Landlubber Mike's technique for furled sails

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi Randy,

 

I haven't thought about sails since I finished my Badger.  I'm probably going to add a mix of full and furled sails on my current Pegasus and Lyme builds though.  I would say try to find the thinnest high quality cloth you can for better scale, workability, etc.  I'd also consider making the sails a tad bulkier, but I've heard conflicting views.  Some like zu Mondfeld say that furled sail should be about the size of the yard. Others say the furled sail should be bigger.  Artist's choice would be my response

 

As for lines, I didn't include bowlines or reef points.  I'm fairly certain that I added all the blocks - with the caveat that given that the Badger was a brig and a therefore a smaller vessel, I often went with simpler tackles using single blocks, as opposed to tackle arrangements with double blocks.  

 

One more thing to consider is that the Golden Hind was from the 16th century.  I'm not sure how much, if at all, rigging differed from rigging used in later periods.  Beautiful build by the way - looks gorgeous and I bet would look nice in sails, furled or otherwise.

 

Hope that helps.  Good luck with your build!

[rschissler]

Thanks Mike,

 

I have the zu Mondfeld book, and I don't know what I would do without it.  It's pretty good at showing the differences from the centuries.

 

I bought some Amati sail cloth, which seems pretty thin, but who knows for sure.  Since I have plenty of the material, I think I will try out a couple sample sails first, starting with a half size sail, and then try your radical cut sail design, and see how they furl.

 

Since you said you included all the blocks, what did you do with the clew lines and blocks for it?  I really couldn't see what you did, once you attached the yard to the mast.

 

Randy

[Landlubber Mike]

If you're furling the sails, it's not as imperative to use very thin sail cloth.  If your cloth is thicker, you just have to use less material.  That's the beauty of adding furled sails.

 

Hopefully I'm not mixing up my lines and blocks, but looking at my Badger, for some sails, I added clew blocks (or a tackle of blocks) to the end of the dog eared part of the furled sail, and others, the line was started at the clews - essentially, I think it depends on the sail.  Here was an "a-ha" moment for me about clew blocks in trying to translate the kit's plans which didn't like most kits, didn't call for sails but had clew blocks just kinda hanging out there on their own:

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/604-brig-badger-by-landlubber-mike-caldercraft-164/?p=116375

[KenW]

Having put furled sails on my Fair American model, I thought I'd offer my two cents.

I used the Amati sail cloth after putting it through the washing & drying cycle 2 or 3 times.  I also cut the sails so that while the were the proper width, they were about 50% shorter.  I eliminated the reef lines and bow lines.  I used Peterseen's and Lees' books and learned a lot about the different lines and the location/position of the blocks to rig them.  It was a great learning experience.

You can refer to my build log for more details.

Cheers.

[rschissler]

Your Fair American is amazing, Ken!

[druxey]

There's a booklet on realistic looking sailmaking now available from SeWatchBooks, or as a chapter in the new edition of Swan IV.

[Landlubber Mike]

There's a booklet on realistic looking sailmaking now available from SeWatchBooks, or as a chapter in the new edition of Swan IV.

 

Wow, thanks for the info!  I used Swan IV to help me with the sail sizes, rigging, etc. for my Badger, but the sail construction update would have been nice to have as well.  Since I'm going to add full sails to my Pegasus, this supplement seems to be a great resource.

[Modeler12]

I also like to add some cents here. Thanks to you, Mike, I decided to add the furled sails to the top spars (after having full sails and rigging on the topsails). That added a lot more interest.

Here is one picture of the process you described. It worked very well. 

I like the idea of having the sheet still be visible and I had that going to the spar below. I did not add the other lines and blocks that are part of the whole rigging picture.

 

Edited June 4, 2015 by Modeler12

[Landlubber Mike]

Just wanted to add to this thread a link to JerseyCity Frankie's Victory.  He uses a mixture of full and furled sails, and his technique gave incredible results.  I plan on adding similar sails to my Pegasus and Lyme builds

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9359-hmsvictory-by-jerseycity-frankie-–-heller-–-plastic-1100-–mostly-rigging-and-sails/

[rwiederrich]

Not sure if cloth enthusiasts would like this but I use paper sails.  First by crumpling the death out of a sheet of simple copy paper...then I crumple it again...I (If I wish), then draw in with pencil the seam lines and  paint in any discolorations I want.  I then cut a shorted sail(Similar to what has already been demonstrated).  Then  I edge with thread and furl on yard.  I add additional staining if desired at this time.  The paper looks amazingly in scale, crinkled and stained liker a real sail.  Not an overly white toy sail.

[rwiederrich]

Actually I don't have any images of a furled sail(Just wasn't thinking about images then)...but I do have some of a drying sail on a scratch built Ferreira)AKA Cutty Sark.

Edited March 21, 2016 by rwiederrich

[Landlubber Mike]

Very nice.  Does the paper hold up very well after staining, etc.?  

[rwiederrich]

Here is another example of drying sails.

 

Rob

Edited March 21, 2016 by rwiederrich

[rwiederrich]

Mike...yes it does.  I use alcohol stains...it evaporates quickly and leaves a simple opaque stain...if I want more depth I use india ink added to the alcohol....great effects....and fast.

