HMS Jason by Beef Wellington - Caldercraft - 1:64 - Artois-class frigate modified from HMS Diana 1794

[Sjors]

Mike,

 

A ship is always a she     

 

Sjors

[mobbsie]

Looking real good so far Jason, not far to go now.  

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

[Beef Wellington]

Cheers Joe, Mike, Sjors, Mobbsie and the 'likes'.

 

Planking is going slowly, but actually quite pleasantly.  On Snake, I used a combination of CA and PVA glue to secure planks, but wanted to just use PVA this time around.  The kit supplies 6mmx1.5mm linewood planks which are pretty easy to work with but you really have to find the right lie of the plank to avoid excessive edge bending, meaning quite a few stealers.

 

I have reached a bit of analysis paralysis at the stern so would appreciate any 'tips and tricks' anyone can share.  The round stern is presenting me some challenges trying to figure out the appropriate shape, although I've tried to use some filler to get a better idea of the shape and provide a good base for glue.  Main question:  does it look like I've shaped this enough yet?  I think I've got a good idea of the lay of the planks but the planking termination at the stern post and rearmost bulkhead is difficult to envisage - I've looked at multiple build logs for clues and photos all look great....'completed'.

 

In photos below you can also see the the boxwood section that I'll be using above the waterline (not glued yet) and also some balsa transom terminations to avoid having planks float in thin air.  I'm not comfortable fixing the transom shapers (parts 26 & 27) until I can get a better sense for positioning with a planked hull and the stern fascia. I can see why the stern of this ship causes so many challenges. (The uppermost plank looks very awkward in this picture for some reason...)

 

Lower photo shows a copy from the AOTS book enlarged to 1:64 scale that was used to get a sense for where the various bulkheads align with respect to the actual framing.  Mainly this was used to determine how the planking needs to terminate on the rearmost bulkhead, shape of the keel former in red pen and also shows section replaced with boxwood.

 

Edited December 9, 2014 by Beef Wellington

[cog]

Looking good Jason, you have your work cut out for you. You might drop a glance at Jack Aubrey's (http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7795-brick-de-24-by-jackaubrey-148-scale/) build the way he planked his initial layer

[Ray]

Hi Jason
                I have added some photos of my Diana`s stern from point you are up to now, then forward to where the stern is nearly completed, there are a lot more steps from where you are now to that point, but part you are most apprehensive over is covered up by the stern galleries and cabin.
I hope these photos help, I also found it difficult to get my head around this stern but I think it turned out OK.

First planking sanded and filled

second planking going on

all on and filled

completed and sanded

galleries and cabin going over planking

shows finished stern

[Beef Wellington]

Ray - thanks very much for the photos, very helpful, looks like you didn't use the triangular filler pieces at the stern and didn't cause you any issues.  Mine are glued solidly on so will need to proceed with these.  Hopefully I'll get some time tonight to look at this again.

 

Carl - thanks, I'll check it out.

[NMBROOK]

That is some exceptionally neat deck planking Jason!!!!!!!!!   I find it helpful to look at a Navy board model of the subject.The visible stern timbers help you visualise the shape better.However the dockyard model of Diana ( nice stern pic by Sjors in his thread on the Chatham historic Dockyard) is fully planked so not much help I am afraid.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[Beef Wellington]

Nigel - cheers buddy, nothing compared to yours but I'm happy.

 

Planking has proceeded at a snails pace, but after much deliberation I figured out the round stern, no-where near as neat as Ray's and keep reminding myself that this will all turn out fine with a little sandpaper and filler.  My focus was primarily on ensuring that the planking terminated properly at the transom and sternpost.  Rabbets were cut into the boxwood for first and placeholder for the 2nd planking.  Man oh man!! -  what an absolute pleasure working with boxwood is, so easy to cut and get nice clean edges.

 

The plank next to the stern post was positioned first to lie correctly, then work downwards to the previously planked section which results in a few odd shaped planks and stealers.  I can see how spiling would be a much more logical, though time consuming, approach.  You can see an error not yet corrected where I thought I needed a stealer when in fact a full plank would have worked best, it was already glued so will be easier just to add a sliver.  Also changed my plan for how the planks terminate so it looks a little odd right now, should be just fine once sanded to shape and hopefully will be a nice solid base for the second planking in this tricky area.  Clearly I'm a bit of a slob when it comes to planking

 

Edited December 16, 2014 by Beef Wellington

[cog]

Ah your sloppyness,

 

As long as it is only the first - invisible - layer, it doesn't matter that much. You will be mounting another beautiful layer of planks and probably copper.

