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Posted
1 hour ago, Der Alte Rentner said:

Is it just me or are the gun deck ports slightly concave vertically?

 

The Spar deck ports look great.

I couldn't ignore this observation. Some heavy sanding has leveled things out quite a bit and I'm hoping the planking will. Solve the rest. 

 

I can't stress enough how much I appreciate the feedback. This is how one avoids looking at a model with 500 hours in it and realising you made a silly mistake at hour 20

 

Thanks Peter 

 

Haiko

 

 

20250404_193037.jpg

Posted
2 hours ago, The Bitter End said:

I am hoping that I can eliminate this with the 2 layers of planking I must still add over them.

Guaranteed.. I still can't believe how much shaping I had to do to get level planks, and that was just with the one layer.  You'll be fine.

  • 1 month later...
Posted (edited)

Good Afternoon everyone

After quite a long break from this build log it is finally time for an update. This is going to be a long one for a number of reasons so please be patient. Hopefully there is something in here for everyone.

I left my last post with the intention of planking the hull but I somehow got sidetracked by possibly this biggest challenge of this build…the stern.

As I am sure you all know by now, my intention is to try and build this vessel as she was when she was originally launched in 1797. Little did I know just how impossible this task would be. What you will see below is a combination of compromises, guesses and historical accuracy which I hope does a fair job of representing the spirit of how she would have appeared on the date of her launch.

I cannot stress enough just how much of a role @Marcus.K. has played in this process.  Without his patience and inuput(thousands of texts and over 600 shared images on whatsapp) this stern would have looked very very different. Many hours of discussion in the early hours of the morning before we went to work or Saturday afternoons while we had some time to relax have completely changed the way in which I see this project, the ship and Marcus himself. Many times we have come to a decision only to realise our mistakes and start again. I think we both learned a great deal during this project and I look forward to working with him until she is ready for launch and beyond. I have gained an enormous amount from my time shared with Marcus, but by far my greatest reward has been his friendship. Thank you Marcus  

One final note before I begin. This stern changed many times during this process. I will not include all of the failed attempts and as far as possible only show the “final version” of each step. There may be subtle or obvious changes between versions but the 3 images below are the very final permutation. 

image.png.3a3c240befa3a798320f53d04f459322.png

image.png.55e449a3d3d9977f36eef37ec3c2b6e6.png

image.png.54cd52307f41c271614ff58b2705fac9.png

 

There are several sources which we used for reference including eyewitness description, the writing of Tyrone G. Martin, general information about the styles and attitudes at the time and several artworks. That being said our main sources were the 1804 painting by Michele Felice Corne depicting the constitution at the bombardment of Tripoli and the so called Isaac Hull model which was built by sailors sometime near the period of the great chase in 1812 and presented as a gift to Captain Hull. 

image.png.b77a606d68940187ea7b7582a07f86fa.png

image.png.57cce9eb3c8f67d1fab2211ad6dcb6da.png

 Neither of these is a flawless source for a number of reasons and therefore required a large amount of interpretation. The painting by Corne is both somewhat unclear and borders on propaganda in many ways and is clearly riddled with inaccuracy. The hull model in the other hand was built several years after ger launch by sailors who had limitations of their own as well as time constraints to complete the model. There is however truth in both and teasing this from the sources was a big art of the journey.

One other simple yet notable source was the only real description of how the stern was meant to appear:

 “The Secretary of War, James McHenry, proposed that the sterns of all six

original frigates "should be all alike to shew they belong to one family and

represented by an Eagle in the Center with the Constellations around him,

suported on each Quarter by the figures of Liberty and Justice." [Brewington, M.

V. Shipcarvers of North America. New York: Dover Publications”

As mentioned before this is simply one interpretation which should hopefully show the elements of the constitution stern at the time which are most important. I look forward to all input on what might have been done differently but I hope that all can see the method to our madness.

 Below is a numbered reference image(in a rather strange order) which I will use to summarise the build and decision making process

image.png.f7839d65d793e4080c3b55048a56ee4c.png

1: Overall shape of stern

2: Lady Justice

3: Decorative arch

4: Great crest of the United states

5 “Real” windows

6: Lady Liberty

7: Quarter gallery decoration

8: Window decoration painted

9: Name “CONSTITUTION”

10: Window Decoration Carved

11: False Window

12: Hause Hole and wreath

13: Painted banner

 

 

1: Overall shape of stern

This was determined by simply comparing the shapes of the stern on the hull model and corne painting. Then the images were mirrored and overlayed they produced a surprisingly similar outline.

