Byrnes tablesaw compares with Proxxon FET tablesaw

[kgstakes]

I was watching a video on the Byrnes table saw and they were demostrating all the different ways to use the saw and the attachments the Byrnes saw has.

First, I have a Proxxon FET table saw and have never used a Byrnes table saw.  And yes, Both are great table saws, probably Byrnes is the best for miniatures.  But this is what I found out by watching the video and comparing it to the Proxxon FET that I own.

 

Here are a few I seen about the Byrnes table saw compared to the Proxxon table saw.

 

Byrnes fence --  need to unscrew to remove  (  True ??  Loosen 4 screws to take of  ? )

 

Proxxon fence --  unlock the two knobs and it slides off 

 

Byrnes sliding table --  I seen in the video that the slot for the blade is wider than the saw blade.  ( seen in video that you need a backer board so no tear out on your work piece)  True??

 

Proxxon ---  as far as I know don't offer a sliding table.  I made one and the slot is the width of the blade so no tear out, no backer board needed.

 

Byrnes Miter table ---  1) do you have one?  Do you use it?  Often?  Worth the money??  (seems you have to be very careful when using it).

 

Proxxon ---  Blade tilts, so your work piece stays flat.  (one of the reasons I went with this table saw.  Do I use it much ??  Occasionally.

 

Byrnes blade change ---  Seems simple enough.

 

Proxxon blade change --- Seems simple enough.

 

Byrnes Zero clearance insert --- Metal  -- I'm assuming it's aluminum.

 

Proxxon Zero clearance insert ---  Plastic --  Wood blade won't dull as bad.  And its seems to stay flat and wood not catch on it.

 

Byrnes Miter gauge ---  Excellent -- from the looks in the video, very well made, adjusts easily, accurately.

 

Proxxon Miter gauge --- Sucks.  It will do the job but yeah, sucks.

 

Byrnes Micro adjustment --  Optional -- seems like it works very well.

 

Proxxon Micro adjustment --  Standard -- works very well.

 

Byrnes Miter gauge adjustable extension  ---  Looks very will built.  But you attach with screws??

 

Proxxon Miter gauge adjustable extension ---  Fair to good.  Loosen a knob and is slides off.  The stop on the fence is terrible.

 

Proxxon extension table.  Table works fine, the so called optional rip fence that is built into it.  Terrible, don't use it at all.

 

 

Overall on both saws. 

 

Byrnes has some great features, but I would like to see some of the attachments be easier to take on and off.

Proxxon has some great features, but accessories that came with the saw, could be of better quality.

 

What's your take on both of these saws??  I know many like their Byrnes and so to do many like the Proxxon.  

 

What could each manufacturer to better or what would you like to see changed?? or Improved on??

[Jaager]

1 hour ago, kgstakes said:

Byrnes fence --  need to unscrew to remove  (  True ??  Loosen 4 screws to take of  ? )

Is true

1 hour ago, kgstakes said:

Byrnes sliding table --  I seen in the video that the slot for the blade is wider than the saw blade.  ( seen in video that you need a backer board so no tear out on your work piece)  True??

"the saw blade"?   the width of possible blades ranges from the ones with carbide teeth to slitting/slotting blades that are too thin for doing more than that - i.e. even though the narrow width and resulting reduced loss to kerf on a rip cut makes them tempting for  use on thicker stock, they do not have the necessary properties to do a proper job of it.

I do wish that Jim had offered a second style of sliding table with a shorter right side so that the fence could be slud to the side instead of having to remove it.

A homemade version is easy enough but the Al and bells and whistles of the Jim version is cool.

 

1 hour ago, kgstakes said:

Byrnes Micro adjustment --  Optional -- seems like it works very well.

The Vernier dial defeats me a bit.  I am thinking about seeing if I can adapt a:

 

iGaging Digital Readout DRO 6" Travel X-Large LCD Display EZ-VIEW PLUS

 

but then - the NRG Thin Strip Saw Jig may make it superfluous.

[dvm27]

Probably a mute discussion as the Byrnes saw will most likely be discontinued due to Jim's recent passing. I would say in general that the Byrnes saw is machined to much tighter tolerances than the Proxxon saw. For example I found the Byrnes fence is virtually impossible to deflect while in use and their extended fence is a press fit with four steel pins. My Proxxon had a slight bit of wobble when the fence was pushed. Perhaps such tight tolerances are not essential to the average ship model maker but keep in mind that many other hobbyists (such as luthiers) require .001" tolerances and I don't think you could repeatedly achieve these on the Proxxon without some modifications.