[jim_smits]

Clearly a slob.... That planking just looks a total mess..... Horrendous.....

 

Not sure what you would class as good as that looks pretty good to me! Keep up the work and be sure to keep a log of all the issues you have so I can steal it later....!

[Beef Wellington]

Well heres a final post of the planking in process, will not bother to post anymore until first planking is complete as theres not likely much else to really share.  I'm deviating from the plans a little in the suggestion on planking, they indicate to start at the very top of the frames (I think), I've decided to lay a plank aligning with the main deck and then work up.  This is hopefully to ensure a consistent height of the gun ports to the deck, as the top of the bulkheads does not seem to rise slightly toward the stern.  The top edge of this plank was marked with a pen so hopefully will show up once all sanded, although it shouldn't be too hard to figure it out.

 

Anyway, here's wishing everyone the best of the season.  Merry Christmas everyone!

 

 

Continuing planking upwards, starting to take shape...

 

 

Cut out some sections in the balsa where the hawse holes will be, hopefully this will allow the holes to be open on the rear face rather going into balsa.  Not sure exactly how this will work but it can't really introduce any fresh problems.

 

 

Also wanted to call out a tool that I've quite taken to, although I think it did appear on the 'list of most useless tools' on MSW 1.0. I bought this when I started my 'Snake' and never really used it.  However, I've found that this can really help give a better curve on the planks, otherwise with simple soaking and even with bulkheads appropriately fared, the planks tend to flatten in between the bulkheads as they are so far apart on this kit.  Using this tool, which simply crimps the plank its possible to get a much better curve with a dry plank.  This is proving especially helpful to get a nicer curve at the bow (In some places I think I had been a bit zealous with shaping the balsa a removed a little too much and had some flatter surfaces than I would have liked.  

 

 

 

 

[Landlubber Mike]

Really great work Jason, coming along very nicely.

 

Can I ask you how you did your filler blocks?  I'm thinking about doing them on my Pegasus (and will definitely need them for my Lyme).  I've seen different approaches like marking out the outlines between the two bulkheads on thinner strips of wood, and then sandwiching them all together for the final product.  I'm not sure I want to spend the effort to do all that, but was hoping to maybe just got basswood blocks down to size, and then sand them down to shape - hard to tell if that's what you did or not, but that would be my preferred approach

[egkb]

Looking very Snazzy there Jason, that 'crimper' seems to be working a treat.

 

All The Best For the Christmas and New Year !!

 

Eamonn

[cog]

Looks promising. I keep my reservations for your tool, as I'm a sucker for steaming planks ...

 

Merry XMas and best whishes for next year

[aliluke]

Hi Jason

She's looking good.

 

I sometimes revert to the plank nipper - it does the hard angles but I've become a soak and bend planker for the most part. In a tight corner the nipper isn't a bad choice and the poor press it gets here is a little harsh. Nothing is as good as a handy tool to get you, gently, around a really tight bend!

 

Have a good one and I look forward to your progress in the new year.

[Beef Wellington]

Mike - I took the easy approach, I bought some balsa blocks in varying in a couple of thicknesses and sandwiched together to get fill the gap as much as possible, I didn't worry about it making in meet the adjacent bulkead.  I found them useful for really just visualizing the hull shape in tricky areas at bow and stern to all the bulkheads to be fared.

 

Carl - I hear you, I also use soaking and steaming, as I say, its just the areas that are highly convexly curved and where the bulkheads are quite far apart that this is useful for.  The supplied limewood is 1.5mm thick and I've found even with extensive soaking it can splinter.

 

Eamonn, Alistair and everyone else, Merry Christmas!

[Jimz66]

Looking great Jason. Keep it up. Can't wait to see this one take shape. 

 

I am in CT too. Winsted for now. But I will be moving within a year. 

Edited December 25, 2014 by Jimz66

[Beef Wellington]

Jimz66 - welcome!  I'm not too far from you, I'm in Simsbury.

 

Well, I promised no more updates until I was done, but just couldn't wait.  Nearly there, just a couple of planks to go on the starboard side, and a few more on the larboard.  Shaping the planks is really essential to get any sort of flat lie which, edge bending is just won't work on this hull.  You can see how I had initially misjudged the line of the planks at the bow, but was relatively easy to correct this one bulkhead back.  The sharp curve at the stern wasn't easy, but not as bad as I thought it was going to be.  You may also see a little protective case around the boxwood sternpost section!