I began by tracing this outline and creating a template which I glued to a 6mm plank of pear wood. Once this was cut out I then repeated the process for the second layer of the stern. And finally planked over all of this with a layer of pear wood. Hause holes were then marked and drilled out. There is a certain belief that these hause holes may not have been open but it is clear that these served an important function and were almost always shown as open in contemporary models of other vessels. The final step was to steam and bend the whole assembly to produce the gentle curve the stern has. image.png.2d6b32b83781ea636521e540c77df97d.png

 image.png.8b1068bde0be8c78202c3f1edb7853e6.png

 

 

Once this basic shape had been made I added the uprights between the windows. I got this spacing from the ratios on the hull model 

image.png.3366a28e8de28dee2b670bbb447f232e.png

 

5: “Real” windows

The decision to make this a 6 window configuration was due to the clear 6 window setup in the corne painting and the hull model. There is also a reference as follows:

“8 Oct 1812 -- Five "drops" (carvings) replaced between stern windows. [Navy

Agent Amos Binney Summary Statement (with enclosures), 1-

31 Oct 1812, RG217, 4th Auditor's Accounts, Alphabetical

Series, Box 39, DNA.]”

This clearly shows that there were 6 windows in the stern at least around 1812.

The 6 real pains of glass as opposed to the possible 4 shown in the hull model was a choice made mostly due to the representation in the corne painting and the known style of the time.

The first order of business was to frame the outside of the windows and then install the internal frames. This was done with lime wood, a decision I deeply regret, it resulted in a very fluffy finish which was hard to fix. I allowed the wood to protrude to the back of the transom and be sanded flush later. 

 image.png.009b6ed5df691ca13fef91829c45b45e.png

 

It can also be seen in this photo that I sanded a taper below the windows and added a rough trim below the edge.

Determining the colour of the window frames was a difficult process. I originally painted them white but found the result to be too stark and the white paint too unforgiving

image.png.ba92c0eda0dc3fef317b37cf00b076fd.png

 

I then settled on a dark red brown with some red highlights to create depth.

It is also almost impossible to see but I installed a clear plastic sheet behind the windows to represent glass. An effect far more visible in real life.

 

10: Window Decoration Carved

Decisions on how exactly to execute these decorations were difficult, there is very little visible info on this, We ultimately decided to follow the general style of the time more than something specific. The outer drops were made by rolling out milliput on a layer of wax paper, I then cloated the milliput in a thin layer of olive oil and made a small punch using a folded section of soft drink can. This I then used to punch out leaves. Once these had dried I glued them down onto a sheet of wax paper with superglue into the desired shape and sanded then entire decoration flat and thinner before placing it on the stern(the image below shows the decoration before sanding).

 

  

image.png.4a3246e4db41a1d5f04802ce7fe45957.png

image.png.9b242cf84d9af5301375d693765aa35b.png

The center window drops were made by making a slight modification to a image found by Marcus which is period appropriate. (number 6)

 

image.png.ce7e21333a3293b3213cd8051475c555.png

This was the result of the modification for the 5 drops:

image.png.e65c8214ac1ad74a5bd6a45dfdf7b7c3.png

 

These were then printed at the correct scale, glued to a piece of pear wood and carved

image.png.b86f60495388ef901162645749b78f8f.png

These vertical wreaths were painted yellow and flanked by window trim 

 image.png.51fd1e78d086997685e65507f13deba7.png

7: Quarter gallery decoration

The quarter galley decorations were done in much the same way as the outer window decorations. In this case however some additional milliput elements were added to fill out to space, some simple balls to represent fruit and some other minor embellishments.

 

image.png.caa6f66efdb4c040120066a271ca5a69.png

3: Decorative arch

This arch was another situation where information was very scarce, the corne painting appears to show some sort of lighter embellishment. The hull model shows this as a blank space.

The first step was to bend 2 thin pieces of pear wood. I found this was best achieved by first using CA glue to secure one end of the arch and then applying wood glue and clamping the arch in place.

This was then filled with a decoration created by cutting up various leftover pieces of brass etched parts from my Pegasus and flooding them with silver solder to connect them and build up 3 dimensional structure as shown in X.kens build log.

