Billy 1938 by Keith Black - 1:120 Scale - Homemade Sternwheeler

[Keith Black]

 Regarding Billy's main deck space, there's maybe a foot here on the port side and I assume it's the same on the starboard side. Also, Billy has about a foot of freeboard.

 

 All the springboards land on the barge as there isn't any deck space on Billy. That crazy door must have been strictly for ventilation. The stern line had to run from the boiler deck.  If one came aboard via the barge, was there a door at the bow? 

 

 There isn't a skiff in the photo, I have no clue how Engel planned on performing any repairs if required to outside walls of the main deck structure or the wheels? 

 

Edited Wednesday at 10:10 PM by Keith Black

[Javelin]

Not entirely sure on those springboards, I actually believe these beams were holding her off the shore. I mean ropes are making sure you don't go off a quay, but what is keeping her away from shore when there is no quay? She'd run aground if the wind came from the sea side... 

 

I believe that door on Billy might have been used when she was alongside the quay or sailing without the barge. Having the door open and have a gangway/plank straight into the door opening. 

 

Luckily you mention it's a sternwheeler as I keep thinking those wheels are at the bow... I believe it's due to the funnels being forward of the wheel house. 

 

Looking at that last picture, it looks like the real exhaust is sticking out between the wheels (lighter vertical object), with the planks around it blackened by soot (blurry darker area), so your assumption that the engine could be between the wheels is probably right. Or am I seeing things here? 

[Keith Black]

15 hours ago, Javelin said:

Not entirely sure on those springboards, I actually believe these beams were holding her off the shore. I mean ropes are making sure you don't go off a quay, but what is keeping her away from shore when there is no quay? She'd run aground if the wind came from the sea side... 

 

I believe that door on Billy might have been used when she was alongside the quay or sailing without the barge. Having the door open and have a gangway/plank straight into the door opening. 

 

Luckily you mention it's a sternwheeler as I keep thinking those wheels are at the bow... I believe it's due to the funnels being forward of the wheel house. 

 

Looking at that last picture, it looks like the real exhaust is sticking out between the wheels (lighter vertical object), with the planks around it blackened by soot (blurry darker area), so your assumption that the engine could be between the wheels is probably right. Or am I seeing things here? 

 

 Roel, the stacks are not boiler stacks as there is no boiler though the port side stack might have been functional for a parlor stove?

 

 Being this is in the Mississippi, I think the barge and Billy were aground in the shallows. 

 

 As far as the door goes, maybe? I'm still trying to get inside Engel's head. 

 

 1. Whatever that is, it's too small to be an exhaust. It almost looks like water running into the opening that's above the engine. 

 

 2. I'm very confident that is the exhaust.

 

 3. I think that was the oil drain pipe?

 

 4. That opening, was it roughed out with a sledgehammer and then artfully trimmed with a blowtorch?   It's strange but then strange was Billy's middle name. 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 12:26 PM by Keith Black

[Keith Black]

 I've started prepping Billy's windows. In the past I've built the walls and then worried about getting the windows placed. That approach hasn't always worked out for the best. This time I'm getting the windows picked and prepped and will let the windows determine how the walls go together. I'm also using plywood sheeting to attach the boarding to instead of stick building.

 

 Billy is going to be the Matchbox of sternwheelers, Billy's deck is 1.8 x 4.0 inches. This will be the smallest vessel I've built thus far. 

[Javelin]

1) I agree, might be water running down, but not entirely sure where from/to

 

2) I believe that is actually one of the paddles of the wheel coming up, but dark due to the lighting/ shadow

 

3) hadn't noticed that detail.... seems a bit exposed for an oil pipe, but then in those days....

 

4) 🤣

[tmj]

Could #1 possibly be hot engine 'cooling-water' being discharged back into the river? 🤔

[BANYAN]

A quirky but interesting vessel indeed Keith; should make into a very interesting model. If it is an opening, it could be simply be a vent (covered with some form of grill/netting) for a direct drive engine mounted between the paddles within that box extension? 

