wvdhee Posted January 21 Share #61 Posted January 21 5 minutes ago, Glenn-UK said: The manual comes in English as standard. The ,build manual is also downloadable as from the web site vanguardmodels.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Flirt-Construction-Manual.pdf Hey, thanks for answering. I assume it does yes if I order it directly from Vanguard, but to avoid tax and duty issues I was looking to order it somewhere in the EU 🙂 and on that German site mentioned they only ship it with German instructions. Quote Walter. Current build: Thinking about it Finished build: HMS Flirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nipper Posted January 21 Share #62 Posted January 21 I've only just found your log and I'll now follow! What a great job you're doing on your first build. I've picked up your anxiety about doing the rigging, and I see that some members have given you some good hints and encouragement. I just want to say this: I found the rigging to be the most enjoyable and satisfying part of the whole build on my first boat - which was Chris Watton's Alert. I took ages, but so what? Like you, I have Petersson's book, and John Harland's Seamanship was also brilliant because I learned so much about how a sailing ship worked. I really enjoyed making the rigging as complete and realistic as possible and I relied heavily on the wonderful build logs here on MSW, especially Blue Ensign's. The information here on MSW gave me lots of ideas on stropping, whipping, seizing etc. So much so that I plan to do Speedy as my next build after I've finished Sphinx, and to build her in full sail. My satisfaction with the rigging came from learning so many new techniques and realising that, yes, I can do it! If you can do planking as well as you have done, then you'll have a breeze with the rigging! Nipper TJM and oakheart 2 Quote Current build: HMS Sphinx 1775 - 1/64 - Vanguard Models Completed build: HM Cutter Alert 1777 - 1/64 - Vanguard Models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usedtosail Posted January 21 Share #63 Posted January 21 Nice to find your build log. You are doing a great job, especially for your first build. I am just about at the same stage as you in my Speedy build so I will follow along with your Flirt build. TJM 1 Quote - Tom - Current Build: Vanguard Speedy Completed: Vanguard Duchess of Kingston, Stove Project, Ships Wheel Project, NRG Capstan Project, Billings Half Moon, Dumas Chris Craft 1938 27' Triple Cockpit Barrel Back, Panart Santa Lucia , Model Shipways Constitution , MS Bounty Launch , HMS Beagle Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJM Posted January 22 Author Share #64 Posted January 22 On 1/21/2024 at 6:14 PM, Glenn-UK said: The manual comes in English as standard. The ,build manual is also downloadable as from the web site vanguardmodels.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Flirt-Construction-Manual.pdf Yes, the only reason I got German manual and plans is because i purchased the kit through a German retailer! I have printed the English manual, but I am still left with the German full size plans. This is obviously only my own fault and I am just very grateful that Chris has the manual available from his website! Glenn-UK 1 Quote Current Build: HMS Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJM Posted January 22 Author Share #65 Posted January 22 (edited) On 1/21/2024 at 6:22 PM, wvdhee said: Hey, thanks for answering. I assume it does yes if I order it directly from Vanguard, but to avoid tax and duty issues I was looking to order it somewhere in the EU 🙂 and on that German site mentioned they only ship it with German instructions. There are other German or Czech sites that offer the original manual for Vanguard Model kits, but I am not sure about the policy concerning links to those here. But Google will provide the anwer! Edited January 23 by TJM Quote Current Build: HMS Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJM Posted January 22 Author Share #66 Posted January 22 On 1/21/2024 at 7:11 PM, Nipper said: I've only just found your log and I'll now follow! What a great job you're doing on your first build. I've picked up your anxiety about doing the rigging, and I see that some members have given you some good hints and encouragement. I just want to say this: I found the rigging to be the most enjoyable and satisfying part of the whole build on my first boat - which was Chris Watton's Alert. I took ages, but so what? Like you, I have Petersson's book, and John Harland's Seamanship was also brilliant because I learned so much about how a sailing ship worked. I really enjoyed making the rigging as complete and realistic as possible and I