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Does it have to be wood?


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#1
Modeler12

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Elsewhere on this forum there is a heated discussion going on about the kind of wood to use for modeling, should you grow your own, etc.

But how about 'non-woods'?

I have seen beautiful models made out of ivory and bone. I am not sure if anyone has made a complete model out of metal, but how about Corian????

 

Corian is an acrylic based material made by DuPont for use in kitchen counter tops. We have it and I love it. It is easy to keep clean, works great for kneading pasta, and you can buff it to re-shine or repair the surface.
So, I tried to cut a piece left over and band-sawed it. Worked fine. Then I chucked a piece in my mill and cut a 1/16 inch groove. Worked like a charm with nice clean edges.

corian 1.jpg  corian 2.jpg

I want to use some to make cannons and carronades for my model. So, we'll see how that goes.

 

Does any one have experience working with Corian or other similar products? I know there are some Youtube videos out there.


Edited by Modeler12, 13 August 2016 - 02:45 AM.

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Jay

 

Current build Cross Section USS Constitution  http://modelshipworl...s-constitution/

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#2
Brian the extraordinaire

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I have seen battleship type models built  with their turrets and deck fittings using clear acrylic sheet (Perspex ).

 

Its great for building the superstructures on modern ships as it machines well, drills cleanly and sandpapers to a fine finish.


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#3
bear

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Ahoy

 

Use whatever works best for you. Most of the time whatever you use other than wood to start out with gets painted 99% of the time anyway,and who cares what's under the paint.

And I have used wood, brass plastic and steel for wooden parts that I ended up painting to look like wood in the end. And the result was that if I did not tell what it was made of,all thought it was WOOD!

In our building group our founder and owner of the hobby shop could not stand that I was using evergreen plastic for parts on my wooden ships instead of brass. We argued about it,I said that since it was painted black ,that if I had not told him otherwise,he would have assumed that it was made out of brass and either painted or blackened.

After about 3 years and beating him in contest's for those years,he finally is quite about the subject.

 

It's your shipyard.

Keith


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#4
bogeygolpher

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In my humble opinion, if you are going to call it a wooden ship model, those elements that would be made of wood on a real ship, should be made of wood.  

Non wood ship elements, I'm not sure it really makes any difference unless you're building it for a museum. 

 

Paul


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PROWE

 

If someone says something can't be done, it only means they can't do it.

 

Building:

 

MS 18th Century Longboat

 

Completed Builds:

 

Ships; AL Bluenose II 1989, Corel Toulonnaise 1995, Corel Flying Fish 2000, AL Scottish Maid 2005,

Sergal President 2010, Mamoli Beagle 2011, Corel Eagle 2013, Mamoli Constitution Cross-section 2014, Victory Cross-section 1/98 by Corel 2015

 

Card Models

Disney Nautilus 2010, Modelik PzKpfw IV Ausf.G 2013, Christmas Train by PaperReplika 2012, Canon Special Vehicle Series (Construction) 2013

Yamaha DSC11 Motorcycle 2013, Wrebbit Mercedes-Benz 500K Roadster 2014, Canon EOS 5D Mark II  2014,  WWII Tiger I Tank by Paper-Replika 2014,

Central Pacific no. 60 Jupiter card model 2015

 

 

#5
EJ_L

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If the model is for yourself and not for competition or museums then really it is completely up to you what materials you use in its construction. I would be interested to see what all could be done with different materials.
Corian is interesting and the company my admiral works for deals with it on a regular basis. Might be something I could look into though personally I would not put it on my wooden ships as I prefer to keep those all wood but I may have a use for it on the railroad. :)
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"Anchors Aweigh"

-E.J.

 

Current Builds - La Couronne - Corel &  Le Soleil Royal - Sergal

Completed - Wood - Rattlesnake - Model Shipways, HMS Bounty - Constructo

                      Plastic - USS Constitution - Revel (twice), Cutty Sark.

Unfinished - Plastic - HMS Victory - Heller, Sea Witch.

Member : Nautical Research Guild

 

 


#6
donrobinson

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This is very interesting. I would be interested to see how paintable it is. Have you tried turning it in a lathe yet? It might be a good medium for making cannons or real small dowels for axles and such or even belaying pins. Please keep us updated.


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#7
bear

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Ahoy Mates

 

Regarding wooden ship model contest's,who holds them and what are their rules?

As far as IPMS shows they used to be limited to only plastic models or some high percentage of plastic used in the model. The latest rules are stated as "material that is appropriate " which does not exempt wooden ship models.

