HMS Ariadne 1776 (based on HMS Sphinx) by wvdhee – Vanguard Models – 1:64 - after 1793 refit as 24 gun 6th rate

[wvdhee]

Hello y'all and a very happy, ship building filled, new year!

 

 

I have been busy with life, which prevented me to be busy with ships (I hate it when I mix up my priorities), but it's a new year and time for a new ship 🙂

 

With HMS Flirt done, it’s time for something a little bigger, one more mast, few more guns, carronades to top it off and that awesome well-known, yellow-black paintjob. Wanting another ship from Vanguard Models (you all know why) that would leave me with just one choice, the Indefatigable. But time, space and budget are preventing me from doing that one for now. And with HMS Surprise (which may tick all the boxes 😉) on the (maybe far?) horizon, I have only one option; a slightly modified version of the ship I always wanted to do anyway, HMS Sphinx .

Of all the 10 Sphinx class ships built, I think Ariadne had the most lustrous career. Launched in 1776, she sailed straight for North America to fight the revolution. She took several American ships, including the Alfred, the first flagship of the Colonial navy. She was present in a couple of sea battles against the French in the Caribbean (she even got her own St Lucia stamp).

 

 

After some time in home waters, she underwent a major refit in 1792/1793 and sailed for the Mediterranean to fight the French again. Probably not in time for the destruction of the French fleet at Toulon, she ended however up in the squadron of a certain H. Nelson, who then was the captain on the Agamemnon. She was present and played an important role in the Battle of Hyères Islands (1795), cruised the Med with Nelson’s flotilla, joined now by HMS Speedy (yes, that one) before sailing back to home waters, where she remained active until her end in 1814. One fun fact is that in 1798, while participating in an action at Ostend, she came across the now also well-known HMS Harpy 😉

 

During the major refit HMS Ariadne underwent in 1792/1793, 4 more guns (4-pounders) were added, 2 on the forecastle and 2 on the quarterdeck. The Bulwarks were heightened and some (4 or 6 depending on source) carronades were added as well. My take is 4 and all of them on the quarterdeck. A drawing with a proposal to change HMS Sphinx in much the same way, only shows one gun opening on the forecastle and it’s probably a bit tight there as well to place more guns/carronades. (https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-83709)

The guns and carronades I ordered already a while back from Vanguard Models and I have enough wood and scrap pieces left from the Flirt for the higher bulwarks, I just don’t know yet how to do it 😊

Sad thing is that I won’t be using the photo etched decorations from the Sphinx kit, but they might be used in another build some day.

And of course I need a new figurehead, preferably Ariadne 😉 but 3D printing makes everything possible these days.

In theory, I guess the stern decorations weren’t identical to the Sphinx’s, but I am hoping history will forgive me for using them anyway 😊

 

Well, I ordered the Sphinx today, so in a few days, a week maybe I will start normally! 😃

There’s plenty examples of how to build a Sphinx here already, so I won’t be posting every step, but I plan to share where I deviate from the original.

[TJM]

The very best of luck with this project, I am sure it will be great! And I will follow your journey with great interest! 

[wvdhee]

And there we go 😁

 

[Thukydides]

Good luck, I will be following along.

 

On 1/4/2025 at 6:57 PM, wvdhee said:

During the major refit HMS Ariadne underwent in 1792/1793, 4 more guns (4-pounders) were added, 2 on the forecastle and 2 on the quarterdeck. The Bulwarks were heightened and some (4 or 6 depending on source) carronades were added as well. My take is 4 and all of them on the quarterdeck.

I assume you got this info from Winfield. I am not sure I trust him on this one in any case it is certainly missing some info. The Sphinx class were ordered to be modified to include 8 12-pdr carronades in 1779, but the actual implementation was a bit more varied. The earliest Ariadne could have been given them is 1780, but at the very least Ariadne was equipped with 8 carronades in 1782 as she appears on the Middleton list (see the appendix of my Perseus draft document). She also appears on a 1793 list (which is much smaller as many ships had gotten rid of carronades) showing her still with the 8 12-pdr carronades (again see the appendix).

 

In 1797 there is was a request to replace 4 of the carronades with 4-pdr long guns though it is not clear from the catalog description (I don't have the actual document) if this meant going down to 2 carronades or 4. You could probably make an argument for either and it might be worth your while getting the original document as it shouldn't cost that much (being likely only a few pages). In any case the rating change to a 24 gun ship likely didn't occur till 1797.

 

Edit: if you are getting your info from threedecks.org, I am in the process of revising many of the Sphinx class there so you may see some changes as I get round to making edits.