relied heavily on the wonderful build logs here on MSW, especially Blue Ensign's. The information here on MSW gave me lots of ideas on stropping, whipping, seizing etc. So much so that I plan to do Speedy as my next build after I've finished Sphinx, and to build her in full sail. My satisfaction with the rigging came from learning so many new techniques and realising that, yes, I can do it! If you can do planking as well as you have done, then you'll have a breeze with the rigging! Nipper Thank you so much for all the kind words and the encouragement! It is truly appreciated! I am kind of looking forward to the standing rigging but am still a bit worried about the running rigging. I know I could stop after the standing rigging but I suspect I will not be satisfied with that 😉. Nipper 1 Quote Current Build: HMS Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJM Posted January 22 Author Share #67 Posted January 22 On 1/21/2024 at 8:31 PM, usedtosail said: Nice to find your build log. You are doing a great job, especially for your first build. I am just about at the same stage as you in my Speedy build so I will follow along with your Flirt build. Thank you for the compliment, much appreciated! Quote Current Build: HMS Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJM Posted January 23 Author Share #68 Posted January 23 Thank you all so much for the nice comments and likes recently 😊! This is such a great community! Log entry 19 Quite a bit of progress since the last update: I started by assembling the headworks - it went quite smoothly! Then I added the water level guage on the bow. I was worried about getting the alignment right and also about getting CA glue splotches on the wood that would be impossible to remove afterwards. My solution was to make a copy of the full size plan and cut out the relevant part AND the roman numerals. That made a nice template for positioning the small brass pieces: I held the small numerals with a toothpick with some wall gum (don't know the English term, in Danish it is unflatteringly called 'elephant snot'!). The result was neat and clean! Then I added the racks for the belaying pins and the pins themselves. This was frustrating work, as the racks repeatedly came off as I inserted the pins, no matter how gently I worked and even though I had used brass pins to strengthen the connection as per the manual. But I managed in the end. Then I added the channel parts, using some 0.8 mm copper wire to strengthen the connection with the hull and I have now managed to add all the deadeye strops and deadeyes for the starboard side. Port side will follow soon. I I am really liking how she looks now. There will be a bit of paint touch ups on the blue and on the wales where I have scratched the paintwork when pinning the deadeye strops, but nothing that won't be fixed easily. I actually also stated adding the tiny eyebolts around the gunports, but I am really struggling with the tiny parts and the paint is coming right off when I hold them with pliers. This is going to take a while and if anyone has any good tips for how to handle these tiny parts, it would be much appreciated! TJM JacquesCousteau, Thukydides, Vladimir_Wairoa and 7 others 10 Quote Current Build: HMS Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nipper Posted January 23 Share #69 Posted January 23 What a brilliant idea to make a template for fixing the depth guages! I have found glueing the little numerals really tricky on both my builds, so thank you for a solution for my next build. With the eyebolts, using a metal preparation before painting helps, but I've always had to do some touching up afterwards anyway. I hink it's more important to keep control of the glue than to worry about paint coming off. Nipper TJM 1 Quote Current build: HMS Sphinx 1775 - 1/64 - Vanguard Models Completed build: HM Cutter Alert 1777 - 1/64 - Vanguard Models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn-UK Posted January 23 Share #70 Posted January 23 You are making great progress and great workmanship. TJM 1 Quote Glenn (UK) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJM Posted January 23 Author Share #71 Posted January 23 58 minutes ago, Nipper said: What a brilliant idea to make a template for fixing the depth guages! I have found glueing the little numerals really tricky on both my builds, so thank you for a solution for my next build. With the eyebolts, using a metal preparation before painting helps, but I've always had to do some touching up afterwards anyway. I hink it's more important to keep control of the glue than to worry about paint coming off. Nipper Thanks! I did prime them black with a rattle can primer. Normally it sticks