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/11935-uss-constitution-by-xken-model-shipways-scale-1768/page/11/#findComment-410386

 

image.png.967531d3f70610225ee70197a403a626.png

 

 4: Great crest of the United states and 13: Painted banner

 This particular element took a vast amount of research to nail down.

I believe one can safely assume that the eagle appeared on the stern and one would hope it would be in this location. There is a reference to constellations requiring their appearance on the stern and I beliebe I see something like clouds on the hull stern and possibly even in the corne painting. The great seal of the united states appeared as follows from 1782:

image.png.4be4a114a1ba88323169fb56add62332.png

 

It officially evolved to a seal looking like this in 1825:

 

 

image.png.cc9db27348c4388a4e313917e28f9359.png

I realised that my date isn’t quite right but I like to think that this evolution was a gradual one and an eagle similar to this may have been carved onto the stern. There are numerous eagles of this style which can be found at the time. Below a great example:

image.png.942e779f6e98b51f2c624b50fb3dd57d.png

 

 

 

One interesting quirk of the eagle of the constitution on the hull model is that it appears to be facing “sinister” (viewer right) the normal convention for the seal is for the eagle to be facing “dexter” viewer left. The eagle represented is somewhat unclear and it is possible that the item which appears to me to be the head and neck may well be the scroll it carries but who knows! The eagle does however face sinister from at least 1908 on the restored constitution so I went with this design.

Above the eagle I placed clouds carved from pear wood and a sphere above the eagle showing the 13 stars representing the 13 states. A little titbit of information is that there were already 17 states at this stage but that is neither here nor there. 

 image.png.b88046ef6f8913d6e143ccce842936d0.png

On the corne painting it appears that there is some white in the area of the eagle, this could well be the banner the eagle holds. This also presented one of 2 opportunities to show that the decoration on the stern may well have been at least partially painted. I opted to paint this banner using white paint with a small amount of red to indicate the text, followed by a light brushing of yellow to blend the colour into the rest of the stern. 

image.png.e09e9cd175c91d51c2e5cf53662b5e98.png

 

 2: Lady Justice and 6: Lady Liberty

 These elements were copied from baroque style art for their basic shape and carved in pear.

 Lady justice holds a sword and mirrored shield with a mask below her feet.

image.png.23c2ffdfe012f0a205c341f941a7942b.png

image.png.fd19389b044259531f00c52017c23e14.png

Lady liberty holds a chalice feeding the eagle(another possible motivation for the sinister facing eagle) and she has a sword below her feet. 

These ladies were painted yellow as with the rest of the elements but the shield was given a light white coat to show the mirrored shield.   

image.png.ae6dc8082d83b5266d66e6b01467ed70.png

image.png.535832d55055568dba0c3116ed0fbb1e.png

 Once all these parts had been glued to the transom with a combination of wood glue and CA glue the whole was spraypainted black using rustoleum matt black primer

image.png.7dba456f402f626672d06ff7892744db.png

9: Name “CONSTITUTION”

The name of the ship was apparently painted on the stern. There is limited evidence to work from so I simply copied a popular style from the time. This was a pretty laborious process but it was made easier by printing the name at the correct size and then taping it just above the place where the name should go. This allowed me to copy eat letter directly in its correct position. The font I used is called Castellar with a single space between letters. Its not perfect but good enough at a distance.

image.png.3b3ad9a0e23da3e9bcd923cd1d743912.png

8: Window decoration painted

This little element isn’t too exciting, it was just another opportunity to show that the decoration of the stern may well have been a hybrid carving and painting scenario. These are meant to represent small “bows” used to tie the decorations to the arch close to the top of the window.

image.png.5fbff228bf3503bc2bb712bb8c0979bb.png

 

12: Hause Holes and wreath

The Hause holes were surrounded by wreaths made with the same technique as the outer window decorations. Their position was a subject of some debate and I moved them 3 times. Ultimately their final location was the result of a combination of practical considerations, historical evidence and aesthetics.

image.png.7c3d6931fe23b29d242e8cc8002c26c6.png   

Final position on the vessel:

The final placement of the stern on the vessel was determined by looking at corne, hull and some other contemporary models. 

image.png.3b3a259778cbf68b8d508d853c116b07.png

 This placement requited the removal of a small amount of the bulwark and removing the stern planking which was then glued directly to the transom to allow for the curvature of the stern. At a later date the taffrail will be installed, but that is a project for another day. 

image.png.308b91aa4ab2dd5f772dc7e32d92985b.png 

 I think this post has only touched the surface of what was done on this portion of the build. If anyone would like more information about something specific or more detail on how the various parts were made please feel free to ask.