Edited January 1 by dvm27

[Jaager]

1 hour ago, dvm27 said:

fence is a press fit with four steel pins.

I forgot - not screws but it is  four something- the fit is tight - a watch case opener or seam separator may cause less scarring than a flat screw driver

[Kusawa2000]

2 hours ago, dvm27 said:

Probably a mute discussion as the Byrnes saw will most likely be discontinued due to Jim's recent passing. I would say in general that the Byrnes saw is machined to much tighter tolerances than the Proxxon saw. For example I found the Byrnes fence is virtually impossible to deflect while in use and their extended fence is a press fit with four steel pins. My Proxxon had a slight bit of wobble when the fence was pushed. Perhaps such tight tolerances are not essential to the average ship model maker but keep in mind that many other hobbyists (such as luthiers) require .001" tolerances and I don't think you could repeatedly achieve these on the Proxxon without some modifications.

Greg: My understanding there is still interest in selling the Byrnes business so I dont think the final decision has been made yet on what is to happen with the business. Lets see what happens and what is announced.

 

Mike Draper

[kgstakes]

Jaagar

What I was talking about was the kerf in the sliding table.  I do realize that the kerf was made for different widths of blade but how many of us, use a different blade for cross cutting?  It's like using a full size table saw and using a rip blade for a cross cut -- You just don't do it if you want nice clean cuts.  There are blades for full size saws that do both but at a compromise.

The fence - to remove it completely from the saw you have to loosen 4 allen head screws.  To put on the higher fence, again, 4 allen screws.   Fence is probably excellent, just a lot of parts to keep track of when you remove it.  

If you're building a miniature for commission, time is money.  That's what I was trying to point out plus, the little allen screws could be lost.

[kgstakes]

Greg  (dvm27) wrote:

 

My Proxxon had a slight bit of wobble when the fence was pushed. Perhaps such tight tolerances are not essential to the average ship model maker but keep in mind that many other hobbyists (such as luthiers) require .001" tolerances and I don't think you could repeatedly achieve these on the Proxxon without some modifications.

 

Tolerances maybe true, it could also be true that you are pushing to hard against the fence to make the fence go out of alignment.  Or the fence on your Proxxon is out of alignment to start with.  I can get the tolerances I need for my miniatures.  Besides, you have to remember, these saws are not full size and the force of your finger on the end of the fence on the proxxon, is way more force than you could ever put on a full size table saw fence.  My fence on my full size table saw is mounted the same way the Proxxon is 'T' square arrangement.

 

I used a dial indicator on my proxxon when I first received it from the manufacturer and adjusted it to be parallel to the blade.  Which in turn is parallel to the miter slot.  I haven't had any trouble with the fence on the Proxxon.  

 

The Byrnes saw in no way shape or form is a bad saw, yes, it's probably the best saw you can get for making straight, clean cuts.  

 

Lastly,  I respect everyone that is on this forum and yes, I am an average modeler like many of us on this forum please respect that as well.

 

 

 

Edited January 1 by kgstakes

[dvm27]

4 hours ago, kgstakes said:

Lastly,  I respect everyone that is on this forum and yes, I am an average modeler like many of us on this forum please respect that as well.

 

No disrespect intended KG. I was just pointing out that Jim's saw is also being marketed to other hobby groups (machinists, horologists) where tight tolerances are more important than in ship model making. Apologies if my statement appeared disparaging. 

[dvm27]

9 hours ago, Kusawa2000 said:

Greg: My understanding there is still interest in selling the Byrnes business so I dont think the final decision has been made yet on what is to happen with the business. Lets see what happens and what is announced.

 

Mike Draper

I certainly hope that is the case Mike. Jim was not only an incredible machinist but also a staunch supporter of our hobby. He'd be a tough act to follow.

[GGibson]

14 hours ago, dvm27 said:

Probably a mute discussion as the Byrnes saw will most likely be discontinued due to Jim's recent passing.

 

I am one of those "new builders" that has been interested in adding the Byrnes saw to my list of shipyard tools, and have been waiting, like others, for some information after Jim's passing.  A few weeks ago, I decided to simply call Byrnes Model Machines to get an idea of what their plans were.

 

After a few rings, the phone was answered... by Donna herself.  (Hope she does not mind me relaying this story.)  After some consoling words and discussion of how Jim will be missed, we briefly discussed her plans for the business.  It was pretty clear to me that, after some time away to grieve and to do a bit of reorganization, they were looking at having the Byrnes 4" table saw back in production and selling sometime soon after the first of the year.  She asked to continue checking the website for when the saw is back on the order page.  Therefore, I am optimistic... and I'm first in line for when that happens!   