pretty well to the metal, but it cant take the handling I give it with the pliers during application. But I agree, I want to avoid too much glue spillage. And there is no chance of me handling the small eyebolts without a tool! Nipper 1 Quote Current Build: HMS Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJM Posted January 23 Author Share #72 Posted January 23 27 minutes ago, Glenn-UK said: You are making great progress and great workmanship. Thanks a lot, Glenn! Glenn-UK 1 Quote Current Build: HMS Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJohnson Posted January 23 Share #73 Posted January 23 Your Flirt is looking really good TJM, very clean looking painting. TJM 1 Quote Andrew Current builds:- HM Cutter Trial - Vanguard models (1/64), HMAV Bounty - Caldercraft (1/64), Hawker-Typhoon-1b-"Car-Door" - Airfix (1/24) Completed (Ship):- "Nisha" - Vanguard Models (1/64), HMS Orestes (Mars) - Caldercraft (1/64), HM Cutter Sherbourne - Caldercraft (1/64), TSS Earnslaw - Paper Shipwright (1/250), Puffer "Starlight" - Paper Shipwright (1/250) Completed (Non-Ship):-Blackburn Buccaneer S.2C - Airfix (1/48), Bristol Beaufort - Airfix (1/72), Mosquito B.XVI - Airfix (1/72), , Sea-Harrier-FRS1 - Airfix (1/72), Grumman F6F-5 Hellcat - Airfix (1/24), De Havilland Chipmunk T.10 - Airfix (1/48), Flamborough Head Lighthouse - Paper Shipwright (1/250) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usedtosail Posted January 23 Share #74 Posted January 23 I have found that using heliostats (clamping pliers) to hold the eyebolts while inserting them into holes to glue them works well without scratching them up or removing the paint. AJohnson 1 Quote - Tom - Current Build: Vanguard Speedy Completed: Vanguard Duchess of Kingston, Stove Project, Ships Wheel Project, NRG Capstan Project, Billings Half Moon, Dumas Chris Craft 1938 27' Triple Cockpit Barrel Back, Panart Santa Lucia , Model Shipways Constitution , MS Bounty Launch , HMS Beagle Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jereremy Posted January 24 Share #75 Posted January 24 Looking great! On my Flirt the plan is to omit the blue and keep that portion unpainted, but I'm really into the more muted color and now you have me reconsidering. TJM 1 Quote Jeremy Current build: HMS Flirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted January 24 Share #76 Posted January 24 On 1/23/2024 at 5:23 AM, Nipper said: With the eyebolts, using a metal preparation before painting helps, but I've always had to do some touching up afterwards anyway. I have gone to copper wire for rings and eyebolts so there is no painting necessary. I drill the hole in the wood a tad undersized so bolt fits tight, then once the ring and bolt are in place, I touch a little watered down liver of sulfur. They will instantly turn black and will not stain the wood. Allan oakheart and TJM 2 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJM Posted January 25 Author Share #77 Posted January 25 17 hours ago, allanyed said: I have gone to copper wire for rings and eyebolts so there is no painting necessary. I drill the hole in the wood a tad undersized so bolt fits tight, then once the ring and bolt are in place, I touch a little watered down liver of sulfur. They will instantly turn black and will not stain the wood. Allan That sounds smart! As a chemist, I approve! But that would entail making the eyelets yourself I guess. Also a fair bit of work! 😉 Quote Current Build: HMS Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJM Posted January 25 Author Share #78 Posted January 25 On 1/24/2024 at 4:59 AM, jereremy said: Looking great! On my Flirt the plan is to omit the blue and keep that portion unpainted, but I'm really into the more muted color and now you have me reconsidering. Thank you! But I really can't take any credit: I was inspired by the Sphinx build by @Blue Ensign, and basically copied his colour palette! It just looked so good to me! It was actually for a large part due to that log that I finally took the plunge and bought the Flirt kit, after having lurked here on MSW for a while. Quote Current Build: HMS Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJM Posted January 25 Author Share #79 Posted January 25 On 1/23/2024 at 8:33 PM, usedtosail said: I have found that using heliostats (clamping pliers) to hold the eyebolts while inserting them into holes to glue them works well without scratching them up or removing the paint. Very interesting and I think I understand what you mean, but can't find anything that seems suitable - can you send image or a link for the type of heliostat pliers you use? Quote Current Build: HMS Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted January 25 