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Triton cross-section by tkay11 (aka Tony)

Triton cross-section Triton cross-section

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#41
mtaylor

mtaylor

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Nice work on the lower deck, Tony.  The extra step and research on the knees was beneficial and shows in the appearance.


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Mark

"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me


Current Build:

Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0

Past Builds:
Triton Cross-Section
USS Constellaton (kit bashed to 1854 Sloop of War (Gallery) Build Log
Wasa (Gallery)


Member of the Nautical Research Guild


#42
tkay11

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Thanks, Mark. I've just been figuring out how to cut out the knees accurately. Guess what! Yes, the trusty old jeweller's saw comes to the rescue. And I was just about to reach for the scroll saw!

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#43
tkay11

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The hanging knees

 

I spent some time thinking how to make the hanging knees. The most helpful thing was to cut the shapes using traced outlines of the knees from the plans, and see how they matched the dimensions on the model.

 

This showed me that I had to make the knees slightly thicker (siding dimension) and add a bit of height.

 

I then measured the thicknesses of the wall at the beam clamps and the lower plank strakes, which showed me by how much I had to adjust the steps. I transferred these measurements to the CAD outlines.

 

At first I had thought I’d use a scroll saw to cut out the hanging knees. On reflection I thought this would not allow the very fine cutting needed for shaping the steps of the knees against the planks.

 

I also experimented with cutting the steps out with a chisel, but this was a total failure.

 

In the end I realised that the best way to do it was in fact the simplest and easiest – using a jeweller’s saw!

 

This turned out to be fairly quick and accurate, with just a little bit of trimming to do with a barrette file.

 

The only slightly tricky knees to do were the ones against the beam arms, since they have to be angled with respect to the hull wall, and shaped against the curve of the arms. However, even that didn’t take up too much time.

 

I’ve shown these aspects in the pictures below.

 

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Now I can think about the extent to which I will plank the deck.

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#44
tkay11

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Thanks for the likes, everyone!

 

I forgot to mention in the log that my really most favourite tool is the TurboCAD programme. It makes adjustments to the plans extremely easy -- especially when I have to make adjustments as a result of my own errors!

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#45
AnobiumPunctatum

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Very fine cutting by hand. I've allways problems with doing this job manually


Edited by AnobiumPunctatum, 12 November 2016 - 07:01 AM.

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Regards Christian
 

In the shipyard: HM Sloop Fly, 1776 - Scale 1/32;

On the drawing board: Naval Cutter Rattlesnake, 1777 - Scale 1/32


#46
tkay11

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That's a very nice compliment, Christian. Thanks. From my point of view it was very much more pleasurable than doing it with a scroll saw. The lack of noise was a very important part of that! Interestingly, it doesn't take that much longer either. The scroll saw is a keeper, though, for the times when a lot has to be done.

 

I think that it's not so much any particular skill that I have, but the little jig that I used that I saw on a YouTube video about how to use a jeweller's saw. That long thin line down the middle really does help keep the saw vertical. I don't have the link any more, but I'm sure a search would find it.

 

Thanks also to those who've been sending me their 'likes'!

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#47
tkay11

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Fixing my mistakes

 

I’m really glad I didn’t start all over again after finding I had over sanded the frames 5. It gave me an opportunity to learn how to fix them. I just layered them with 0.5mm veneer that I had left over from my Sherbourne build and sanded to the widths of frames 4. A lovely little exercise, albeit not perfectly done!

 

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Waterways

 

Back to the next steps, or rather planks. I puzzled a bit as to how to cut the waterways, but eventually decided to use my saw as it can be angled. The following diagram shows how I set about making the cuts (actually there was a slight variation in the final angles, but the diagram shows the principles I used):

 

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Lower deck planking

 

I’m leaving just under half of the lower deck un-planked as is common practice. The planks that are partially over the other half are to allow for the stairs and possible pillars (I was undecided at the time of planking as to whether to add pillars to the side of the stairs, but after a recent discussion on the forum I reckon I’ll leave them out as there was no clear decision as to whether they should be there or not, or whether they were movable).

 

One thing mentioned by David Antscherl but not shown on the plans is the larger central plank that supports the gun deck pillars. So I decided to add that.

 

I scribed lines along halfway marks of the beams to place the butt ends of the planks.