[Kusawa2000]

9 hours ago, dvm27 said:

I certainly hope that is the case Mike. Jim was not only an incredible machinist but also a staunch supporter of our hobby. He'd be a tough act to follow.

Greg: No argument from me on him being a amazing machinist and supporter of the hobby. Its my hope that a new owner can keep Jims products out there for purchase. His tools are invaluable for the hobby.. 

 

MIKE

[woodartist]

8 hours ago, GGibson said:

 

I am one of those "new builders" that has been interested in adding the Byrnes saw to my list of shipyard tools, and have been waiting, like others, for some information after Jim's passing.  A few weeks ago, I decided to simply call Byrnes Model Machines to get an idea of what their plans were.

 

After a few rings, the phone was answered... by Donna herself.  (Hope she does not mind me relaying this story.)  After some consoling words and discussion of how Jim will be missed, we briefly discussed her plans for the business.  It was pretty clear to me that, after some time away to grieve and to do a bit of reorganization, they were looking at having the Byrnes 4" table saw back in production and selling sometime soon after the first of the year.  She asked to continue checking the website for when the saw is back on the order page.  Therefore, I am optimistic... and I'm first in line for when that happens!   

How is that possible? I have been begging her for months  to put at the head of the list when I bought the variable speed sander. How about a coin flip at least.

[Thunder]

Proxxon ---  as far as I know don't offer a sliding table.  I made one and the slot is the width of the blade so no tear out, no backer board needed.

 

I would love to see your sliding table, can you do a feature on it please?

[Roger Pellett]

A story about a great local business making a High quality specialized product.  Readers invited to draw their own conclusions.

 

Evergreen Winterwear is a small local business located on Main Street in the tiny North Woods town of Ely, MN.  Employing local people, they make and sell very high quality outdoor garments for customers ranging from infants to adults.   The owner, wife of a noted arctic explorer, eventually grew tired and sold the business to an outside investor who promised “to take the business to the next level.”

 

Within month’s of taking ownership, he had closed the Ely, MN work room, laid off the workers, and outsourced all production.  All that was left was “The Brand.”  Dedicated customers, my wife included, were not fooled.  The new business closed within a year.  

 

Fortunately, in this case the original owner had the technical expertise to run the business.  She bought unsold equipment back at auction and re-established the business in its original form- making and selling a high quality product on Ely’s Main Street.

 

Roger

[kgstakes]

 

Thunder

Posted January 2

• #13   

Proxxon ---  as far as I know don't offer a sliding table.  I made one and the slot is the width of the blade so no tear out, no backer board needed.

 

I would love to see your sliding table, can you do a feature on it please?

 

 

 

 Tomorrow I will take some pictures of it and possibly a video how I use it.  
 

Basically the base is about 1/8” thick by whatever wide you want it (mine about a foot) and then I glue at the front and back a 3/4x3/4 oak as long at the base is wide (about a foot) and then glued runners to the bottom (and these are just slightly thicker than the miter slots) and then after that was done.  I raised my saw blade up little over 1/4” and cut the slot for the blade all the way through.  The oak pieces will hold it all together.

Edited January 16 by kgstakes

[kgstakes]

Sorry for the delay here’s a video of my sliding table for my proxxon get table saw.

 

 

 

[Gregory]

Video not working for me.  Anyone else?

[yankee clipper]

As well, can't seem to bring it up.

[kgstakes]

I sent it to my computer, lets try this again

 

 

 

[Gregory]

Great low cost option.

 

It reminded me I bought a sled for my old Microlux, that I need to see if I can find. 

[Gregory]

I have to admit my lack of expertise and ask for an example of when the sliding table is the best way to use the saw?

[kgstakes]

What I use mine for is basically any time I’m cutting small parts, I use the sled (sliding table).  The miter gauge is good for some stuff but if I want an accurate 90 degree cut I use the sled.  
 

Or if I want to do a miter cut on a small part and don’t want it to go flying across the room or drop on the floor (where you can’t find anything). I use the sled or I call it a sliding table.

 

 If you build one, take your time and make real sure the fence that you are going to be using on the sliding table (or sled sometimes called) is perfectly square with the blade. And the runners that go in the miter slots are perfectly parallel with the blade. And the runners are square with the fence on the sliding table.