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Keith Black]

2 hours ago, tmj said:

Could #1 possibly be hot engine 'cooling-water' being discharged back into the river? 🤔

 Tom, absolutely! 

 

 The water pump draws directly from the river and the water goes directly back into the river once it's made its way through the engines internals. The opening had me stumped but thinking about it I now believe it was an unintentional opening caused by fire from the engine getting hot and being close to the wood. Engel may have originally had the hot water exiting the engine running over the wood covering the engine to try and keep it from catching fire but failed. Or this was his answer to the fire and he hadn't had a chance to make the wood repair.  

 

 Right or wrong I like your idea and I'm going to model the stern without the opening (solid wood cover) with water wetting the boards by running over them.  

 

1 hour ago, BANYAN said:

A quirky but interesting vessel indeed Keith; should make into a very interesting model. If it is an opening, it could be simply be a vent (covered with some form of grill/netting) for a direct drive engine mounted between the paddles within that box extension? 

 Thank you for the comment, Pat. See my response to Tom regarding the opening in the above. The engine was definitely mounted between the wheels, thus the separated paddle wheels.

[tmj]

3 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

Engel may have originally had the hot water exiting the engine running over the wood covering the engine to try and keep it from catching fire but failed.

"Whew!" I'm glad that this is plausible because my next thought had something to do with an extended stay at 'Zelda's Sand Bar', on fifty cent draft beer night... and you wouldn't want to model 'that'! LOL

[Keith Black]

5 hours ago, Javelin said:

1) I agree, might be water running down, but not entirely sure where from/to

 

2) I believe that is actually one of the paddles of the wheel coming up, but dark due to the lighting/ shadow

 

3) hadn't noticed that detail.... seems a bit exposed for an oil pipe, but then in those days....

 

4) 🤣

 Roel, see my response to Tom in the post above regarding #1. Regarding #2, it's the exhaust, I've enlarged this image on our iMac 27 till it pixilates and it's pretty clear it's the exhaust. #3, everything went into the Mississippi back in those days. 

[Keith Black]

1 minute ago, tmj said:

"Whew!" I'm glad that this is plausible because my next thought had something to do with an extended stay at 'Zelda's Sand Bar', on fifty cent draft beer night... and you wouldn't want to model 'that'! LOL

  I don't know where the head was located on this rig but it wasn't there because of the engine but it was the logical location.  

[Jim Lad]

Might not have had a head. He might simply have opened a door on the side furthest from the bank!

 

John

[Keith Black]

On 11/6/2025 at 11:13 PM, Jim Lad said:

Might not have had a head. He might simply have opened a door on the side furthest from the bank!

 Very true, John.

 

 

 Is this

 

 

 this? 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/116736725751?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28&google_free_listing_action=view_item&srsltid=AfmBOooIVux8k-EnjPM0eFtPs18EGyFypnls3o79Ecl7KYJ-Rf4smDrAdYk

[Jim Lad]

Wouldn't have thought 'Billy' would have anything so sophisticated, Keith. An air vent, perhaps?

 

John

[Keith Black]

1 hour ago, Jim Lad said:

Wouldn't have thought 'Billy' would have anything so sophisticated, Keith. An air vent, perhaps?

 John, a stinkin' air vent would have been pretty sophisticated considering you've got ole Engel weeing out the door.  If Engle needed fresh air he could have opened the PH door.

 

 Billy had to make noise for fair warning. There wasn't a steam whistle and I don't see a horn so I thought maybe that thingie on top of the PH might have been an old fire alarm bell. It's easy enough to replicate the shape whatever it is. 

 

 

 Speaking of the pilothouse, I've started with the PH and have the bow wall done and currently working on the two sides. I like doing the pilothouse first as it's the smallest structure and when completed it helps to insure the dimensions of the main deck structure are semi correct. It also helps get me ole fingers in tune.  

[Knocklouder]

"Moon River" starboard side lol, sorry  Keith,  must have crowsfeet lines  fever lol.

Just tagging along  

Bob  M.