 

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Preparing the gun deck beams

 

As before I used the sliding device to measure the width for the beams at each beam station and bent them across a drill bit. This time the central bit was 3.5mm and I added a 2mm bit on either side to provide a more accurate curvature. (The lower deck beams tended to be straight on either side of the central curve after I had used only one drill bit).

 

Again I used the old hair dryer at full blast for two sessions of 10 minutes and then left the clamped beams overnight in the airing cupboard.

 

Attached File  P1020405 annot.jpg   323.53KB   0 downloads

 

I then bevelled the edges at 10 degrees to fit the angle of the sides, and cut a scrap piece of plywood to the exact height needed in order to test fit the beams.

 

Attached File  P1020404 annot.jpg   304KB   0 downloads

 

Next up is the preparation of the hanging knees and the lodging knees for the gun deck.

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#48
mtaylor

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NIce save on the frame, Tony.  Your problem solving is great and will pay off on future builds.   Interesting method for the waterways.  i fought with that one and I'm still not sure I won.


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Mark

"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me


Current Build:

Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0

Past Builds:
Triton Cross-Section
USS Constellaton (kit bashed to 1854 Sloop of War (Gallery) Build Log
Wasa (Gallery)


Member of the Nautical Research Guild


#49
tkay11

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Thanks, Mark (and Carl and G.L. for the like). I really am conscious that making mistakes now and learning how to deal with them is laying up a nice hoard of experience for future builds.

 

The trouble for the method for the waterway is that it will only work for a near straight run, as on the cross-section. For long curved runs round the full length of a ship I suppose I'd have to go the scraper way, and I have yet to learn how to do that.

 

I might well practise the scraper method for the gun deck waterway.

 

Tony


Edited by tkay11, 21 November 2016 - 09:14 AM.

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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#50
tkay11

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GUN DECK WATERWAYS

 

Having thought about the gun deck waterways I realised I just had to learn how to make and use a scraper as the shape was too complex for the simple use of a saw as I had done previously for the lower deck

 

So I made my scraper and found that it was not that hard to use – especially if I kept the old hacksaw blade edges really sharp by frequent rubbing on the diamond stone.

 

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PILLARS FOR GUN DECK BEAMS

 

These were shaped on the lathe as before. I am only using three pillars, and decided to leave off pillars on either side of the steps.

 

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BITT PINS

 

I first attempted to make these from single blocks of wood, but found that cutting the sheaves using a jeweller’s saw was too inaccurate. In addition, the mill bits I have are too short to go the full length.

 

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So I went the route of making them from three strips, with the central slice cut very simply with the desktop Proxxon saw.

 

The sheave holes were then cut in the outer strips again using the bench saw.

 

The sheaves themselves were cut in brass rod using one of my home-made gravers. I used dividers to establish the width of the sheave, then a jeweller’s saw to define the outer extent. After then cutting the groove in the sheave it was a simple matter to cut the sheave off the bar using the jeweller’s saw.

 

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Next up: putting together the beams, carlings, ledges etc for the gun deck.

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#51
mtaylor

mtaylor

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Very nice work, Tony.  The waterways look perfect as do the pillers and bitts. 


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Mark

"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me


Current Build:

Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0

Past Builds:
Triton Cross-Section
USS Constellaton (kit bashed to 1854 Sloop of War (Gallery) Build Log
Wasa (Gallery)


Member of the Nautical Research Guild


#52
markjay

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Really very nice work.

Mark


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Mark
Phoenix, AZ


Current builds;
HMS Fly building yards, Amati
Cutty Sark, Sergal/Manuta


Previous builds, in rough order of execution;
Shipjack, Peterbrough Canoe, Flying Fish, Half Moon, Brittannia racing sloop, Whale boat, Bluenose, Picket boat, Viking longboat, Atlantic, Fair American, Mary Taylor


#53
tkay11

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Thanks for the comments and likes! I'm beginning to get a hang of the rhythms and the requirements for accuracy of cutting and thinking in the various dimensions. It certainly is a very engrossing and rewarding to be building just from plans, and to keep developing new skills as we go along.

 

Another facet that is interesting is the increased focus on good use of basic hand tools -- saw, scalpel, chisel, scraper, file, compass, ruler, dividers, pencil, sanding stick -- and I really appreciate learning about them.

 

Tony


Edited by tkay11, 05 December 2016 - 12:43 AM.