Share #80 Posted January 25 (edited) 3 hours ago, TJM said: But that would entail making the eyelets yourself I guess. Also a fair bit of work! Not really a chore at all. I make up a couple dozen rings at a time by winding the appropriate diameter copper wire around a drill bit that yields the right diameter ring then cut them with a small wire cutter into individual rings. The eye bolts are even easier. My go-to for the bolts is a round nose plier for bending the eye into a u-bend/circle. I just added 20 rings and bolts to 10 cover boards for the main hatch and it took about an hour total to make, install, and LoS the rings and eye bolts. Give it a try, I THINK you will find it pretty easy. Allan Edited January 25 by allanyed TJM 1 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usedtosail Posted January 26 Share #81 Posted January 26 Oops. I meant hemostat, like this one - https://a.co/d/8pynFKM Sorry for the confusion. TJM 1 Quote - Tom - Current Build: Vanguard Speedy Completed: Vanguard Duchess of Kingston, Stove Project, Ships Wheel Project, NRG Capstan Project, Billings Half Moon, Dumas Chris Craft 1938 27' Triple Cockpit Barrel Back, Panart Santa Lucia , Model Shipways Constitution , MS Bounty Launch , HMS Beagle Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJM Posted January 26 Author Share #82 Posted January 26 4 hours ago, usedtosail said: Oops. I meant hemostat, like this one - https://a.co/d/8pynFKM Sorry for the confusion. Ahh, thanks! Quote Current Build: HMS Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJM Posted January 26 Author Share #83 Posted January 26 (edited) Log entry 20 I have been working on all the deck fittings over the past few days, an I am very nearly there. Just missing the pumps and the anchors, thought the latter wont really be fitted until a bit later during the rigging. The manual would also have me assemble and attach the swivel guns now, but I will hold off on that, as I am sure I would bend and crunch them during the rigging! They will probably be some of the very last things to be added to the ship. This is the status now: I am very pleased with the look and relieved that the paint job turned out well as it did. And without any spills and drips on the deck! Phew! After I finish the two pumps, it is on with the masts - a very different part of the build. It will be interesting to work from the plans as opposed to the manual (though the manual still sets the order to progress and provides some helpfull images for reference!). Fortunately, I know where to ask if I have questions! TJM Edited January 26 by TJM Blue Ensign, DB789, Nipper and 6 others 9 Quote Current Build: HMS Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJM Posted February 5 Author Share #84 Posted February 5 (edited) Log entry 21 It has been a few days since my last update while I have been working on the main and foremasts. It took quite a bit longer than expected! There really is a lot of components on them once you get down to it. And this was also a small start on the rigging, as there is quite a few blocks that need to go on. I decided that I would need a small break from masts and booms, so I started adding the shrouds. I am reasonably happy with the result so far. I made a small mistake and used the 0.25 mm natural thread to tie the shrouds around the upper dead eyes - it should be 0.1 mm. I will just go back and replace them before I continue. This is the 90 hour mark of the build. Either I am working very slow, or the 70-80 hours build time listed in the manuel is without rigging! 😅. But no worries, I keep having fun and are already planning future builds in my mind 🤪. Question: I have a question though: the manual says to use the tiny 0.1 mm natural thread for the ratlines (when I get to that), however, are they not too thin? That would correspond to a rope diameter of only 6.4 mm! It may just me ignorance on my part, but is that not too thin? Using 0.25 mm thread, would correspond to 1.6 cm rope - but is that way too thick? BR TJM Edited February 5 by TJM Glenn-UK, dvm27, wvdhee and 5 others 8 Quote Current Build: HMS Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thukydides Posted February 5 Share #85 Posted February 5 (edited) 12 hours ago, TJM said: Question: I have a question though: the manual says to use the tiny 0.1 mm natural thread for the ratlines (when I get to that), however, are they not too thin? That would correspond to a rope diameter of only 6.4 mm! It may just me ignorance on my part, but is that not too thin? Using 0.25 mm thread, would correspond to 1.6 cm rope - but is that way too thick? If you take a look at steel (dated a little later than flirt's