Grecian by DB789 - FINISHED - Vanguard Models - 1:64 - American Privateer Schooner

[DB789]

I’ve been away a fortnight so very little progress. 
 

I’d love some advice. The block on the starboard vang for both the fore and main masts wants to turn 90 degrees and so is out of alignment. I’ve had great difficulty getting the four lines up to the block not to twist as soon as I let go, so this has been the best I can do with the lines untwisted. Can anyone recommend a way to get the block to turn 90 degrees and stay there? 
 

I’ve tried unthreading the line multiple time and re threading having twisted the block but to no avail. 

Main mast:

Fore Mast:

 

 

Thanks for any help! 

[chris watton]

When that happens with me (and it always does, even for braces sometimes), I apply diluted PVA to the lines and run my fingers down them. This does help.

[Glenn-UK]

I can't offer much advice. When I rig those blocks I try to ensure the blocks at each end of the thread are in the same alignment. I then add the thread to the yard, using a clove hitch knot. As I tighten the knot I check both blocks are aligned correctly.

 

As Chris advised diluted pva also on the lines.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Glenn-UK

[DB789]

Chris, Glenn, super - thank you both. 
Dan 

[Thukydides]

One thing you can do is identify the way it is trying to twist and pre do a couple of twists in that direction. That will make the rope want to twist back and may help counteract the forces. That is what I have been doing with the shrouds on alert.

[DB789]

4 hours ago, Thukydides said:

One thing you can do is identify the way it is trying to twist and pre do a couple of twists in that direction. That will make the rope want to twist back and may help counteract the forces. That is what I have been doing with the shrouds on alert.

Thanks. That’s what I’ve been trying, it has got rid of the twists in the lines but didn’t get rid of the 90 degrees out of alignment.

 

I’ve tried Chris and Glenn’s diluted PVA on one vang so far and it seems to have worked a treat. 
 

Your Alert is looking stunning, I wish I had your patience and attention to detail! 

[DB789]

Another piece of advice if I may? 
 

I’ve painted some of the rigging - either where it says dye the neutral 0.1mm lines (although I’ve mainly used black 0.1mm thread for this, there’s a few places that I didn’t) or where I’ve used a little CA and it’s shiny. 
 

In doing so I splattered some small black drops on the deck (using the AK-47 acrylic paint set from Vanguard for Grecian). I didn’t notice at the time and they’ve had two weeks to dry

 

Now there’s quite a lot of rigging up it’s not easy to sand these off and they’re quite stubborn. Is there an easier way to remove them with a solvent (I’ve tried water). The deck is not varnished but does have Danish oil on it. 
 

Many thanks

 

Dan
 

[chris watton]

Carefully scrape off with a knife blade, and then re apply a drop of varnish. This is what I do, at least.

 

I normally suggest 0.1 natural for rats becase it is not nearly as stiff as the black, so less likely to pull the shoulds too much. The Indian Ink then also helps secure the clove hitches - but always paper behind the shrouds, to keep any splashes to an absolute minimum.

[Thukydides]

What Chris said should work.

 

You could use small amounts of isopropyl on a swab (I assume this is acrylic paint), but the problem with wood is you may still end up rubbing it around more than rubbing it off. you could try putting a few spots on the offcut of the deck and letting it dry for a few days. Then try the isopropyl on it as a test to see how well it works. Maybe a combination of scraping and then a bit of isopropyl might work, but I would test it before using on the model.

 

Did you varnish  the deck? If so what did you use. If you used an oil based varnish then the isopropyl will be much safer than it would have been on bare wood.

 

For the CA shine use matt or ultra matt vanish. Just dilute it 50-50 with water and brush it on. When it drys it will get rid of the shine. If the spot of CA is particularly thick you may need a second coat on that area. See the link below, you can get it in much smaller bottles, just look for your local hobby store (the ones that sell D&D figures and Warhammer).

https://www.amazon.ca/Vallejo-Ultra-Polyurethane-Varnish-28-653/dp/B09RMTHG9P/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=vallejo+ultra+matt&qid=1699876988&sr=8-1

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Thukydides

[DB789]

On 11/13/2023 at 11:47 AM, chris watton said:

Carefully scrape off with a knife blade, and then re apply a drop of varnish. This is what I do, at least.

