74 Gun Ship Complete Framing Supplemental Plans

[ChrisLBren]

 

Hi Group,

 

Just received this email from Ancre this AM = needless to say its on the top of my Xmas list - now just to make the decision if I want them in 1/72nd or 1/48th scale.  Its really cool that they are also adding documentation for a building the 1782 Centaur or the 1785 Superb - so you have a choice of a specific vessel  vs a generic example of this class.

 

http://ancre.fr/en/ouvrages-de-base-en/73-plans-de-la-charpente-du-v74-canons.html

 

Chris

 

[druxey]

More temptation for the Christmas season!

[mtaylor]

And it looks like the price goes up after the first of the year...  decisions, decisions....

[cookster]

Hi guys, a couple dumb questions if you don't mind.

 

First, this looks very interesting - like I need them but heck when did that matter?

 

This is for a French 74, correct?   I see a reference to books, what other documents besides these plans would I need to buy in order to build this model?

 

Thanks!

[mtaylor]

Wes,

 

Here's  a link to the books being talked about in the link Chris supplied:  http://ancre.fr/en/ouvrages-de-base-en/9-vaisseau-de-74-canons-1780-traite-pratique-d-art-naval-1780-en-quatre-volumes-base-de-la-collection.html   Interesting, it looks like all the volumes are back in print again.

[cookster]

Thanks Mark, I had an idea that was what was being referred too, just wanted the experts to confirm for me.

 

I've read several build logs of English 74s and 1st rates, but not any French 74s (that I remember).  I'll definitely seek them out now.  I'm really intrigued by this series, not sure why but I am!

 

I think Santa needs to seek these out for me...

 

Thanks again!

[uss frolick]

So let me get this straight ...

 

Somebody has carefully - and no doubt beautifully, knowing Ancre - lofted off the frames of the old, generic Boudriot French 74, and then grafted the known carvings of two specific, Joel Sane' designed ships on to the bow and stern. After years of examining NMM draughts of captured French ships, the one thing I know about 'standard' French ships, especially ones built to the prolific Sane' designs, is that, decorations aside, no two look even remotely alike!

Edited December 1, 2014 by uss frolick

[mtaylor]

Wes,

Stroll through the Scratch area.  There's an assortment of French ships being built or have been built.

 

Frolick,

You've noticed that also?    :D  

[Nenseth]

Just got the 1/72 scale plans and booklet in the mail today.

I must say I love the publications from Ancre. 

Hope I have time to build this after my La Belle.

[ChrisLBren]

I received mine last week - they're great !  I'm studying these intently right now along with book 1 of the 74 Gun ship.  And actually the author makes a very valid case for both of these alternate 74s to Boudriots generic vessel - i think the total difference being about 4 feet in length.  

 

I lay out his findings in more detail if there is interest,

Chris

[rtropp]

Chris

I would be interested in hearing more about the plans.

Are they in French or English? (I am not conversant in French)

Can a picture of one of the build frames be posted? (Not sure that is allowed.)

 

Thanks,

Richard

[ChrisLBren]

I own the supplemental plans and books 1 thru 3 of the 74 Gun ship - English versions.  They are available in several languages.  For an example on the plans go to this link.

 

http://ancre.fr/en/ouvrages-de-base-en/73-plans-de-la-charpente-du-v74-canons.html

[rtropp]

Thanks Chris,

The link was what I needed.

Richard

[borisbee]

Hello, I was considering purchasing these plans since I own books 1-3 and soon to purchase book 4 as well.  However I'm a little confused as to what I would choose.  I'v attached a screenshot of what I mean.  In the drop down box there are several options, one of them being English which is the cheapest option, and then two other options at the bottom that offer the plans in two different scales along with something else? 

 

Could anyone shed some light on this for me please? Oh and as a side note, if price were not an option would you recommend grabbing the 1/48 scale plans or 1/72?  I imagine having the larger scale would be better even if you were not interested in building such a big ship on such a large scale, but better to scale down plans than trying to upscale smaller plans if you were so inclined to build bigger?

[druxey]

Re-scaling plans always involves risk of distortion. If you plan on a 1:48 model, you are better off getting the larger plan set. Besides, there will be the additional cost of scanning and printing at the new size. What scale are you considering, anyway?

[trippwj]

Hello, I was considering purchasing these plans since I own books 1-3 and soon to purchase book 4 as well.  However I'm a little confused as to what I would choose.  I'v attached a screenshot of what I mean.  In the drop down box there are several options, one of them being English which is the cheapest option, and then two other options at the bottom that offer the plans in two different scales along with something else? 

