used thin copper sheeting. 

I took a sheet of card stock and cut a circle about 25% larger than the diameter of the stacks base. I slit the circle from the outside edge to the center and the folded it into a cone to get the desired slope of the shield. I taped it together then centered the point of the cone in the stack to get the inside diameter of the shield and marked it. I then unfolded the cone, cut the center circle out, trimmed the overlap and had the pattern I needed. I then transcribed the pattern to the copper sheet and cut that out. 
 

I used this same method form my Cairo funnels as well, but just used the card stock instead since I ran out of copper. The results came out the same. 

 

Apologies for hijacking your build with so many pictures, I’m a visual guy and pictures always seem to help me describe what I’m trying to convey. 😁

 

-Brian

[Cathead]

Wefalck, thanks, I'd figured that out in theory but was struggling with putting it into practice. I'll definitely try Brian's method with card stock. I'd tried thin styrene but it didn't cut or fold cleanly enough. And thanks for the pictures, I'm also very visual.

 

 

[wefalck]

Personally, I would have turned this from the solid, with apropriately thinned out edges ...

[Cathead]

Wefalck, I don't have any kind of lathe. In theory I know what you mean, but I wasn't up for trying the old electric drill lathe trick, at least not until all other options had been exhausted.

 

As it turned out, Brian's method of using cardstock worked like a charm. Much better than the styrene I was trying to use, which didn't want to bend properly and was too thick (the joint stood out like a sore thumb). First I figured out what outside radius I wanted and looked for something to use as a pattern. Turns out a spool of cheap rigging thread from a former kit was perfect. So I traced that outline onto some paper, then traced the inner outline around the right size of brass tubing. This is a basic index card.

Notice that I was sneaky here and folded the stock over to get two comparable discs. Some previous experimentation had convinced me that one layer wasn't stiff enough. So I used the kindergarten trick and cut two out together, making their boundaries more consistent than trying to cut them out separately.

I could have glued the two halves together before cutting, but intentionally didn't. I thought that would make the overlapping joint too thick (more noticeable) and also make the stock stiffer and harder to bend (why the styrene wasn't working). So I spread some glue on one end of the ring, then formed it around the brass tube until I had the angle I wanted:

When both were independently glued up, I smeared glue on one whole surface and sandwiched them together. This worked great, giving me a stiffer final result with the appearance of a single layer (finer joint). I then painted them with thick black paint, which when dry stiffened them even further.

 

And here they are test-fit on the model. Much better than anything I'd tried before. Lots of internet points for Brian! Any card modelers reading this are shaking their heads and thinking "we could have told you that!".

 

Thanks for the advice! Even when I don't take it or go a different way, it makes me think and helps me learn. Next I need to start laying out the rest of the main cabin, and/or laying out the support posts for the hog chains. We'll see what I feel like doing when I next have time to work on this. 

 

 

[mbp521]

Glad that was helpful. They came out looking great!  
 

-Brian

[Keith Black]

1 hour ago, mbp521 said:

They came out looking great!  

 Agreed. 

[Jim Lad]

Just catching up, Eric. Those funnels look really good.

 

John

 

[KeithAug]

I like it when solution develop - it's so much more educational. Nicely made smoke stacks Eric.

[Cathead]

Well, I said I'd work on either the hog chains or the main cabin, and for once I stuck to the plan.

 

Building the rest of the cabin was mercifully straightforward, to the point that I didn't take many in-progress shots. I used some sheets of board-and-batten wood left over from past model railroad projects to lay out the walls, and scavenged close-enough windows from my scrap box. Here are the walls well underway, showing the bracing in the back and the carefully cut-and-fit holes for inserting the windows:

I painted everything white, then glassed in the windows the same way as the pilot house (CA plus scrap clear packaging), then added shades using some old sailcloth material from a past ship kit. When that was done, I assembled the structure using my magnetic squaring jig:

 

And here's the result:

 

Here's the cabin test-fit on the rest of the model, with relevant photos in the background:

 

It's been stressful around here lately and I needed a simple project that didn't require too much thought. This fit the bill perfectly. Doing the roof should be easy, too. Then I'll mark its location carefully and start laying out the hog chain braces.

 

Thanks as always for following along and giving feedback, whether through likes or comments. You all keep me going!

[JacquesCousteau]

Nice job on the cabin, the build's really coming together well!

[Keith Black]

 Eric, that looks so good, you're doing a swell job of replicating her. 

[mbp521]

Looking good Eric. I may have to look into getting me one of those magnetic squaring jigs. Looks pretty handy. 
 

-Brian

[kurtvd19]

Looks great Eric.

Brian, I use one of the magnetic squaring jigs when it's possible to build off the model.  When it's scratch I always use it.

[Cathead]

Time for a big dump of progress photos!

 

I completely failed to take photos of building the roof for the pilot house and cabin, but it wasn't complicated. I just cut a thin sheet of wood to the shape I wanted, spread glue on the "rafters", and secured everything with rubber bands.

 

The photo story picks up again as I applied the simulated canvas. I used the same method as I did on Arabia: strips of masking tape held down with a thin layer of wood glue. When that's dried overnight, I trim the edges and paint it. It's held up perfectly on that last model, I really like the texture, and it's more forgiving to work with than tissue paper or silkspan or other options. Plus it's dirt cheap. Here's a sequence showing the progression of slightly overlapping layers on the gently arching cabin roof:

And the same for the pilot house:

 

I'll use some pastels to weather this a little, dull it down, and give it some subtle variation in tone.

 

In the meantime I worked on laying out the support posts for the hog chains, which needed to be carefully situated to run just along the outside edge of the cabin roof. So I marked the final location of the cabin and carefully laid out where I wanted the posts to go through the boiler deck. Then I drilled a series of small holes and used a sharp knife tip and then small files to make the final shape:

 

I then made a simple jig for the angle I wanted the posts to sit at, and used this to set them up. Here they've already been cut and painted. The black tips are meant to represent the iron caps that actually held the hog chains onto the wooden posts.

And here are a few shots of the fore and aft hog chain posts resting in place (not yet glued); you'll notice I temporarily removed the chimneys to avoid any possible damage as I worked on all this:

 

I also built the assembly that goes over the stern, which I'd left off until now since it rises above the boiler deck and I didn't want to bump or snap it while doing earlier work on the deck.

 

Finally it was time to start attaching things for good. Here I've glued down the cabin and pilot house (big step!):

 

And while that was drying I got started laying down the "canvas" on the boiler deck, working up to the aft part of the cabin. I'll let this all dry completely before proceeding up either side of the cabin.

 

A close look will also show that I built and attached the little L-shaped guard wall around the staircase up to the boiler deck.

 

Once all the boiler deck canvas is laid, I'll (re)cut the hog chain post holes, paint it carefully (trying to avoid the cabin walls), then attach the stern piece. At that point the model will really be coming together though a lot of detail work remains to be done (not to mention the paddle wheel, which I'm dreading).

 

Thanks for reading (or at least skimming) through that big dump of updates!