 

I normally suggest 0.1 natural for rats becase it is not nearly as stiff as the black, so less likely to pull the shoulds too much. The Indian Ink then also helps secure the clove hitches - but always paper behind the shrouds, to keep any splashes to an absolute minimum.

 

On 11/13/2023 at 12:04 PM, Thukydides said:

What Chris said should work.

 

You could use small amounts of isopropyl on a swab (I assume this is acrylic paint), but the problem with wood is you may still end up rubbing it around more than rubbing it off. you could try putting a few spots on the offcut of the deck and letting it dry for a few days. Then try the isopropyl on it as a test to see how well it works. Maybe a combination of scraping and then a bit of isopropyl might work, but I would test it before using on the model.

 

Did you varnish  the deck? If so what did you use. If you used an oil based varnish then the isopropyl will be much safer than it would have been on bare wood.

 

For the CA shine use matt or ultra matt vanish. Just dilute it 50-50 with water and brush it on. When it drys it will get rid of the shine. If the spot of CA is particularly thick you may need a second coat on that area. See the link below, you can get it in much smaller bottles, just look for your local hobby store (the ones that sell D&D figures and Warhammer).

https://www.amazon.ca/Vallejo-Ultra-Polyurethane-Varnish-28-653/dp/B09RMTHG9P/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=vallejo+ultra+matt&qid=1699876988&sr=8-1

 

Thank you both again. I used a sharp knife which initially left the deck appearing a bit scratched, but then retreated the area with Danish oil. Looks great thank you. I didn’t dare using isopropanol as the deck isn’t varnished.
 

Chris your guidance on the natural vs black 0.1mm makes complete sense. I think given my propensity for spilling Indian ink and wrecking the model at a late stage of build I’ll probably stick with the lower risk option of black 0.1mm line from Guterman which I used on Grecian. 

 

That’s excellent advice on the ultra Matt varnish for shiny CA spots rather than repainting which can get messy.  I’ll source some and use it in future. 

I haven’t varnished anything on Grecian, do I need to? I’ve used Danish oil on the bare wood parts which gives me the colour I’d like. I could experiment again with mixing some wipe-on poly using Glenn-UK’s recipe or I could go without. On Alert I just used the matt Vallejo varnish undiluted and it looks OK, that’s an option too. 
 

[DB789]

The fore and aft rigging on Grecian is complete (I’ll take some photos later), now only the yards on the foremast to add. These are made and painted but not fitted or rigged yet. 
 

So I’ve revisited the boat, which I’ve been putting off. Despite some early successes on the fishers using dragged oil to simulate wood on resin winch parts, I haven’t managed a decent looking dragged finish for the interior of the cutter. 
 

Initially I followed the instructions advice and went for white using the same AK white as the rest of the kit, but it looks quite stark and unfinished when fitted to Grecian. 
Note, not all the cannon are glued in place and need aligning. 

I decided instead to paint some of the interior green and the gunwales brown. 

Looks better, I think. Still a little touching up of paint to be done here and the boat needs to be tied down. I broke the tiller handle and had to fashion a new one, so I’ll likely add the rudder and tiller when the boat is in situ and finished. 
 

Once the foremast yards are added and rigged then I think it’s just the anchors left to do. Plus any tidy up and varnishing. 
 

Thanks again for all the help, advice and likes! 

 

[DB789]

Rigging progresses. Earlier in the log, I mentioned that Grecian is not much trickier than Erycina. That’s true of making the hull, mast and spars. The rigging, however, is more complex. 