 

On 1/4/2025 at 6:57 PM, wvdhee said:

A drawing with a proposal to change HMS Sphinx in much the same way, only shows one gun opening on the forecastle and it’s probably a bit tight there as well to place more guns/carronades. (https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-83709)

This is actually the survey done before Sphinx's breakup. Though it likely reflects what many of the ships looked like late in their careers. Earlier they tended to only have the quarterdeck built up while the forecastle was left as it originally was. This was true of Perseus at least up until 1790 and may very well have been true of Ariadne.

 

On the question of the figurehead, there is a lines plan for Ariadne, just not digitized. If you have the money it might be worth ordering a digital copy from the RMG as it may very well have the figurehead and decorations on it. If it was me I would give it a shot.

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-83731

 

If you have any specific questions I am happy to share some of my research with you. I have a lot more done behind the scenes, it is just not yet fully complete and ready for release.

Edited January 14 by Thukydides

[brunnels]

Looking forward to seeing a later version of the Sphinx class with built up bulwarks and more guns, I will definitely be following along. 

[wvdhee]

One of our great researchers; Thukydides showed me this painting (called "Ships of the line off Dover"). It's made by Samuel Atkins, somewhere between 1787 and 1808. It clearly shows one (or two) 6th rates. A quick deduction, like what 6th rate classes were active in that time frame and number of windows and gun ports, leads to the conclusion that it is, or are, most probably Sphinx class ships! If true, it's imho the best depiction out there of these ships, albeit the inaccuracies. Anyway, it shows the forecastle bulwarks still original, so I will probably don't heighten them then.

 

 

[mtbediz]

Great start, I will be following.

[wvdhee]

The build has started!

The mdf construction of the hull goes really fast, it all fits perfectly of course, but gunport parts are a bit fragile I found out.

While waiting for glue and paint to dry I started the construction of one of the 3 small boats, the 28ft pinnace. I've never done a small boat like this and really wanted to try, so I wasn't tempted to buy the 3D printed alternatives. I guess a dozen or so small boats further in my 'career' I will definitely get the printed ones 😉 But so far so good...

 

 

[wvdhee]

The pinnace. 

Ok, not as good as James's, but I'm quite happy with my first go at small boats 😊

 

[dunnock]

An excellent result Walter on these delicate little boats.

David

[wvdhee]

Started planking 🙂

I also decided to paint the walls of the captain's cabin white.

 

As expected it's all splendid Vanguard Models quality and it all builds quite easily until now. But the tops of the bulkheads are really fragile and I snapped a few in my clumsiness. Not a big problem though.

 

Edited January 28 by wvdhee

[brunnels]

What type of push pins are those, they look very useful for planking. 

[wvdhee]

42 minutes ago, brunnels said:

What type of push pins are those, they look very useful for planking. 

They are absolutely perfect yes. Ordered them from Krick in Germany.

 

[wvdhee]

First planking done! Apart from some sanding obviously.

I tried the plank bending tool (that squeezer thing that cuts the planks on the inside) for the curves at the stern, but to no avail. Squeezing too soft and it doesn't bend, too hard and you cut it in two and if I managed to dose the squeezing power and had something bendable, it got all mushy with the glue. So I reverted to my good old bending iron 🙂

 

I also advanced with the little pinnace, I really like the fiddling with these little boats 🙂 great there are two more to make!

 

[Blue Ensign]

Coming along very nicely Walter, that planking will sand down  to provide a good base for the second layer.

Nice work on the Pinnace, tricky little beggars they are.

 

B.E.

[wvdhee]

19 minutes ago, Blue Ensign said:

Coming along very nicely Walter, that planking will sand down  to provide a good base for the second layer.

Nice work on the Pinnace, tricky little beggars they are.

 

B.E.

Thank you! I really like the small boats, so far 😉

I'll be watching your coppering of Harpy intensely, as I will be copper plating my ship too and have never done it before..

 

[brunnels]

5 hours ago, wvdhee said:

tried the plank bending tool (that squeezer thing that cuts the planks on the inside) for the curves at the stern, but to no avail. Squeezing too soft and it doesn't bend, too hard and you cut it in two and if I managed to dose the squeezing power and had something bendable, it got all mushy with the glue. So I reverted to my good old bending iron 🙂

 

I tried out that cutting planking tool as well on my sphinx.  Once I got the hang of the tool it worked pretty good for its purpose, I found that quantity and spacing of cuts matters more than the depth of the cuts.  My biggest issue with the tool is if you sand too much the cuts start to show through the wood.  I'm not the best at planking so I had to sand my stern quite a bit and a lot of my cuts started to become visible.  I think the tool is fine for the first layer, but I won't use it beyond that on my next model.

