flying_dutchman2 Posted November 13, 2013 #1 Posted November 13, 2013 Hi there; This is my first scratch built. I’ve thought long and hard about it and the last kit (HMS Bounty – Constructo) I built, I changed numerous items as they were not accurate to that year it was built. So if I can do that, I can build a boat where I am in complete control. I decided on the Statenjacht “Utrecht”, because I love the lines from (plat bodems) flat bottom boats. I bought the book on the Utrecht from Seawatch books a while back because I am interested on how they built the replica. In the late 80’s I had a friend who worked as a volunteer carpenter on the Batavia replica in Lelystad, The Netherlands and I was with the amount of wood that went into building that boat. This year I purchased another book on the Utrecht authored by Gilbert McArdle, also from Seawatch books. This gave me insights on how to build the boat. I will not build it the way he did it. I will not do a “no deck boat” where you can see the interior. My plan is add a deck with cannons and all the deck items, sails and all the rigging. I am getting ahead of myself as I still have to finish "The Royal Yacht Mary". I started by copying all the frames and taping them with clear packing tape on the basswood. The reason of the packing tape is that this tape will lubricate the saw blade at all times and the use of basswood is that this wood is cheap and once the deck is on you will never see it. avsjerome2003, popeye the sailor, aykutansin and 8 others 11 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
flying_dutchman2 Posted November 13, 2013 Author #2 Posted November 13, 2013 All frames and templates copied and cut out ready to be taped to wood. Elijah, YankeeD, avsjerome2003 and 2 others 5 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
flying_dutchman2 Posted November 13, 2013 Author #3 Posted November 13, 2013 This boat will be built from ready pre-cut wood as I do not have the equipment to create a plank from a large piece of wood. I have some very knowledgeable people in my Nautical club and they have given me numerous suggestion what wood I can use for what part of the boat. I am finishing up taping the frames to the wood. So I do have a question: If you build a POF, why cut the frames up into futtocks (sp) and then plank both the outside and the inside of the boat and add a deck? Is it a sawing exercise? mij, cog, avsjerome2003 and 6 others 9 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
Mike 41 Posted November 13, 2013 #4 Posted November 13, 2013 You are off to a good start on the Utrecht. On a lot of POF models sections of the internal and external planking are left off to show the internal framing. This will be an interesting build to follow. Mike flying_dutchman2 and popeye the sailor 2 Quote Previous Builds: USS Pennsylvania - (1837) Scale: 1:64 Cross Section Continental Galley Washington 1776
mtaylor Posted November 13, 2013 #5 Posted November 13, 2013 So I do have a question: If you build a POF, why cut the frames up into futtocks (sp) and then plank both the outside and the inside of the boat and add a deck? Is it a sawing exercise? We actually cut out the futtocks and glue them together to make the frames. There are two reasons: 1) It does save on wood. 2) It makes the frames stronger. popeye the sailor and flying_dutchman2 2 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
flying_dutchman2 Posted November 15, 2013 Author #6 Posted November 15, 2013 We actually cut out the futtocks and glue them together to make the frames. There are two reasons: 1) It does save on wood. 2) It makes the frames stronger. How does it save on wood? On the Utrecht it is a frame cut in pieces and then glued together. I understand if it is stronger 'if' the frame is of 2 layers, so several futtocks like the cross section of the Syren (as seen on your build). I am planning to saw the frames as McArdle suggests. So not exact on the line. So rough cut. Then when all the frames a glued together I will sand it all in shape. Nothing is exact, just look at pictures when they build an actual replica. Marc granta and popeye the sailor 2 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
amateur Posted November 15, 2013 #7 Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) This is going to be very interesting. It is also stronger as the wood grain is running in the right direction. Utrecht has frames that are almost square, so sawing them in one piece will seriously lower their strenght, as at least one parft of the frame is cross-grained. Are you also adding the frame pieces that are in the 'real ship' to attacht the futtocks to the floor-parts of the frame? More pics of the build on http://veilinghaven.statenjacht.nl/het_schip/foto.htm (don't change the language to english, or you will loose all the interesting pictures ) And just to show you my pics of the actual replica: https://picasaweb.google.com/101597346346552139735/UtrechtsStatenjacht?authuser=0&feat=directlink Jan Edited November 15, 2013 by amateur popeye the sailor, harvey1847, mtaylor and 3 others 6 Quote
mtaylor Posted November 15, 2013 #8 Posted November 15, 2013 Marc, I suppose one could make the frames out of one plank, though plywood would be stronger and would work if the inside and outside are fully planked. I'm considering doing that way on my next build as my builds have and probably will be fully planked. popeye the sailor and flying_dutchman2 2 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