As always any comments or criticism is most welcome.

Kind regards

 T.B.E.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by The Bitter End
Posted

I loved the detail you put into your description and images of how and why you did what you did. This was not easy by any means, and I admire your skills to pull this off. My hat is off to you!!!

 

Jon

Current Build: Model Shipways USS Frigate Constitution
 
Past Builds:    Bob Hunt's kitbash of the Mamoli Rattlesnake

                         Model Shipways Typical Ship’s Boat for the Rattlesnake

                         Mini-Mamoli solid hull British Schooner Evergreen
                         Model Airways Albatros D.Va - 1917, The Red Baron's Forgotten Fighter

 
​Member: Nautical Research Guild

Posted

Absolutely exquisite work, TBE!  Appreciate your background historical explanation and interpretation.

Gregg

 

Current Projects:                                                             Completed Projects:                                                                 Waiting for Shipyard Clearance:

 Santa Maria Caravelle 1:48 - Ships of Pavel Nikitin     Norwegian Sailing Pram 1:12 - Model Shipways                    USS Constitution 1:76 - Model Shipways

                                                                                              Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack 1:24 - Model Shipways        Yacht America Schooner 1851 1:64 - Model Shipways 

                                                                                              H.M. Schooner Ballahoo 1:64 - Caldercraft                             RMS Titanic 1:300 - OcCre (May now never get to it)

                                                                                              Bluenose 1921 1:64 - Model Shipways

Posted (edited)

This is the first time I see that last photo - with the stern at the hull - and it´s just incredible !! 

What a beautiful sight !

 

I said it before and I have to repeat it here: this cross-hemispherical cooperation is a lot of fun and how you, T.B.E. realized for what I before just had a rough idea was and still is a miracle. I have to state that T.B.E. really had to shorten that explanation about how we found the presented layout. As he mentioned - it was journey for several weeks with a lot of exchange of information, concerns, rethinking, again studiing the sources, even finding new ones (!), rethinking the old interpretation .. Just as an example: T.B.E. did not like the appearance of the white window frames - and while discussing the possible alternatives and their likelyhood we recognized that the 1803 Cornè painting - done before the 1804 Tripolis-paintings showing that stern! - showed red window frames in the galleries. Accidently we stepped over another representation of the ship which - it seems - by now has not been identfied as USS Constitution. And even if it is not Constitution - the similarities are really obvious ! - it at least shows that red windows on a big American frigate are a likely alternative:

1803FeliceCorne-East_India_Marine_Hall-_Painting_in_PEM-Salem_MA.thumb.jpg.a9e17f46361d35f4ea4dc52e000f8ac1.jpg

This is a painting in Peabody Essex Museum in Salem, MA, USA. It was done by Felice Cornè in 1803 - the year he did that famous side view. 

image.png.ce68b3cebdd6f43d60e54bc7116aca06.png

Even if the ship was just intended as a "typical" American frigate - it shows red window frames we believe the ship had in its earlier years. From historian point of view it is not a proof - as both sources are Cornè and one of the sources even does not for sure represent Old Ironsides. But we think in a case like this, where not that much sourves are available the principle of Occam´s Razor must be valid.  

 

Or if you take the name "Constitution" on the ships stern: Cornè showed it like this:

image.png.51154ca889d23fbc7ee98551dcc0c248.png

 and in his 1803 side view - he presented the name like that below the ship:

image.png.af5b160d6112331e3592ee57eb6b2f6e.png

William Bass (Author of "Old Ironsides - Superfrigates of the many faces") calls this font "roman" .. And what T.B.E. did by hand to represent this on the model is justs incredible! 

 

 

I will as soon as possible try to recollect and write down that interesting journey and our findings in @uss frolick "stern view" -thread - as we did not only reconstruct the 1797 stern in more details - but also found out more about the 1812 stern worth sharing.  