 

Like most, I'll be glad when this step is done.  Once last planks are on it will be back over to Snake until the Spring weather allows some time outside so I can fill and sand.

 

 

 

[jim_smits]

Looking good Jason!

 

Was the bow section causing issues?

[Beef Wellington]

Cheers Brian, and thanks for stopping by.

 

Jim - not really issues.  I has set myself the (perhaps unrealistic) goal of trying to get the planks to lie as they would following planking principles and getting as tight a fit as possible.  I think the reality is that its really only possible  with spiling, even tapering the limewood planks its hard to get the planks to lie flush with the hull shape and avoid both clinkering and pointy plank ends (as per my first attempt on Snake).  My limewood pile is getting quite low so fingers crossed I have enough to finish (the downside of tapering the planks is you go through more material).

 

Spiling is something for the next build   The reality is that none of this matters as it will be covered up, but just spending time on this has been good experience.

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi Jason, looks great.  I like how you stopped the first planking at the bearding line near the stern.  I ran the planking to the stern post, but I have a feeling that I'll be sanding a lot of that off

 

I also ran into similar issues planking my Pegasus.  It was a little easier on my Badger where there were fewer curves, but I think spiling is the way to go where there are more complex curves in the hull (unless one is comfortable with pointed or up curved planks at the bow).  I'll probably try it out on my Pegasus - Frank and others have assured me that it is not as difficult as it seems, so I'm going to take their word for it - and if it is too difficult, I'll send them my hull to plank   If I mess it up, most will be covered with the coppering, so I might as well practice (I'm not coppering my Lyme, so it would be good to get some free practice in now).

Edited January 23, 2015 by Landlubber Mike

[Sjors]

Almost closed Jason.....    

Very, very nice !

It's also a long lady.

Are they all playing basketball ??????

 

Sjors

[drtrap]

Looking good, fine work Jason...

[Beef Wellington]

Time has flown by, maybe time to note down a few thoughts on my plan of attack.  Its been a lot of fun spending lots of time tinkering with various bits so far, but I do want to make some concrete progress.  None of the diagrams solve the aligment dilemmas, and I'm less than convinced that the placement/shape is correct on various supplied parts, and I really wanted to be comfortable that I wouldn't be setting myself for future frustration.  

 

My prediction of running out of lime strip did come to pass so I have some on order (some of the kit supplied 1.5mm lime strip was on the thin side (~1-1.25mm) so I didn't use it,  and I want make sure I've got plenty of thickness here to sand back)Here's what I've concluded, and the alignment I'll proceed with...at least until I find a new problem.

 

Stern fascia:  The top of this should align with the top of the keel former at the stern.  Looking at many contemporary models, the stern windows feel larger in proportion to the fascia itself, and the proportions overall shown on the box art art and instructions just don't look right.  The former itself appears over-sized to me and will require trimming at the bottom and the sides to maintain what I see as the correct proportions. This will mean that I will probably need to figure out my own solution for decorations in place of the supplied PE, but that should be fun.  The PE windows should definitely be useable as are the castings.  The two holes (assuming chaser ports) will also be enlarged.  This is all for down the road though.

 

Side galleries:  The stern fascia size/alignment needs to also consider the side galleries, which should align nicely with the lines of the stern fascia and also align with the line of the gunports.  The low-res NMM plans show the gallery windows appearing slightly above the line of the gunports, however, every contemporary model I've seen seems to show these lining up exactly with the line of the gun ports, as does the AOTS book and plans. I'll try to follow the latter, and use the NMM plan as justification if I need to sneak them up a little.  The supplied parts will need to be reshaped to get the correct proportion, this seems a common Caldercraft scenario.

 

Photos below show a little trick I found useful.  Knowing I'd be using the PE windows, I copied the sheet on my home printer and simulated final placement, also whittled up a balsa wood quarter gallery so I could visualize the alignment.  The grey-blue I'm using will likely not show correctly, but its a Tamiya colour and I quite like it - seems to sit well with boxwood I plan to use...

 

 

Keel former: Once the above alignment  is determined, the positioning of the upper and lower counter are shown to be too high.  No problem, will just require the various former peices (26 & 27) to be 'corrected'.  The other item that I'll address is not in the instructions.  The termination of the lower counter and the hull planking would be perpendicular to the keel if taken to the last frame, however, I believe this should also gradually curve forward as it curves down.  