dgbot Posted November 15, 2013 #9 Posted November 15, 2013 If you were to make the frames out of one sheet. the frame will break along the grain. And you will be wasting a lot of wood. By building with futtocks you will maximize usage and insure the grain is all in one direction. Making the fraames much stronger and less prone to breakage. David B popeye the sailor, flying_dutchman2 and mtaylor 3 Quote Work in progress USS Maine in cardstock.http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7446-uss-maine-by-dgbot-hmv-card/#entry220003 Completed Blockade runner Teazer http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/6063-blockade-runner-teazer-by-dgbot-card-stock/#entry175967 Completed The Monitor Lehigh http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/6920-the-monitor-lehigh-by-dgbot-card-model/#entry203680 Completed Kingston Class MCVD http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/forum/10-kit-build-logs-in-progress/
harvey1847 Posted November 15, 2013 #10 Posted November 15, 2013 Welcome aboard Marc! I hope you understand me. Are just thougths. If you are going to make a POF model you are going to have to make lots of futtocks and put´em together. If you are going to plank both, the interior and exterior you could make the frames using plywood (laminated) as Mark is suggesting. By gluing some chocks of pine wood at the ends and between of the frames the strength you achieve is enormous. If you are going to go for the POF option, what I recomend you, cut the patterns and take your time to glue them in "order" on the wood sheet you are using. You´ll save lots of wood. Best wishes! Daniel. flying_dutchman2 and popeye the sailor 2 Quote In the shipyard: HMS Triton 1773. POF. 1:48. Daniel On the computer: R.A. Principe de La Paz. POF. 1:48. Daniel
flying_dutchman2 Posted November 15, 2013 Author #11 Posted November 15, 2013 To amateur, mtaylor, dgbot, and harvey1847, thank you. Thank you for the information. I am cutting the frames into pieces and yes, I am adding the chocks in between the frames. Marc popeye the sailor 1 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
flying_dutchman2 Posted November 15, 2013 Author #12 Posted November 15, 2013 More pics of the build on http://veilinghaven.statenjacht.nl/het_schip/foto.htm (don't change the language to english, or you will loose all the interesting pictures ) And just to show you my pics of the actual replica: https://picasaweb.google.com/101597346346552139735/UtrechtsStatenjacht?authuser=0&feat=directlink Jan I don't have to change to English as I am fluent in Dutch. Your pics from the replica........ did you work on this boat? Marc popeye the sailor and bwpeters 2 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
amateur Posted November 16, 2013 #13 Posted November 16, 2013 No I used to work in Utrecht, and from work to home I just passed this ship every day (at least, in the winter months). ANd last year a member on MSW was working on a paper version of the ship, and asked for a couple of pics, mainly of the details of the ship (especially because the scrollwork as build differs from the scrollwork as drawn in the plans) So I took my canmera to my work, and made a couple pf shots. And as there was someone on deck, I asked for a small tour around the ship. Jan popeye the sailor, Model Mariner and flying_dutchman2 3 Quote
flying_dutchman2 Posted November 18, 2013 Author #14 Posted November 18, 2013 In the 70's I attended the Rijks Middlebare Tuinbouw School in Utrecht. Not that this has anything to do with the boat. Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
amateur Posted November 18, 2013 #15 Posted November 18, 2013 But it explains your fluency in Dutch (btw School long gone) Jan flying_dutchman2 1 Quote
flying_dutchman2 Posted November 24, 2013 Author #16 Posted November 24, 2013 But it explains your fluency in Dutch (btw School long gone) Jan Wonder if they merged with others. I wanted to go to Boskoop but the wait time to get in was more than 2 years. Only the best of the best go there. That is why all the well known commercial plants are bred there. Sorry, for going off topic. Marc Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
amateur Posted November 24, 2013 #17 Posted November 24, 2013 Boskoop has also long gone. It's Velp that remained..... Jan flying_dutchman2 and robin b 2 Quote
bwpeters Posted January 6, 2014 #18 Posted January 6, 2014 Hi flying dutchman, Nice to see you like the old Dutch ships al lot..!Woow, you are building the Utrechts Statenjacht! The replica of this is has a berth in front of my house!.. If you need more information or specific pictures of parts, just let me know. Its a 2 minute walk to make the pictures.In the summertime she is sailing around in our area with tourists and partys. popeye the sailor and flying_dutchman2 2 Quote
amateur Posted January 6, 2014 #19 Posted January 6, 2014 Hi flying dutchman, Its a 2 minute walk to make the pictures. In the summertime she is sailing around in our area with tourists and partys. I thought she was still in Utrecht at the moment? Jan flying_dutchman2 and popeye the sailor 2 Quote
bwpeters Posted January 9, 2014 #20 Posted January 9, 2014 @ Jan, Yep that is right... In the wintertime is she layed up in Utrecht, in the summerperiod (april-october) in Muiden. She is sailing around in the waters around island Pampus. popeye the sailor and flying_dutchman2 2 Quote