 

As you can see my stern still needed quite a bit of sanding at the time and the cuts were already starting to show through.

[wvdhee]

59 minutes ago, brunnels said:

 

I tried out that cutting planking tool as well on my sphinx.  Once I got the hang of the tool it worked pretty good for its purpose, I found that quantity and spacing of cuts matters more than the depth of the cuts.  My biggest issue with the tool is if you sand too much the cuts start to show through the wood.  I'm not the best at planking so I had to sand my stern quite a bit and a lot of my cuts started to become visible.  I think the tool is fine for the first layer, but I won't use it beyond that on my next model.

 

As you can see my stern still needed quite a bit of sanding at the time and the cuts were already starting to show through.

 

Ah yes, there's that too, haven't even thought about that, but I am glad I abandoned that tool 😉

 

[wvdhee]

Second planking done! 😊

Quite happy with it actually, there's still some sanding to do to smooth it out, but it'll all be covered in paint or copper anyway. That is if the Belgian post decides to go back to work, waiting for a package still....

 

 

[wvdhee]

What yellow is yellow?

 

As promised, I'd post when I'd deviate from the instructions and there we are! Small change, I admit, I didn't paint the wales black yet because I will paint in yellow ochre first. (I am actually having the Indy instructions next to me as a guide now, thanks Chris for providing them all!)

 

But what yellow to use? As mentioned in the Indy instruction manual and on the VM website it ought to be AK Ochre 11118. So I bought that and tried it on some scrap wood, but it doesn't look like the yellow on the Indy at all

 

 

I would have thought it to be closer to the yellow tape colour. Anyway, if anyone can shed a light (what light is light?) on it?

 

Thanks and happy building!

Walter.

 

Edited Wednesday at 08:55 AM by wvdhee

[Thukydides]

Ultimately the paint colour is really up to you, what do you think captures the look you are going for. If you want to make it look more correct to scale you need to use lighter colours than would have been historically used as at scale everything looks lighter. So a dark grey instead of a black and a paler yellow.

 

Part of your problem with the paint is the colour and part will be the dark undertone of the wood. I would suggest building up in thin layers. Start with yellow ocre as you have done. Then move to a medium yellow such as VMC medium yellow. Finally highlight with a light yellow such as VMC light yellow. You can look around to find colours you like better if you want. The key here is to keep the layers very thin. You can build them up until you get the colour you want. Yellow is a very transparent colour and so much of the previous layers can be seen through.

 

If you are trying to colour match the painting you may need to experiment with adding in a cream colour to get the right consistency such as VMC ivory.

 

The key is lots of thin layers. To check your paint is thin enough you can paint a little on the side of your palm. You should be able to still see the palm lines through the paint.

[wvdhee]

2 hours ago, Thukydides said:

Ultimately the paint colour is really up to you, what do you think captures the look you are going for. If you want to make it look more correct to scale you need to use lighter colours than would have been historically used as at scale everything looks lighter. So a dark grey instead of a black and a paler yellow.

 

Part of your problem with the paint is the colour and part will be the dark undertone of the wood. I would suggest building up in thin layers. Start with yellow ocre as you have done. Then move to a medium yellow such as VMC medium yellow. Finally highlight with a light yellow such as VMC light yellow. You can look around to find colours you like better if you want. The key here is to keep the layers very thin. You can build them up until you get the colour you want. Yellow is a very transparent colour and so much of the previous layers can be seen through.

 

If you are trying to colour match the painting you may need to experiment with adding in a cream colour to get the right consistency such as VMC ivory.

 

The key is lots of thin layers. To check your paint is thin enough you can paint a little on the side of your palm. You should be able to still see the palm lines through the paint.

 

Thanks, I will try lighter layers. I am not so sure about highlights though, I know you like them 😉 

I should have known about layers actually, I do some oil painting on canvas as well sometimes, but never tried with acrylics.

But I need to know some kind of colour code to print the name as waterslide decal... to be continued..

Edited Wednesday at 03:30 PM by wvdhee

[Thukydides]

3 hours ago, wvdhee said:

But I need to know some kind of colour code to print the name as waterslide decal... to be continued..

As long as you get reasonably close you can then paint over the decal to get the exact right shade. You don't need to get right up to the edge as the colour will mostly read as your painted colour.