 

Could anyone shed some light on this for me please? Oh and as a side note, if price were not an option would you recommend grabbing the 1/48 scale plans or 1/72?  I imagine having the larger scale would be better even if you were not interested in building such a big ship on such a large scale, but better to scale down plans than trying to upscale smaller plans if you were so inclined to build bigger?

I suspect that the additional items listed are the additional plans mentioned in this part of the description (very bottom of the description section)

 

The timbering plans are sold separately from the set of plans from the book and provided within another cardboard cover to the same format. These may be provided at the 1/48 scale upon request.

[ChrisLBren]

The different options exist if you already own the original plans at 1/72nd that you purchased with the volumes.  So thats the cheapest option - just getting the supplemental ones that show drafted frames.  Or you can buy the entire set enlarged to 1/48 scale.  Hope this helps.

Chris

[borisbee]

Ok thanks.  I never bought the original plans so I guess I'll just buy the full set.  I just ordered my missing 4th book from abebooks so I was wanting to get the plans to complete my set.  Still unsure what scale to get but I'll make a decision eventually I guess.  I'v never actually done a scratch build before and I'm not sure what I should get.  

 

It doesn't appear many people do these large ships in 1/48 so maybe 1/72 would be more fitting.  If I did calculation right 1/48 means a 170 foot ship such as these would come out to 42.5 inches long, nearly 4 feet, which seems absolutely massive.

[Chuck Seiler]

Which project do you start first? The model or the room addition used to store the model?

[RichardG]

I would love to build one of these at 1/48. I'll need to improve my skills (by a lot). Win the lottery to afford a new big shed, lots of tools, and a display case big enough. Then I'd have to be extra,extra nice to the admiral for about 20 years. Still I can dream.

[ChrisLBren]

If you're going to build 1/72nd go plank on bulkhead - full frame 1/48 or larger scale for best results (although I have heard you can go as small as 3/16). Personally I'm going to build full frame at 1/48 - as part of the deal for our new house - Ive got a big workshop !!!

[cookster]

Little late to the party, but I finally stopped putting this off and ordered the plans and Vol 1 of the books.  Seems I can't help myself....

 

Whether I'll ever build a French 74, or any 74, who knows?  Just reading these should be great fun...  And inspirational

 

I need to try my hands at true POF at least once before I kick the bucket one day, just gotta pick the right subject.  If I go with an American 74 there's only a few choices, and I'd have to draft my own plans (again...).   HMS has plenty of choices in 74's, but then there's plans to find .  This book series and plans seems to be complete and contain ALL the info needed to build a fine, detailed model of a '74, all in one place, even if it is a generic subject.  Surely with a little work and research it could be made to represent an actual ship.

[jbshan]

Which project do you start first? The model or the room addition used to store the model?

A two-car garage ought to be big enough to still be able to have something in build after you have this one on display.  You don't want to be cramped.  Do be careful going back and forth between plans sets.  The books (4 vol. set) are in French feet, as I understand it.

[rtropp]

Joel

I am not sure I understand the implications of French feet on the plans and on the building process.

 

Thanks

Richard.

[RichardG]

Joel

I am not sure I understand the implications of French feet on the plans and on the building process.

 

Thanks

Richard.

 

According to https://sites.google.com/site/shipwrightsfaq/smf-researchnotes/smf-RN-Cross-CulturalHistoricMeasurementUnits, "The French foot, pied, measured 32.48 cm", an English foot is only 30.48cm. 

 

If you're taking the measurements and scaling them say to 1/48, the relative sizes will be correct but the actual scale would be different (I'm too tired to work out what it would be). 

 

Is there anything in this hobby that's simple? 

 

Another Richard.

[mtaylor]

The French foot is approximately 10% bigger... actually 0.9384xxxxx% bigger.  It tis a bit of a headache to convert everything.....

[AnobiumPunctatum]

 

It doesn't appear many people do these large ships in 1/48 so maybe 1/72 would be more fitting.  If I did calculation right 1/48 means a 170 foot ship such as these would come out to 42.5 inches long, nearly 4 feet, which seems absolutely massive.

 

and these diemensions are only the hull. If you like to rigg her, the model will be much bigger.

[uss frolick]

That's a lot of Boxwood.

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

If 1/48 is massive, you would need to be crazy to build a 74 at 1/24! 

[mtaylor]

If 1/48 is massive, you would need to be crazy to build a 74 at 1/24! 

 

I don't know anyone that crazy...    :D