 

 

What impressed both of us a lot: when we were "theoretically" considering the likelyhood of this or that detail - found a desicion based on pure ration ... and T.B.E. realized it on the model it always added an even better balance and beauty to the structure. .. as if that new feature really belonged to that position! As if the beauty itself wanted to be a proof. This focus on "function", "likelyhood" and "ratio" leads to a very credible and plausible design - which also has the beauty of a baroque stern. 

 

That was a unique experience! Thanks a lot, T.B.E.. Looking forward to our next steps! 

 

Edited by Marcus.K.

"Pirate Sam, Pirate Sam. BIIIIIG deal!" Captain Hareblower aka Bugs Bunny

Posted

Those similarities are very interesting, but Corne's East India Marine Hall ship painting does not fly a pennant, the mark of a naval vessel in commission, but what appears to be a big merchant house flag. It could be one of the big Salem East-indiamen like the Belisarius, America or Grand Turk. The (third) America was the former 28-gun French Corvette La Blonde.

Posted

Thank you to everyone for their kind comments, It makes all the hard work worth it to see it appreciated by people who really understand the challenges.

 

As a side note, What Marcus shared about the window colour and the East India Marine Hall, is a great example of just how many facets there were to this investigation and how many things we looked at and discussed. In fact i completely forgot to mention that we also looked at the color shown in the quarter galleries in the 1803 painting by Corne. This was in fact the final colour used to colour match the stern windows. 

 

image.png.4b05277930244beb1687ba5c64460e26.png

Cheers!

 

TBE

Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, uss frolick said:

Those similarities are very interesting, but Corne's East India Marine Hall ship painting does not fly a pennant, the mark of a naval vessel in commission, but what appears to be a big merchant house flag. It could be one of the big Salem East-indiamen like the Belisarius, America or Grand Turk. The (third) America was the former 28-gun French Corvette La Blonde.

Hey @uss frolick .. you nearly got me 😜 ... That flag seemed really to indicate: "not a warship".. but.. 

 

Tonnerre de Brest!!!

image.jpeg.51dbcaf6093a19db58dd8f2521c35285.jpeg

The photo of that painting was done not very well - as the flags are partly covered by reflections of the flashlight.

If you see another representation of that scene - on the book cover of George H. Schwartz´s interesting book, you´ll notice a pennant on top.

 

I guess this indicates: Navy ship in duty - maybe "greeting" the Society with that 2nd flag?

image.thumb.jpeg.92230e526b4e8e75ac89368c8616d87f.jpeg

See here:

image.png.cb24da77d9ee1a0f4e24850dc9925a4a.png

A men-o-war ?

 

.. with guns stored inside? 

I believe to remember having read in Tyrone Martins "a most fortunate ship" that during the early travels of Old Ironsides the guns were stored completly inside - which caused a lot of issues concerning the available space on the gun deck - although the guns were a bit shorter than needed for the battle. Later then the configuration was changed and the gun ports (still not hinged but removeable) got this split which allowed the guns to be stored "outside" while having the ports closed and sealed. That - and the dark shadow Cornè chosed to set the side into - would explain the lack of guns at the ships side.

 

A thesis .. What do you think, Ladies, Gentlemen?

 

also very interesting is that design of the US Flag at the stern. I know there were many different ones during the times - depending on how much states joined the union - and of course the early "finding phase".. but I never saw anyhting like that?

Edited by Marcus.K.

"Pirate Sam, Pirate Sam. BIIIIIG deal!" Captain Hareblower aka Bugs Bunny

Posted

Pennants can also be seen on merchant ships; at least I know of two depictions of the famous sloop Union (1794?) with a pennant. I thought this might be a home pennant upon arrival in her home port, but she also carries this pennant in Nootka Sound.

50 % sloop union nootka sound.png

Posted

Hi @Marcus.K., regarding the flag, here's a possibility from The many faces of the American flag.  Note the white stripes on top and bottom:

image.png.8f7646996332b2c77936df1b524002b2.png

Midshipman 3/c (Ret.) Bob

 

Current Build:      Model Shipways USS Constitution

Previous Builds:  Model Shipways Lowell Grand Banks Dory

                               Model Shipways Norwegian Sailing Pram

                               Model Shipways 18th Century Long Boat

 

Posted (edited)

I'm amazed by the depth of knowledge and keen interest on the part of the naval historians at the MSW site.  I learn something new here every day..

Edited by Der Alte Rentner

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