flying_dutchman2 Posted January 15, 2014 Author #21 Posted January 15, 2014 Hi flying dutchman, Nice to see you like the old Dutch ships al lot..! Woow, you are building the Utrechts Statenjacht! The replica of this is has a berth in front of my house!.. If you need more information or specific pictures of parts, just let me know. Its a 2 minute walk to make the pictures. In the summertime she is sailing around in our area with tourists and partys. BWPETERS; Always liked the Dutch ships, I am a Dutchman living in the US. I will let you know if I need more detailed pictures of the Utrecht besides what I can find on the Net. I like all round en flat bottom boats plus the many Staten, Prinsen en admiral jachten. The war jacht from Abel Tasman is impressive as well. In due time I know I would like to have more pictures of her carvings. I need more different angels. Also het boegbeeld (figurehead), the lion. The facial expression is unique. Marc Salty Sea Dog, popeye the sailor and bwpeters 3 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
amateur Posted January 15, 2014 #22 Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) as an illustration to the 'facial expression' I think I already posted the link to more of my pics of the ship: https://picasaweb.google.com/101597346346552139735/UtrechtsStatenjacht?authuser=0&feat=directlink Edited January 15, 2014 by amateur WackoWolf, flying_dutchman2, popeye the sailor and 4 others 7 Quote
flying_dutchman2 Posted April 6, 2014 Author #23 Posted April 6, 2014 As of today I started cutting out the frame pieces and there is a lot of them. I have the scroll saw outside due to the nice weather. Once cut, I will start putting the hull together according to McArdle's book. Yes, it scares me a bit. If I compare it to a kit, than a kit is so much easier. You follow the plan and you have yourself a ship. But with the help of my local club and the immense knowledge on this site, I feel confident I can do this. Most of all, I will have fun. Pictures will follow. Marc popeye the sailor and mtaylor 2 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
flying_dutchman2 Posted August 21, 2014 Author #24 Posted August 21, 2014 This was a warm day where I cut out all the frames in the backyard. All frames are roughly cut out so there is room for sanding them to the size they have to be. popeye the sailor, kees de mol, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
flying_dutchman2 Posted August 21, 2014 Author #25 Posted August 21, 2014 This is a clamp that I copied out of the McArdle book. The clamp has 2 - 1/4" threaded rods with nuts and the wood is old plywood. It will hold any size hull together. Depended on the length of the threaded rods. The cut out frames. The scrap wood that I will be using for the ‘in betweeners’ of the frames or I think they are called chocks. Pieces of wood that go in between the frames. dgbot, tarbrush, mtaylor and 3 others 6 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
flying_dutchman2 Posted August 21, 2014 Author #26 Posted August 21, 2014 Table full of Tupperware with frames in them. The real boat will be a POF but there are also frames for a simple POB hull I will be building. The table is a bit messy, with the Mary under plastic (she is waiting for her display case and the hull on the left is a R/C Soling 1 meter. This model I bought used from a member in my local club. The fish in front of the speaker is a small puzzle. I create simple nature puzzles for kids with the scroll saw. Chocks that are being glued to the frame. Mike Y, popeye the sailor, tarbrush and 1 other 4 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
flying_dutchman2 Posted August 21, 2014 Author #27 Posted August 21, 2014 All the frames and chokes in the long clamp. Nothing has been glued yet. These are the frames from the book from Ab Hoving. The original plans. This will be for my POB and it will be a only a hull. mtaylor, Salty Sea Dog, dgbot and 5 others 8 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
flying_dutchman2 Posted August 21, 2014 Author #28 Posted August 21, 2014 Several boo-boos have been made. Some of the frames are 1/4" where they have to be 3/16" and vice versa. There are more 1/4" frames than 3/16" so the boat is about a 1/2" longer than the original plan. I thought of re-doing these frames but it is all wood, so one can manipulate this very easily. I checked the plans from Hoving and Emke and it is not significant. The boat will just be a wee bit longer. Marc popeye the sailor 1 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
tlevine Posted August 21, 2014 #29 Posted August 21, 2014 Before you decide to leave the frames as is, please check the plans and make sure that this does not impact some other part of the hull, such as gun ports, scuppers, etc. Making new frames is much easier than getting everything else in line later. dgbot, flying_dutchman2, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Toni Chairman Nautical Research Guild Member Nautical Research and Model Society Member Midwest Model Shipwrights Current Builds: Utrecht-1742 Completed Builds: Longboat - 1:48 scale HMS Atalanta-1775 - 1:48 scale Half Hull Planking Project Capstan Project Swallow 1779 - 1:48 scale Echo Cross Section NRG Rigging Project Utrecht-1742 Gallery: Hannah - 1:36 scale.
flying_dutchman2 Posted August 22, 2014 Author #30 Posted August 22, 2014 robin b. - Thank you for your interest. You will not be disappointed. tlevine - Thank you for this important tip. I did not even think about this. I will take your advice and redo the incorrect frames. Thanks, Marc dgbot, Salty Sea Dog, popeye the sailor and 1 other 4 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
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