 

Paper nearly turns into a fine old looking cloth once wrinkled enough....mimicking old tired sails....quite natural looking...plus the scale pleats and wrinkles accepts alcohol staining well adding additional depth and dimension.

 

Rob

[Maximilian]

Mike,

Just came across your furled sails technique. Finally - a definitive method. Great job! Steve

[Modeler12]

Here is another example of drying sails.

 

Rob

Rob, I really like the picture you included. It clearly shows how all the rigging lines are being used on each sail.

It wasn't until I rigged my Conny with topsails that I learned about all those lines (sheets, clewlines, buntlines, etc.).

To use those lines to hoist the sails in order to dry them is neat. 

[rwiederrich]

Yes..Jay.  My method, IMV.. resembles tired sails...and not just tired sails, but sails that have seen lots of salt  air and water.  Canvas will wrinkle after it has been stretched and wetted then dried in an un-flat manner.

 

If you look closely at the image I posted...the sails are very wrinkly.  If the sails are to be entrapping wind..then they stretch again.  However, at rest and or in a furled or partly furled manner they aught to look the part.

 

As far as the sail rigging is concerned..you are correct..this image is a good reference for the modeler.  Someone should model their sails in like fashion...very realistic setting.

 

Rob

Edited August 6, 2016 by rwiederrich

[AlmostMarylandNative]

Thanks Mike!  I've made furniture as a hobby for more than 35 years and decided to try my hand at my first ship model after encouragement from a co-worker that places nationally with plastic model builds.  I bought the Mamoli La Goleta Schooner Americano in January 2018 and have been building it with no knowledge of sailing ships.  I have recently put in the masts and yards (named in the so-so directions), deciding to get them oriented correctly rather than doing so with the sails and whatnot pre-fabricated, and have struggled with some of the sail material to make furls.  Your technique should work nicely.  I had never heard of fray and fabric glues, and will stop at Jo Ann's Fabrics on the way home from work.  Fraying was a headache last night.  I also tried to furl a full size sail so now understand why it was so cumbersome.  I'll drop the size drastically.  I need to be careful because I'm entering a category that is kit only and cannot use any additional materials.  I've I'm semi-hooked evidenced by a preliminary search for my second kit.

[Landlubber Mike]

The anti-fraying stuff works wonders.  You end up getting a super clean cut as if you were cutting paper.  Hopefully that should help.

 

For the sail cloth material, I think if you're doing furled sails the weave and thickness matters much less.  The thickness really only comes into play when establishing the bulk of the furled sail, so you just have to adjust the size accordingly.  If I was to do it over, I'd probably add a tad more bulk, particularly on the jibs.  I've seen pictures where the sails were furled that tightly into such a compressed form, and then others where there was more bulk.  

 

I'd still just get the thinnest material you can find, wash it a few times to soften it, and then iron it out.  For my current builds, I'm going to try to use full sails.  That will be a little trickier as the weave, thickness, etc. becomes more important.

 

Good luck!

[Bill97]

Not sure if any of you still visit this blog since it is several years old, but if so I have a question?  I am building the Heller HMS Victory. I plan to furl all my sails and am reading different post on MSW about how to best make my furled sails. One thing I notice consistently is that most of the examples I find are done with the yard not on the mast yet. I have already attached all the yards and completed the initial attachment rigging of each. How difficult do you think this process would be with the yard already in place. I can already see that attachment of the completed sail will involve threading around already in place lines like the foot ropes, etc. 

[Keith Black]

 Bill, i'd say almost impossible without damaging lines. Save the furled sails for the next model. 

[Bill97]

Thanks Keith. I really don’t want to put up a full ship of unfurled sails because I want to display the details of the build. I will need to either leave the sails off or come up with a doable plan for attachment of what represents furled sails. 

[Keith Black]

 Bill, just swung by your Victory build log and looked at her yards, leave the sails off. Don't spoil the beautiful rigging job you've done thus far. 

[Bill97]

Thanks Keith. So nice of you to say. Glad you were able to find it. I have started to lean in that direction. 

[jdbondy]

I also agree that putting on sails when the yards are already attached would be extremely difficult. On my most recent completed build, the headsails were attached to the already installed bowsprit but only standing rigging had already been installed and nothing else. The rest of the sails were attached to their various spars prior to installation.

[rwiederrich]

Its best to furl your sails on the yard prior to installing on the mast.  I treat each yard like its own small project...finish it and move on to the next small project...till they are all done and ready to move to the next project.....adding them to the mast.  Yards are present on bow.

 

Follow my build log and see the yards dressed before mounting.

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by rwiederrich

[AON]

cannot view your jpeg image

[rwiederrich]

9 minutes ago, AON said:

cannot view your jpeg image

Fixed it...thanks.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

In this instance I mounted the furled sails to their yards off model....then rigged them to the mast...but the set sails were bent to the yards after the yards were mounted.  It was easier to bend the billowing sails after the yard was mounted....then the furled sails.  Which took much more fiddling and adjusting...which would have been quite tough on the model..

 

Rob

[Admiral Beez]

Thank you for sharing this.  I shall give it a go.