I’m quite used to fore and aft rigging now, but finding the yards on the foremast trickier. As a beginner to this, each of the yards seems to have seven lines attached to it to keep it in position. To start with I didn’t dare tie off and glue any of them for fear I need to change the tension on them later. So for the topgallant and topsail yards I had 10 lines dangling down weighted by crocodile clips getting tangled up…. So I took the plunge and tied off and glued some. Hope I won’t regret it. 

Fore course yard is yet to be fitted, although the sling for the yard can be seen loosely tied on for now and floating around. 

I’ve just noticed that in these photos that the forward two cannons are not in place. They’re not glued yet as they may be in the way, the downside of this is that I keep having to rescue them from my little son’s Lego fortress. 

I’m finding the rigging a little confusing despite Vanguard’s excellent plans. The Vanguard plans  superbly layout exactly where each line runs from and too and how it should be attached, they couldn’t be clearer. What I’m finding harder is where each line should run relative to all the other lines without touching them - it would be almost impossible to show this on a plan without it becoming incredibly confusing and furthermore the neutral lines are hard to see against a white background in the photos on Jim’s incredibly helpful build log. The Petersson rigging book doesn’t help in this regard either as it breaks out each line individually too.  I’m sure with experience it will become clearer where they should run, for me it’s a learning curve. I think they’re roughly right so far. 
 

The other thing I find hard is looping the line around the belaying pins and tying it off, is there a good technique for this? 
 

Grecian visiting Alert. 

Thanks again for all the likes encouragement and advice. 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by DB789

[Thukydides]

1 hour ago, DB789 said:

The other thing I find hard is looping the line around the belaying pins and tying it off, is there a good technique for this? 

I haven't gotten to this point, but one thing I have seen people do is super glue the end of the line in place and then make the rope Hank separately and put it over the glued line.

[Gregory]

Here is a nice example of coil making from Glenn Barlow

 

Make sure you click on the arrow in the upper right corner.

[Glenn-UK]

The rigging looks great

[schooner]

One belaying pin trick that works well (depending on how tight the pins fit in the rack) is remove the pin from the rack, run the line down thru the pin hole, then glue the pin in place, cut off the excess line and add the rope coils when all the pins in that rack are used.

[Gregory]

@schooner

 

While that sounds like a great idea, I would hold off with any glue until you are sure the line in question will not need to be adjusted any further.

[chris watton]

I sometimes start at the belaying point and then work upwards to where the line is secured to the yard...

[Glenn-UK]

21 minutes ago, chris watton said:

I sometimes start at the belaying point and then work upwards to where the line is secured to the yard...

That is a great tip

[DB789]

On 11/22/2023 at 1:11 AM, Thukydides said:

I haven't gotten to this point, but one thing I have seen people do is super glue the end of the line in place and then make the rope Hank separately and put it over the glued line.

Thanks, I might try that. I try and tie it off with a figure of eight knot or two around both ends of the belaying pin - which I find very fiddly sometimes. Then glue it and cut it short.

 

On 11/22/2023 at 2:23 AM, Gregory said:

Here is a nice example of coil making 

 

Then later make the coil to hang over the top to pretty it up. That guide from Glenn Barlow looks very useful and I’ll use it when I make the coils. I haven’t done these yet for Alert either, not my favourite job… maybe I’ll be doing some coil making for both over Xmas. 

 

On 11/22/2023 at 5:36 PM, chris watton said:

I sometimes start at the belaying point and then work upwards to where the line is secured to the yard...

Thanks Chris, I’ll try that for my next build, the lines are already attached on this one. 
 

Glenn- Thanks for the encouragement! 
 

Schooner - I’ll try that on lines that I’m confident don’t need adjusting. 
 

All the running rigging lines are now in place, but Grecian’s rigging is quite a tangle at the moment. Too many unglued lines, but necessarily so as I want to make sure that each line has the right tension and that the yards are all aligned and parallel (which they are not at the moment). Some lines are not tied off at all and not taught, that will be fixed, hopefully. 

 

Getting this right is somewhat of a challenge for me. Is there a good practice way of approaching this, such as doing one yard at a time and then tying and glueing that yards, maybe starting with the top gallant and moving down? I’m hoping when I pull all the right ropes she’ll come good! 
 

I see that myxyzptlyk2003 has chosen to simplify the rigging on his Grecian from the plans, maybe I should have done the same, although if I can’t manage Grecian’s relatively simple rigging I’m not yet ready for Speedy which will be my next big build. 
 

Thanks again for all the advice and encouragement. 

[chris watton]

For the Grecian (and Duchess of Kingston) the rigging is simplified, as I left off clews, sheets, tacks, leech and bowlines, so the spars only have ties, lifts and braces, the bare minimum.

[DB789]

1 hour ago, chris watton said:

For the Grecian (and Duchess of Kingston) the rigging is simplified, as I left off clews, sheets, tacks, leech and bowlines, so the spars only have ties, lifts and braces, the bare minimum.

Thanks Chris, I thought that might be the case. I’m very glad that you have as Grecian is pitched at just the right level for me. Pushing me, but not defeating me! 
 

I was planning Speedy next, not DoK (2 masts vs 3, both on a small hull) but based on your comment above, would DoK be a more sensible natural next progression for me. I’m planning to build both at some point? 
 

Many thanks

 

Dan

[DB789]

Grecian rigging now complete and the boat fitted. Tightening the rigging whilst keeping the yards square was less tricky than I expected. 

 

I’ve kept as true as I could to Chris’s plans and Jim’s prototype, both of which are excellent. Only notable differences, other than a much less skilled builder, are: 

- no tack toggles in rigging and a few lines tied off to the wrong belaying pins

- different paint scheme for the boat - I couldn’t get a good faux wood finish on it.

- green vs black skylight - I preferred green. 
- slightly different cannon layout

 

Only remaining jobs on this build are:

 

1. Anchors

2. Flag halliard and flag aft

3. Rope coils 

4. I need to find a way to repair the broken winch handle (lost the part and tried CA to attach another piece of brass, but without success so far - I’ll add a photo later)
5. General touch up of paint plus waiting for a delivery of Vallejo ultra matt varnish to remove some spots of shiny CA. 
 

Thanks again for all the advice and encouragement. 

[James H]

3 minutes ago, DB789 said:

no tack toggles

 

I never bother with those too 😉

[chris watton]

I lied!

 

I did add Clews, sheets and tacks for the square sail yards! I didn't mean to, must have got carried away....

I did mean to leave them off completely...
 

[DB789]

On 12/1/2023 at 8:59 PM, chris watton said:

I lied!

 

I did add Clews, sheets and tacks for the square sail yards! I didn't mean to, must have got carried away....

I did mean to leave them off completely...
 

I was wondering how I was going to fit more lines to that mast and belaying points… somewhat relieved it wasn’t the simplified version! Thanks Chris. 

[DB789]

Grecian is complete, except for the rope coils. I’ve decided in the end to leave the front two gunports empty as the prototype does. You can just squeeze in two of the smallest cannon there but it’s a squash with the anchor cable too. 
 

I’ll do those and Alert’s rope coils over the next couple of weeks and then mark both boats complete. 
 

I haven’t varnished the copper tape either. I thought I’d leave that and see if it tarnishes a bit before doing so. 
 

Some photos. 

Yet another excellent kit from Chris and Jim. Thank you. She’s a lovely looking Baltimore clipper and I’m very pleased with how she has turned out. I’m ordering a very large case for her to accommodate that huge bowsprit. 
 

Ranger next for me, then likely the new version of Speedy. 
 

Thanks for all the encouragement, advice and likes. Much needed! 

[Thukydides]

Great job, she looks very nice. You are motoring through all the Vanguard kits.

[Craigie65]

She is a lovely ship; excellent, clean build. The flag is very realistic, how did you do that?

You have given me the inspiration to get back on with my current build - thank you.

Looking forward to your next log. 

[AJohnson]

Well done Dan, a great looking model.