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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#54
AnobiumPunctatum

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Nice progress, Tony. I like the way ypou build the bitts


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Regards Christian
 

In the shipyard: HM Sloop Fly, 1776 - Scale 1/32;

On the drawing board: Naval Cutter Rattlesnake, 1777 - Scale 1/32


#55
tkay11

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Thanks, Christian. I'm much enjoying your Fly -- as well as learning from the build.

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#56
DocBlake

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Very nicely done!


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Dave
 

Click on images in posts to view them in full resolution!

 

.

 

Current Builds:

 

 

-Fair American 1780 by DocBlake - Lauck Street Shipyard - 1/48 scale - POF

 

http://modelshipworl...-148-scale-pof/

 

 

 

-Independence 1775 by DocBlake - Artesania Latina - 5/16" scale

 

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-Armed Virginia Sloop 1768, 1/48 scale.

 

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-Armed Virginia Sloop 1768 "Patrick Henry", 1/32 scale, Lauck Street Shipyard, POF, Admiralty Style. 

 

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On Hold:

 

-Rattlesnake Mamoli 1/64 scale, Bob Hunt's Lauck Street Kit-Bash.

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#57
the learner

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Just perused your build an you have a fantastic start!

 On the gratings how do you adjust for camber?


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Cheers, Guy
The Learner
Current Member NRG,SMA

 

Current Build: HMS Triton 1:48 on line

 

 

 


#58
tkay11

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Thanks, Guy. I don't think I'll need to adjust for camber at the base as the gratings will fit into the coamings. On the upper surface I'll likely be sanding against a curve. I have the inside of an old cake tin that seems to have the camber needed, but if not I'll probably cut and sand a surface down and lay some sandpaper on it. It's a long way before I reach that though, so I've time to think about it.

 

What would you suggest?

 

By the way, how are you getting on with the full build?

 

Tony


Edited by tkay11, 09 December 2016 - 07:49 PM.

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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#59
tkay11

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A NOTE ON MEASUREMENTS

 

I thought I ought to mention a couple of possible difficulties for the unwary (i.e. myself!).

 

The first was that I cut sections out of the lower deck for the bitt pins using the plans for the lower deck layout pattern. This shows the bitt pin area at that level as being square, whereas of course by then the pins are not square, but have been shaped into a rectangle. I decided to keep the square holes and keep the bitt pins square, but that is not how they should be!

 

Attached File  LowerDeckLayoutPattern annot.jpg   325.59KB   0 downloads

 

The next thing to point out is that the shape of the hanging knees for the gun deck shown in the ‘midship cross section’ drawing that you can find with the full plans are different from the drawing of two hanging knees for the gun deck you find in the cross-section plans. I started by using the ones from the midship cross section, but found that the more accurate ones were those shown in the cross-section drawings.

 

Attached File  MidshipCrossSection@48-1 annot.jpg   337.13KB   0 downloads

 

PUTTING UP THE BEAMS

 

Because I had chosen to bend the beams with heat rather than cut the beams to the correct curvature it became necessary to keep the beam at the correct height with the chock I had used earlier. This allowed me to ensure the beams were cut to the correct length before placing the pillar for each beam.

 

Attached File  P1020437 annot.jpg   311.63KB   0 downloads

 

As I like to be reminded of the scale of the model, I took a contemporary drawing of a sailor and sized him to be 5’4” or 1.62 metres high and placed him on the gun deck.

 

The following shows the current state of the model with the waterways in place and the bitt pins placed but not yet glued as I’m still deliberating as to whether or not to paint them.

 

You'll notice that I changed my mind about not adding pillars on either side of the stairs for the forward beam. I had to put them in for the simple reason that the beam did not retain its full curvature after heat bending. Next time I'll follow David Antscherl's advice and cut the beams to the correct curvature!

 

Attached File  P1020442 annot.jpg   355.68KB   0 downloads

 

Next up will be the coamings for the forward hatch and perhaps the ladder and the grating coamings for the after hatch.

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#60
Dubz

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Nice job Tony :-) 

 

Dirk


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Member of the NRG
On build: HMC Sherbourne, USS Syren, Maria HF.31 Fishing Ewer, USS Confederacy
Next on list: Dutch Gunboat No5

Done: Revenue Cutter Alert

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