 

Our local IPMS club changed their name from Oregon Historical Modelers Society  to Oregon Modelers Society since their are now more car builders and other types of modelers in the club. 

 

And I know that there are standards established for museums models.

 

Keith


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#8
Modeler12

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I will try to turn some of the Corian I have and see how small I can go (diameter). I also want to try other things like bending it (with a little heat?).

As far as I am concerned, ship modeling is just that and I don't call them 'wooden ship models'. Like I mentioned, there are beautiful museum quality models made out of ivory.
If you like to use wood for those parts made out of wood on the real ship, fine. But shouldn't you also be using steel for the cannons (not brass, although there were some, of course) and no plastic what so ever? Hemp should be used for the rigging, no synthetics, no nylon, of course. That I think is stretching things a bit too far B) .

 

For those interested, I will let you know about my machining experiments later on.


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Jay

 

Current build Cross Section USS Constitution  http://modelshipworl...s-constitution/

Finished USS Constitution:  http://modelshipworl...n-by-modeler12/

 

'A picture is worth a  . . . . .'      More is better . . . .


#9
donrobinson

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Looking forward to your results


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#10
mtaylor

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Jay,

 

Looks interesting.  I'm wondering about glue....?  


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Mark

"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me


Current Build:

Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0

Past Builds:
Triton Cross-Section
USS Constellaton (kit bashed to 1854 Sloop of War (Gallery) Build Log
Wasa (Gallery)


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#11
S.Coleman

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What about the dust off that material when cutting/ sanding. Is that really harmful?
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Regards, Scott

Current build: 1:75 Friesland, Mamoli

Completed builds:
1:64 Rattlesnake, Mamoli
1:64 HMS Bounty, Mamoli
1:54 Adventure, Amati
1:80 King of the Mississippi, AL
1:64 Blue Shadow, Mamoli
1:64 Leida Dutch pleasure boat, Corel
1:60 HMS President Mantra, Sergal

Awaiting construction:
1:89 Hermione La Fayette AL
1:48 Perserverance, Modelers shipyard

#12
Modeler12

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Ok, more questions and that is good.

Let me mention what I have done today. It is with regards to earlier questions.

 

Painting Corian is no problem. Will it stick? That is the real question and I will find out tomorrow morning after the sample below has had a decent time to 'cure'. The top and bottom of the slab were 'as received' and the edges were machined (and in one case sanded by me). I''ll scratch the surfaces tomorrow.

corian 10.jpg

Can I cut strips? I used my large table saw and cut a slice off the slab. I didn't really care to set the thickness exactly, I just wanted to see how it cut and what the surface looked like. I found that it cut more uniformly than most woods. It was easy to lead it through the saw blade and the cut surface was just fine. The thickness ended up being 0.085 inches with a variation of +/- 0.002 inches along its length.

corian 11.jpg

Will it bend? Corian is impervious to most liquids and steam won't do diddily.

Being a thermal plastic I figured heat would be the only way. As it turned out it took a lot of heat before it would take a change of shape. I broke the strip on my first try when I bent it too cold.

More heat and then a heavy weight did the trick.

corian 12.jpg
On hind sight, that is just as well, because this is a material for kitchen counter tops and I have placed hot pots on it with no harm (but not too long, please, says the admiral).

The material sands well. Is the dust harmful? Probably, if you were to inhale it. It is just like cutting any thermoplastic such as clear acrylic. It smell bad, so don't breath the smoke. If it smokes, stop cutting. Use ventilation and common sense.

 

Tomorrow I will try to put some on my mini lathe.


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Jay

 

Current build Cross Section USS Constitution  http://modelshipworl...s-constitution/

Finished USS Constitution:  http://modelshipworl...n-by-modeler12/

 

'A picture is worth a  . . . . .'      More is better . . . .


#13
Modeler12

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Jay,

 

Looks interesting.  I'm wondering about glue....?  

Good point, Mark.

I am positive that AC will work if the surfaces are smooth enough and in good contact.

After all, Kodak developed AC (known as Eastman 910 back then) for use in spllcing acetate film.

 

PVA most likely will not work and epoxy most likely will. I'll give them a try.

PVA was designed for use on wood products and I cannot see how that will hold plastics together.

Epoxies work with plastics if you prepare the surface by sanding, etc. The release agents used on plastic parts needs to be removed. 

 

Perhaps MEK based glues used on plastic models might work.

We'll see.


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Jay

 

Current build Cross Section USS Constitution  http://modelshipworl...s-constitution/

Finished USS Constitution:  http://modelshipworl...n-by-modeler12/

 

'A picture is worth a  . . . . .'      More is better . . . .