PS  better if you sing it lol

Edited Saturday at 09:54 PM by Knocklouder

[tmj]

I have a question concerning scale and actual dimensions of ol' Billy. Was lumber for boats like this not typically milled to certain standards of the times, much like lumber is milled today? I'm asking this because of the different dimensions of lumber planks being used as 'siding' on the exterior of the 'above-deck' buildings. Could the width of those exterior planks/boards hold a clue as to the actual scale dimensions of the boat... or were things like lumber made with non-standard milling practices back when/where Billy was built? In guessing, I'd say the wide horizontal planks were around six inches wide and the vertical planks were about three inches wide. I came up with this by looking at the height of the windows where the wide horizontal planks are located. I might be way off base, dunno. I'm just looking for any known dimensions to accurately scale the photo by. I'm thinking that the dimensional lumber might hold a clue if known dimensions of that lumber can be revealed. 😕 

Edited Saturday at 10:26 PM by tmj

[Keith Black]

2 hours ago, Knocklouder said:

"Moon River" starboard side lol, sorry  Keith,  must have crowsfeet lines  fever lol.

Just tagging along  

Bob  M.

PS  better if you sing it lol

 That made me laugh, Bob. 

 

1 hour ago, tmj said:

I have a question concerning scale and actual dimensions of ol' Billy. Was lumber for boats like this not typically milled to certain standards of the times, much like lumber is milled today? I'm asking this because of the different dimensions of lumber planks being used as 'siding' on the exterior of the 'above-deck' buildings. Could the width of those exterior planks/boards hold a clue as to the actual scale dimensions of the boat... or were things like lumber made with non-standard milling practices back when/where Billy was built? In guessing, I'd say the wide horizontal planks were around six inches wide and the vertical planks were about three inches wide. I came up with this by looking at the height of the windows where the wide horizontal planks are located. I might be way off base, dunno. I'm just looking for any known dimensions to accurately scale the photo by. I'm thinking that the dimensional lumber might hold a clue if known dimensions of that lumber can be revealed. 😕 

 Tom, I tried going by the siding widths but that didn't work out so I went with a standard wall height of 8 feet and based my computations of that. I'll be close enough for ole Billy. 

[Cathead]

On 11/2/2025 at 12:26 PM, Keith Black said:

The car ferry is just one of my many photos of ugly sternwheelers that was the closest one to grab and attach in answering John. It's not one I envision building but yes, what is going on with the wheels? It's gas powered but there are some extra large pieces at the stern of the wheels I'm unfamiliar with.   

Late to this side theme because I've been away, but that looks like the Millersburg PA ferry that ran (and still operates) across the Susquehanna. I rode it many times growing up and it's still a going concern: https://www.visitcumberlandvalley.com/listing/the-millersburg-ferry/1818/

 

My memory is that it's a gas engine with some kind of chain drive to the wheels. It's a fascinating ride, the river is extremely wide there but also very shallow, most of the time you could walk across it without getting your head wet. Most of the crossing you can see the bottom of the river just a few feet below the ferry deck. It's a cobbled-together contraption out of a whimsical nightmare, and there are actually two different ferries, both similar but each their own.

[Keith Black]

20 hours ago, Cathead said:

Late to this side theme because I've been away, but that looks like the Millersburg PA ferry that ran (and still operates) across the Susquehanna. I rode it many times growing up and it's still a going concern: https://www.visitcumberlandvalley.com/listing/the-millersburg-ferry/1818/

 

My memory is that it's a gas engine with some kind of chain drive to the wheels. It's a fascinating ride, the river is extremely wide there but also very shallow, most of the time you could walk across it without getting your head wet. Most of the crossing you can see the bottom of the river just a few feet below the ferry deck. It's a cobbled-together contraption out of a whimsical nightmare, and there are actually two different ferries, both similar but each their own.

 Eric, that is so cool that you rode the ferry and I can't thank you enough for posting your experience and the link. I thoroughly enjoyed going through the Millersburg Ferry site. I've picked up so many sternwheeler images, it's nice to be able to put a name to a face and the fact that you were on it makes it that much more incredible! 

 

 I've attached your post in the Susquehanna's Hard Coal Navy build log because of the Susquehanna connection. 

 

  Thank you again.