launch) https://maritime.org/doc/steel/tables/pages/131-BrigOf160Tons.php it gives the shrouds for the fore mast as 5in cir (0.63mm di at your scale) and the ratlines (on the next page) at 1in cir (0.12mm di at your scale). If you scroll through you will find he also gives the same for the mainmast. There is also available online an earlier version of steel's tables transcribed https://www.goldenhind.ru/steel_en/dimensions.pdf However, it does not have as much detail in the 1781 tables and the ship of 14 guns appears to be a ship rigged sloop rather than a brig. Edited February 5 by Thukydides TJM 1 Quote Current build: HM Cutter Alert (Vanguard Models) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris watton Posted February 5 Share #86 Posted February 5 (edited) The thread diameters are given by the suppliers, but I know 0.1mm is not really 0.1mm, it is thicker than that, so do not put too much stock in the diameters for the thinnest threads - what is suplied is as correct as I can get it. Ratlines were not thick rope as their job was to take the weight of one man at any one time. Edited February 5 by chris watton TJM, Thukydides and mugje 2 1 Quote Vanguard Models on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glbarlow Posted February 5 Share #87 Posted February 5 Nice looking Flirt, well done. The number one rule of modeling is time to build is not a qualifier, it doesn’t matter as long as you’re enjoying yourself. The .1mm thread looks fine as ratlines, definitely don’t want anything thicker. TJM, mugje and wvdhee 3 Quote Regards, Glenn Current Build: HMS Winchelsea Completed Builds: HM Flirt (paused) HM Cutter Cheerful, Lady Nelson, Amati HMS Vanguard, HMS Pegasus, Fair American, HM Granado, HM Pickle, AVS, Pride of Baltimore, Bluenose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJM Posted February 5 Author Share #88 Posted February 5 Thank you for the comments and the answers to my question! @Thukydides, what a great resource! At first I could not make sense of your numbers, until I realised that the 5in and 1in were circumferences! That will indeed give only around 8 mm i diameter, which is really quite thin! It also fits well with @chris watton's comment that the actual thread size is slightly larger than 0.1 mm. I was never actually in doubt that the kit is correctly designed, I just couldn't understand how thin these ratlines were - it is so great to have the creator of the kit explain, so thank you for that. And thanks @glbarlow, it is clear that 0.1 mm is good fit, it is just much thinner than I thought (based on no experience 😅). And I totally agree, the time spent matters not at all, as long as it is fun time - and it is! I just can't help gathering this kind of data for my own amusement and though perhaps other newcomers to the hobby might be interested. I don't think I shall keep this kind of track on hours spent on future projects. TJM glbarlow and Thukydides 2 Quote Current Build: HMS Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Ensign Posted February 7 Share #89 Posted February 7 You’re making a fine job of her TJM, very nice work.👍 B.E. TJM 1 Quote Current Build: HMS Indefatigable-1794-by-blue-ensign-vanguard-models-164-scale Medway-longboat-1742-by-blue-ensign-½”-scale Completed builds: HMS Sphinx 1775 by Blue Ensign. 1:64 scale - Vanguard Models Queen-Anne-Royal-Barge-circa-1700-by-Blue-Ensign Fifie fishing boat Lady Eleanor Muirneag-1903-–-a-scottish-zulu-fishing-boat-164-scale-based-on-the-vanguard-models-zulu-kit/ HM Cutter Alert 1777 HM Cutter Cheerful 1806 18th-century-English-longboat-by-Blue-Ensign-ms-148-scale/ finished 18thc English Pinnace by Blue Ensign-Model-Shipways-1:24 scale/ finished HMS-Pegasus-by-Blue-Ensign-finished-Victory-Models-1:64-scale/ Heller Seventy-four 1:150 scale - modified Le Superbe/Le Glorieux kit after Boudriot, waterline setting with sails. The schooner Pickle, Jotika pob kit 1:64 scale, my interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJM Posted February 15 Author Share #90 Posted February 15 Log entry 21 This is just a small update, as I continue to affix the shrouds. Not that much has happened, but mostly due to me being away all of last week so the progress only reflects a couple of evenings work. When I took the pictures, I had not noticed that Cochrane were lying at the back - guess he had a tad to much from a certain barrel... But it is very satisfying to see the shrouds I have completed on the model. I think it really moves the visual impression up another level. TJM whitejamest, wvdhee, The Gimps Chimp and 2 others 5 Quote Current Build: HMS Flirt 1782 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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