 

I also laminated some maple strip at the base of the stem to better shape this allowing for the needed extra depth to the keel.  I've positioned a few strips to show how I plan to include the false keel.

 

 

Upper Counter: The kit supplies a poor representation of the shape of the upper counter and simply says the lower counter should be planked.  I'll plan to shape my own out of some spare 1mm maple sheet, this requires the stern fascia positioning to be known first.

 

Quarterdeck bulwark:  Positioning this also is a challenge like all premade templates.  These need to be aligned so that the bottom of the gun ports are a consistent distance from the upper deck (which of course is not yet permanently fitted).  I may leave these off for now as they will be very delicate once installed, but I will need to know the lie of the planks below so I can install these.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Beef Wellington

[Ray]

Hi Jason looks like you are trying to solve another of Diana`s alignment  issues, bare it mind it fits over the second planking, I have built a different version so lined up the top of the stern facia with the top of the bulwark in my open rail set up, you can adjust the side galleries above and below with the filler sections, and fill if needed as they are painted, again I did all this work after the second planking the hull, and after adding  the wale, and I also added a vertical plank to the edge of the keel and finished the second planking to this. I have added a photo of the rudder fitted as well this also shows how my one sits plus just how much its covered by the coppering, I think this build is no where as straight forward as it first looks and only a few of us have attempted to resolve the issues it throws up, my attempt may not be totally correct but at least I think it looks right.

keep up the good work she does keep the brain cells working.

best regards Ray

 

 

[Beef Wellington]

Thanks Ray I think your statement about this kit being more complex than it appears is spot on!  I wasn't planning on installing these until the second planking is done as you say, but do want to ensure I don't set myself up for an unpleasant surprise.  Maybe its because I don't have my planking on yet, but the side galleries and the stern windows extend above the upper deck which is what got me concerned in the first place with the alignment.  I have my plan now so just need to execute!

[Beef Wellington]

Bit of a diversion while I continue to wait for some more Limewood from CMB.

 

I had planned to replace the plywood false keel stem with boxwood, originally I was going to simply cut out the replacement shape.  However, I though this would be a good opportunity to do a little 'scratch' building to give me a flavour for it.  I followed the diagrams in the AOTS book, although simplified them slightly (using enlarged scans as pseudo plans while reconciling key dimensions back to the kit to ensure things stay in line).  Took quite a  few days to do (a full framed ship would clearly be out of the question for me!), its certainly not up to Chuck's standard but overall I was really happy with the result for a first attempt.  I lightly used a pencil to highlight the seams to a small degree without wanting to overdo this.  Unfortunately, I suspect I will be painting over 75% of this, but it was great experience.  

 

I rounded of and tapered the knee of the head using approximate guidance from the FFM book 1.  I think this should be tapered more, but I stopped where I did because it resulted in a nice snug fit for the figurehead I plan to use, any more would have resulted in gaps.  I rounded the leading edge, and will wait to cut the gammoning slot until I'm confident of the placement of the head rail features.  You can see the comparison below between the supplied Diana figurehead which is clearly made to straddle a 5mm knee and result in gaps.  I purchased the figure head from Syren when I bought the kit.

 

 

Everything in place (dry fitted for now). Took some adjustment to ensure I the bowsprit would sit correctly and clear the figurehead.

 

 

Also have addressed the lower counter at the stern.  I got quite aggressive and cut back the transition between the lower counter and the planking to ensure this drops and sweeps forward as it appears to in the AOTS book.  I'm only going to use 1 set of the lower counter shapers

 

 

Premade a lower counter sheet which I though might work better than simple planking.  Looks like some adjustment will be needed as the keel former extends into the hole for the rudder.  I've got my approach laid out for the upper counter and stern fascia which will probably deviate from what the kit suggests...but thats a story for a future post 

 

Edited March 1, 2015 by Beef Wellington

[Sjors]

Very nice Jason !

 

Witch figure head belongs to the Diana ???

I think the woman......

Wait a minute....you gonna call him/her the Jason     

Is that a prototype from your self ?????????

 

Sjors

[Timmo]

Nice work on that stem Jason. Nothing to apologise for there. The figurehead looks good. I'd wondered what you'd do there.

[mobbsie]

I take it the figure head of Jason is a self sculpture, nice pecks mate.

 

Why is the stern always gives the most problems, and that's on all ships in my experience.

 

You've conquered your problems nicely.

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie