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i am about to rig a pair of cannons in the cabin before I close it up, and want to know how much breeching rope to provide. That is, how far back do the breechings allow the cannon/truck to recoil backwards? How much space is typically left between the muzzle and the port opening to allow cleaning/re-loading?

 

Thanks!

Brian

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Hi Brian,

 

As a rule of thumb, the breeching would be around three times the length of the gun barrel.

 

Recoil distance was limited by the center line obstructions on the deck, so there was not a lot of space bewteen the muzzle and the port with the gun run in.

 

In more restricted places such as cabins a shorter barrel length gun was sometimes used, but partition panelling was usually struck down when working the guns.

 

With breechings on a model there should be obvious slack if the gun is run out, but the exact amount is probably best left to your eye given the particular set up on your model.

 

B.E.

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  • 3 months later...
  • 4 weeks later...

Is there a similar illustration for 12 pounder caronnades?  I am wondering how far inboard the upper slides go when loading or during recoil?  I already made the breech lines for my guns (MS Niagara- see the last page of my build log), but I think I made them a bit too short.

 

My thinking was when they are fully pulled back for loading, the edge of the upper slide is even with the lower carriage.  If the top slide overhangs the carriage, then the lines will need to be longer.  

 

I might have to redo all 18 of them if my assumption was incorrect (probably set me back a week or so)....  

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Ken- thanks.  Keep checking- once I get it "right" there'll be tons of pictures up.  I'm anxious to press ahead and get them rigged, but it just doesn't look quite right since they have this ugly-looking sigma shape to them (when looking from the side)...

 

Course, if I have to redo them, it shouldn't take that long (luckily I have tons of extra rope I made for the breech lines).  :)

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This is an old thread but it is exactly what I was looking for.  It seems that the breech line needs to allow the muzzle to come inboard of the bulwarks by about a foot.  The long handles of the cleaning and tamping tools can be led out through the gunport and then fed back down the barrel, but about a foot would be necessary to load the charge and ball.  This is also worth noting regarding the location of the inhaul deck ring as shown on the center gun.

 

While studying this diagram, another question came up as regards the outhaul tackle which was used to haul the carriage back into firing position.  Was that tackle left attached to the ring bolts on the carriage when it was fired?  I would think not!  I cannot believe that the outhaul line would lead fairly and cleanly through the blocks.  If a block on either side were to foul during recoil, either the gun would be jerked out of position, or the tackle would fail.  And even assuming the line were able to run cleanly, I pity the sailor whose leg or foot was snagged as the line ran out. 

 

I believe that the block at the carriage end was rigged with a hook which would be liffted out of the ringbolt after the gun was hauled out and the re-hooked after the gun was fired.  I guess that another possibility is that the outhaul tack was used to snub the recoil and that the breach line was only a backup.  The inhaul tackle would have to be used to bring the gun inboard for reloading.  I think I will go with the first choice and be sure that outhaul tackle will be rigged with hooks.

 

Jerry

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Jerry,

 

 Before the introduction of train tackle, the running (out) tackles were unhooked and used as train tackle when needed.  The use of the tackle as train tackle depended on whether the guns were on the lee or windward side.  The hooks facilitated this action.  When separate train tackle came into use, it would be used as necessary to hold the leeward guns in place during reloading so the running tackle was no longer needed for this purpose.  At this point, the running tackle hooks were often moused so they could not be easily unhooked.  This means they were maintained in place when the guns were fired, not unhooked.

 

An interesting note is that the breech was not in a straight line, but dropped down to a ring on the carriage that was lower than the ring on the bulwark. 

This added a lot of friction to slow the recoil. 

 

The above is from Volume II of Caruana's English Sea Ordnance.

   

Allan

Edited by allanyed
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Thanks for the response, Alan.  I have thought the having the breech cable pass through the ring on the carriage was to keep the breech end of the barrel down on the carriage.  I would think that the quoin, which was held in place by the weight and friction of the barrel, would be thrown willy nilly if the gun bucked off of the deck.  Keeping the gun carriage in contact would also help in snubbing the recoil as you say.

 

I have never seen a gun fired with full charge and with a real cannon ball.  All of the demonstrations that I have seen are lightly loaded, just to make a flash, boom, and smoke display.  The demonstrations show almost no recoil.  I have always wondered if a real shot in action caused the gun to recoil hard against the breech cable.

 

Jerry

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Here is a picture of a gun run in being loaded :-)

 

800_Victory_guncrew_1114.jpg

RE: ... to Victory and beyond!

 

... some thought about the run out and secured guns ...

Victory-131102_1451.jpg

RE: ... to Victory and beyond!

 

 

... and some discussion about a carronade sliding backwards:

Victory-carronades_9526.jpg

 

Victory-Carronade_9607.jpg

RE: Carronaden

 

XXXDAn

 

PS: Do not mind the preventer breeching lines on the 32 pounders as seen on todays Vic and described by Goodwin. So far the discussion did not reveal any robust prooves for it ...

 

PPS: Anybody having an idea?

Edited by dafi
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Jerry,

 

There's a video on Youtube of live fire at the Niagara museum where they are firing at mockup using full load.  There's also another one of , I think it's a Vasa cannon, live firing at a hull mockup.  

 

Ah.... Niagara museum video:  https://youtu.be/U6foV4lmL4A

and that Wasa... http://www.thelocal.se/20141022/iconic-vasa-ship-fires-biggest

 

There's more cannon fire here:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4503-live-fire-when-the-gunz-go-boooooom/

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