 

 If you do that it will serve you well for many years.  I drilled a hole in mine to hang on the wall next to the table saw so it’s out of any harms way when not in use.

One last thing I want to point out that I didn’t in the video.  When you cut the slot in the sliding table, use only that blade when using it. That way you have a zero clearance and nothing will drop in to the blade area.

[Jaager]

1 hour ago, Gregory said:

ask for an example of when the sliding table is the best way to use the saw?

Cross cutting:    deck planking   and other parts where there is a max length.

 

Grattings:   the slots for the F&A boards.  If you freehand the first one to its proper width and glue a guide that is the thickness of the blade to the deck of the slide that is one slot width out, each of the following slots will be that distance apart.  The slot is likely to be wider than a the blade, the play of the known slot and the guide will allow for as many passes per slot as needed.  If you gang more than one blade until the sum is the slot width, then the guide would be the slot width instead of the blade width since no play is wanted.

 

A large block can be shaped to the pattern of the gun trucks.   If the blade can rise high enough, the individual truck sides can be sliced off as identical clones.

Just make sure that the end grain is at the front and back edges of the trucks.  The width of the original plank will determine how many sides per block.   Using the length of the plank allows for more but the grain orientation would be just plain wrong.   

 

[No Idea]

I think it's worth saying that if you are lucky enough to have the 18" table on your Byrnes saw the fence does not have to be removed to use it.  Without a doubt all of Jim's tools are the best that I own.

[Gregory]

3 hours ago, Jaager said:

...the slot is likely to be wider than a the blade, the play of the known slot and the guide will allow for as many passes per slot as needed.  If you gang more than one blade until the sum is the slot width, then the guide would be the slot width instead of the blade width since no play is wanted.

Have  you seen what MicroMark calls a Dado Cutting System for their tilt arbor saw?  Just some "Specially-designed" washers that make the blade wobble.

Seems it would be pretty easy to make your own.  Could be useful for gratings or other projects.

 

 

Edited January 18 by Gregory

[kgstakes]

My only complaint about the Byrnes saw is that the blade did not tilt.  Saw looks really really good for all kinds of cuts and the price is worth it but I just wanted the option to have the blade tilt rather than have a optional table tilt.

 

 I’m sure with a fixed blade you can get really accurate cuts that’s just the decision I made by going with proxxon.

 

i think both saws will do the job well just depends on what you want out need.

[Jaager]

11 minutes ago, kgstakes said:

My only complaint about the Byrnes saw is that the blade did not tilt.

I am content with the fixed 90 degrees.  The complexity and error potential that comes with the tilt function does not balance with very slight need for an angled cut with what I do. 

 

20 minutes ago, Gregory said:

Have  you seen what MicroMark calls a Dado Cutting System for their tilt arbor saw?

No.  It has been passing my notice.   The tooth count on that blade has me cringing at the thought of using it to cut a shallow slot.   I have a bunch of fine tooth - zero set blades that I bought over the years that can be stacked to do the same.  I bought them before I knew that they are not the proper blades for ripping.   Thurston and Martindale  - back from when Martindale kept them in inventory.  Jim was a stock recovery savior with the bushings that get 1" ID blades adapted to fit his 1/2" arbor.

I am thinking that the MM system would skew the blade at a fixed off center angle.  A wobble means to me that the blade would move freely along the arbor as it rotated.  That might be a very bad idea to do on purpose.   A loose nut on the arbor would produce that effect.

[kgstakes]

stack dado sets were available for full size saws the wobble dado was the only blade to use if you wanted dadoes for cabinet making.  Only the high end shops were using stack dadoes and they were out of most people’s and companies price range at the time years back.

 

The wobble blade works fine but you will not get a square dado cut by using it.

 

 Haven’t had the need for one but I did see that micro mark had them for sale.  As for the blade, I was thinking it was the washers that made the blade wobble so just swap out the blade to the one you like to use.

[Gregory]

 Right.    "Wobble" makes it sound like the blade is loose, which is not the case.  The washers are thicker in one area, causing the cut of the blade to wobble laterally..

I don't know why it wouldn't be square.   Maybe you could explain. 

[No Idea]

I don’t get this - if a blade does not run true then it cannot have a zero clearance insert. Without a zero clearance insert you will get loads of tear out. I’m not saying that it can’t be done but I just need someone to explain how this can be a good thing. If I need a wide cut I use a sled. I still own all of my fingers so I know that this works.  It’s one of those things that I need explaining. I’ve lost so much expensive timber through tear out hence my question.