HMS Sphinx 1775 by mugje - Vanguard Models - 1:64

[mugje]

22 hours ago, glbarlow said:

Seems ready for second planking to me, well done!

 

Thanks Glenn and everyone else for the likes! And everyone that has visited my buildlog this year, giving likes and comments/tips how to improve. Hope to see you next year again. I wish everybody a healthy and fun new year  ❤️

[mugje]

Okay...it's time for me now to place the lower stern counter into the right place, but I have a question...let's see if I can explain it.

Blue Ensign did a great job explaining how he tackled it, with temporary pinning the rest of the stern pieces. So you can see if everything lines up.

Sounded like a great plan, so I did this too. Need here and there a few little corrections, but in general this looked good and on the correct height (if it's not please let me know  )

 

 

 

 

 

 

I asume the first layer of planking needs to be on the same height (thickness) of the lower stern counter. One flows in the same height into the other, without elevation?

Well that is what I think it should be but if it's not by design, please let me know.

 

Because as you see in the lower pictures, you see that my first layer of planking is a bit lower than the stern counter. In the outer corners not so, but closer to the stem it is lower. I can put some filler to get it more level with each other.

 

 

Edited January 11 by mugje

[Cjames]

Hi Mugje.  Your planking and stern facia pieces look good to me.  Regarding your previous question concerning the apparent gap between the finish planking and the stern post, I had the same issue on my build and just inserted a strlp of pear to fill the area.  You can see it clearly on the photo below.

 

[mugje]

Yes I saw it in your new build log. It does look good with the filler piece in. Thanks for your input  

[Theodosius]

Can't help with your question, but nevertheless your model looks good so far! 🙂 

[glbarlow]

The overlap of the second planking should cover that. The counter is planked first then trim the hull side planking flush with the planked counter. The gaps should easily be covered, the first planking is a foundation, doesn’t always need to be a perfect match to the final look generated by. 2nd planking. The parts are generally oversized on purpose as every hull is different. You can also sand the counter piece to fit a little better. 
 

Do make sure the second planking is equal, by trial fitting, to the rudder at the stern post, generally this is more problematic than the counter.  I wish my Pegasus log wasn’t lost in the great 2013 crash.  

Edited January 11 by glbarlow

[mugje]

1 hour ago, glbarlow said:

The overlap of the second planking should cover that. The counter is planked first then trim the hull side planking flush with the planked counter. The gaps should easily be covered, the first planking is a foundation, doesn’t always need to be a perfect match to the final look generated by. 2nd planking. The parts are generally oversized on purpose as every hull is different. You can also sand the counter piece to fit a little better. 
 

Do make sure the second planking is equal, by trial fitting, to the rudder at the stern post, generally this is more problematic than the counter.  I wish my Pegasus log wasn’t lost in the great 2013 crash.  

Thanks Glenn, that's helpful 👍

[mugje]

Just sharing my solution how i've dealed with that little gap between the first layer of planking and counter planking. I used some filler to fill up the gap, also to give everything some strength because it's connected to each other. And at the counter planking I glued a extra 1 mm thick piece of pear so it covers the gap nicely. Now with testing a scrap piece of pear of 0.8mm (the second layer planking thickness) there no height difference anymore and it looks nice level to each other. Also if i'm not mistaking later in the construction the bottom part of the counter piece will be covered with a decorative strip of wood.

 

 

 

 

[mugje]

New update about what I've done this week:

 

Installed the prow, keel and rudder post, including their outer patterns/facings so to speak.

This gives the ship a whole new appearance.  

 

 

 

 

After that I glued the outer lower counter pattern in his perticular spot. This all went without trouble. Now I could measure the space between this pattern and the rudder post, so I could fill the difference with a thin piece of pear wood that I abstracted from the same sheet where also the outer patterns came out of. So there is no color difference  

Because of the thickness difference (the outer patterns of the rudder post and keel are 1mm thick and the supplied outer pear planks are 0.8mm thick) I maybe need a bit of filler underneath the second layer of pear planks against the rudder post and keel. Just to get them at a even height in the end. Will think about how to approach this.

 

 

Last step that I've done was soak the fore outer planking patterns and clamped them onto the hull. They have dried overnight and will glue them soon onto the hull.

A bit exciting these larger thin pieces of wood, so I need to gather some courage to get them in a good way onto the hull  

 

I also thought about the gunport stops and if i'm going to do them on all the gunports and not only at the ones with actual lids. I saw this idea in Blue Ensigns log and like the look when all the gunports have the stops, including those without a lid. So i'm going for those...it looks fairly easy to execute this small modification. The two questions after that were...glueing first the patterns onto the ship and install after that the stops? Or do them first and glue the patterns after that. I go with the first option because the outer patterns have a bit of extra "meat" onto the gunports...they are a bit smaller then the mdf inside frame so you have some wiggle room and you can sand them afterwards flush with the mdf framing. So it looks to me easier to install them afterwards.

 

Next question was...at all four sides a stop or only at the sides and the bottom? I found this topic:

 

 

 

And saw that both options look correct. It didn't seem if there was 1 correct answer, so then I choose for asthetics and will do all 4 sides because I find that look more appealing.

 

 

Edited January 22 by mugje

[Cjames]

Hi Mugje.  Re your question about gunport linings, I installed them on the bottom and sides of all the open ports.  I used material a little less than 1/32 in and cut each individual lining from a pre-painted  strip about 5/16 in wide.  See below.

 

I would complete the finish planking around the ports before installing the linings.  You may have to sand the inner surfaces of the ports somewhat to match the exterior planking, and if you install the linings before doing that you'll have problems.  I installed the linings the same way Blue Ensign did; bottoms first, then the sides.  As he notes, the bottoms are easy, the sides not so much.  Each side piece is angled top and bottom, and there are slight varIations in the angles for each piece.  Do the best you can and plan on filling some gaps.   Also one note.  On my build the guns sit fairly low in the ports and with the linings installed the cannon barrels barely clear the bottom port sills.  I would mock up one of the guns and test it with the material you plan to use for the linings before proceeding.  

 

Best regards.

Cjames

[mugje]

30 minutes ago, Cjames said:

Hi Mugje.  Re your question about gunport linings, I installed them on the bottom and sides of all the open ports.  I used material a little less than 1/32 in and cut each individual lining from a pre-painted  strip about 5/16 in wide.  See below.

 

I would complete the finish planking around the ports before installing the linings.  You may have to sand the inner surfaces of the ports somewhat to match the exterior planking, and if you install the linings before doing that you'll have problems.  I installed the linings the same way Blue Ensign did; bottoms first, then the sides.  As he notes, the bottoms are easy, the sides not so much.  Each side piece is angled top and bottom, and there are slight varIations in the angles for each piece.  Do the best you can and plan on filling some gaps.   Also one note.  On my build the guns sit fairly low in the ports and with the linings installed the cannon barrels barely clear the bottom port sills.  I would mock up one of the guns and test it with the material you plan to use for the linings before proceeding.  

 

Best regards.

 

Cjames

 

Thanks Cjames! That's a helpful post  . At first I wanted to do all 4 sides of the gunport, but looking at your close-up...3 sides do look good also, so maybe going for that too. 1/32 is about 0.8mm so you used the same material as the outer planking? My thoughts were to use 0.5mm thick linings (not sure how much inch that is  ). Will experiment a bit with different sizes, and what looks best.

 

[allanyed]

9 hours ago, Cjames said:

 Re your question about gunport linings, I installed them on the bottom and sides of all the open ports.

Based on contemporary models this is what appears to have been the common method.  I have only seen one that may have a stop on the bottom of the upper sill that forms the top of the gun ports, in this case on the lower gun deck.  This may be original or may have been a modern repair, not sure.    Regardless they were only about 1 1/2" thick (0.6mm at 1:64) for a vessel the size of Sphinx (20) 1775

Allan

[mugje]

7 hours ago, allanyed said:

Based on contemporary models this is what appears to have been the common method.  I have only seen one that may have a stop on the bottom of the upper sill that forms the top of the gun ports, in this case on the lower gun deck.  This may be original or may have been a modern repair, not sure.    Regardless they were only about 1 1/2" thick (0.6mm at 1:64) for a vessel the size of Sphinx (20) 1775

Allan

 

Thanks Allen for clarification...yeah there were a few examples in the topic that I posted, on contempary models but also for example the HMS Victory. But I do think i'm going now for only the bottom and sides of the gunports. It does look good and it's also a bit less work. 

 

I need to see if I have some 0.6 material laying around, otherwise I settle at 0.5 pear that I have in stock. That tenth of a mm...I can handle that difference  

[allanyed]

3 hours ago, mugje said:

But I do think i'm going now for only the bottom and sides of the gunports. It does look good and it's also a bit less work. 

I agree with you as this appears to be the way the ports were typically lined, no stop on the bottom of the upper sill.  A lot of modern models have the linings on all four sides but then again they are often flush with the planking outboard which makes no sense as then they would not accommodate the port lid within the port opening.  

Allan 

Edited January 24 by allanyed

[rvchima]

Hey Mugje,

I just ran into a problem where my rudder with the tiller arm wouldn't fit into the opening in the hull. I had to remove about 6mm of the rudder post to make it fit. I recommend removing the main rudder piece from the 3 mm sheet now to see if it fits. It will be easier to fix now than later.

[mugje]

11 hours ago, rvchima said:

Hey Mugje,

I just ran into a problem where my rudder with the tiller arm wouldn't fit into the opening in the hull. I had to remove about 6mm of the rudder post to make it fit. I recommend removing the main rudder piece from the 3 mm sheet now to see if it fits. It will be easier to fix now than later.

Thank you for the warning! I did have checked it when I dry fitted the lower counter. So I think i'm good there. But will check it again, because i'm a bit in doubt now haha. Double check wouldn't hurt 👍

[mugje]

Little update here:

 

I didn't had a lot of time to work on the Sphinx because I was renovating my garden these last few weeks, season is beginning and needed to do quite some work.

But these last few days I could do here and there some work on the ship  .

I have glued the large pear sidepanels onto the hull. Not super difficult, but some concentration is needed to get a good fit. Especcially the lower front pieces I found the most challenging. I do have a small gap here and there between the upper and lower parts, but overall i'm happy with the fit. Those seams are going to be covered anyway so it's not really a problem. The most important thing for me was that I got all the right curves of the hull and the pieces were glued firm against the underlying patterns.

 

I advise to have a sound clamping plan before you begin  it takes away a bit of the stress when you apply the diluted pva and the pattern begins to curl a bit.

So dry-fitting first helps with this.

 

 

 

 

 

After that I sanded all the gunports flush with the inner MDF frames and began a test fit with the gunport linings. Used 0.5 pear for this and are quite happy with the first results. They are not too much in your face but distinctive enough to notice. Also the 3 ports with the lids need some extra work, because the underlying pattern didn't lay flush with the MDF inner frames. So I need to fill up or sand down here and there. It's a bit different for each gunport, a little bit of extra work...but that's part of the fun  

2 done....18 more to go!

 

 

 

 

 

[Thukydides]

Looking good, nice careful work.

[Blue Ensign]

Nice work on those linings👍

 

B.E.

[mugje]

Thanks for the likes and compliments!

 

Just a small clamping tip regarding the gunport linings. Especially the lower cill was frustrating to properly clamp or push down until the glue would set, but clothespins help with pushing down the cill until it's dry. Just reverse them so they push against the upper and lower side. The side cills could be hold in place with larger tweezer clamps, but the clothespins can be used also for this.

 

Edited March 12 by mugje

[Theodosius]

Very clever, your use of the pegs🙂 

[rvchima]

The gunport linings look great, and your use of clothes pins as wedges is brilliant!

[mugje]

Update:

 

I finished all the gunport linings. I took me a bit longer then I expected, but to get it nice and clean...there needed to be used some filler here and there

But i'm happy  how it turned out. I painted them right away...I did use some masking tape around the edges to get a clean edge. First I used some clear varnish to seal of any gaps where the red could leak into. That worked quite well.

 

Next step was to install the pre-lasered planks below the gunport patterns, that did go well, not really something I can say more about it. I also added two more planks that should be the base of the lasered wale patterns. I measured them (about 14mm wide) so I covered that area. Now below these planks I can begin with the real test  

I want to leave the hull in the natural wood color, without the white color. So the planking journey begins from here. First step would be lining off the hull, mark the lines where the joints are going to be etc.

 

In the original planking pattern (you can find it in Blue Ensign's log of his Sphinx) there was a dropplank right under the wales. That would be a cool thing to replicate and makes the rest of the planking also easier. So I'm going to see if I can make that. That's why I found it important to allready plank the area underneath the wale patterns, so the drop plank would rest to the underside of it. Well...in theory  

 

 

 

 

[Thukydides]

Nice work. If you look at the planking expansion there is also a drop plank at the stern in the first strake.

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-83709

[wvdhee]

4 minutes ago, Thukydides said:

Nice work. If you look at the planking expansion there is also a drop plank at the stern in the first strake.

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-83709

That was just a proposal on how to add bulwarks to the quarter deck and for castle no? Sphinx never had that if I'm correct.

[Thukydides]

9 minutes ago, wvdhee said:

That was just a proposal on how to add bulwarks to the quarter deck and for castle no? Sphinx never had that if I'm correct.

It was taken in 1808 just prior to her breakup which was common practice to document the ship. However there are many reasons to believe that it is consistent with her appearance much earlier at least as early as 1799, probably much earlier than that.

Edited April 11 by Thukydides

[mugje]

13 hours ago, Thukydides said:

Nice work. If you look at the planking expansion there is also a drop plank at the stern in the first strake.

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-83709

 

Sharp eye! Didn't notice that...I wonder if it's only a way to "end" the top and butt planking prior to that drop plank. Not sure if i'm going to add that one, will think about it.

I not going to install the top and butt planking, so maybe it's not really necessary to place the drop plank there. 

 

Thanks everyone for the comments and likes! Appreciate it  

[mugje]

Small review:

 

I purchased some extra wood from boardsponser "Hobbymill.eu" so I have enough other dimensions then the 4mm kit provided pear wood. It would make planking a bit easier I have different width planks. I also purchased some boxwood for the decking.

 

My experience with the owner Vahur ( Wahka_est here on the forum ) was very positive. The guy is friendly and patient in communication.

The woods I received were just perfect, I didn't have seen any more perfect cut material in my life, so nice and clean. We also exchanged some photo's of my 

kit material to get a sort of matching colors of the wood in the kit, so it wouldn't be to much a difference in color. That worked quite well...it's ofcourse not exactly the same color because of screen settings etc...but it is pretty close  

 

He also added some extra material of other woods so I could feel and see what he has to offer in his shop. I really appreciated this gift 👍

So this and his reasonable pricing makes it well worth to purchase some wood here  

 

Did not include photo's of all the material, but a selection  

 

[DonSangria]

I'm really excited to see that you have chosen to leave the hull natural wood. I plan to do the same and hope my planking skills are up to it. I'm sure I will profit enormously from your log! Thanks a lot to share your experience with me/us!

[mugje]

2 hours ago, DonSangria said:

I'm really excited to see that you have chosen to leave the hull natural wood. I plan to do the same and hope my planking skills are up to it. I'm sure I will profit enormously from your log! Thanks a lot to share your experience with me/us!

 

Same as you...I hope my skills are also up to it 😆