#14
mtaylor

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Jay,

You got my curiousity button pushed....   Googling says epoxy.

 

And painting:  http://www.paintcent...g/rj/aug04g.cfm


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Mark

"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me


Current Build:

Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0

Past Builds:
Triton Cross-Section
USS Constellaton (kit bashed to 1854 Sloop of War (Gallery) Build Log
Wasa (Gallery)


Member of the Nautical Research Guild


#15
Modeler12

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Mark, to repaint a counter top and expect it to be ok is a real test that paint will work. I am not sure that we have to worry too much about wear and tear for our model ships.

For an interesting article about epoxies go to:

https://davidneat.wo...resin-stick-to/

 

Note in particular the fact that epoxy resin is relatively harmless to the skin; however, the hardener can be very much so. There are several different chemicals that will act as 'hardeners' or catalysts, but the one I use causes itching very quickly after contact. I have to wash my hands with soap soon afterwards. Of course, the manufacturer won't tell you what they use, unless you send for their MSDS.


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Jay

 

Current build Cross Section USS Constitution  http://modelshipworl...s-constitution/

Finished USS Constitution:  http://modelshipworl...n-by-modeler12/

 

'A picture is worth a  . . . . .'      More is better . . . .


#16
Modeler12

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Before I go to bed tonight, I decided to add a couple more 'tests' about glue.

 

I took the broken pieces of Corian (0.085 inch thick) and glued them with some CA.

corian 13.jpg

Then I took the previously cut piece and glued it to the slab with some PVA.

corian 14.jpg

We'll see what happens tomorrow when I try to 'break' them along with the others.

I left out the epoxy test because I already know it would outshine the others. So why bother? :rolleyes:

 


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Jay

 

Current build Cross Section USS Constitution  http://modelshipworl...s-constitution/

Finished USS Constitution:  http://modelshipworl...n-by-modeler12/

 

'A picture is worth a  . . . . .'      More is better . . . .


#17
donrobinson

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Thanks for all of your time spent on this topic, I 'll be watching tomorrow for the final results. Then it'll be a matter of finding some to play with :)


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#18
Modeler12

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Don, that could be where the rub lies. The stuff is not cheap.

You can buy tiny samples at Home Depot or go directly to DuPont.

http://www.dupont.co...BI-corian-link2

You can see the large variety of colors to choose from.

 

A 2x2 inch sample costs $4.00 at DuPont (or $10 at Home Depot). A 10x10 inch sample is $23.50. Don't ask how much a whole counter top would cost.

 

If there is a local contractor who installs kitchen counter tops, you might be able to get some scrap pieces. That is how I got mine.

If I can turn it well on my lathe, I might still consider buying some black for making the cannons I need, or paint them.


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Jay

 

Current build Cross Section USS Constitution  http://modelshipworl...s-constitution/

Finished USS Constitution:  http://modelshipworl...n-by-modeler12/

 

'A picture is worth a  . . . . .'      More is better . . . .


#19
EJ_L

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How is the weight? I guess if it was only a few pieces it would not be very noticable but if you used a lot of it, say if you were to use it make canons on a 100 plus gun ship, how much weight difference do you think there would be?

I am familiar with Corian as my wife sells it at her work but I have never worked with it personally and she is not familiar enough with model ships or the scales we deal with to give me an accurate estimation on the weight ratios.
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"Anchors Aweigh"

-E.J.

 

Current Builds - La Couronne - Corel &  Le Soleil Royal - Sergal

Completed - Wood - Rattlesnake - Model Shipways, HMS Bounty - Constructo

                      Plastic - USS Constitution - Revel (twice), Cutty Sark.

Unfinished - Plastic - HMS Victory - Heller, Sea Witch.

Member : Nautical Research Guild

 

 


#20
Modeler12

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Weight should not be a problem if you compare it with materials typically used to make cannons. Brass and pewter are much heavier. Wood is lighter but not often used to make cannons. I don't know the exact density of Corian but it is probably similar to Plexiglass (acrylics).

 

Here are some results of my tests. I took videos of all of this but it takes a while to edit and publish that. Perhaps I'll add more later and show the results. But let me use words instead, right now.

 

1. Bonding Corian with PVA did not work. It fell apart almost by lifting the pieces off the table. No big surprise.

2. My first try using CA did not fare much better, but that was because I did not sand the surfaces. They were as cut on my table saw. When I repeated the CA test after sanding the results were much better. Pulling on the two strips was very strong (I could not break it). However, when bent the two came apart with a snap. This 'cleavage test' is tough on any adhesive including epoxy.

3. Borden's plastic cement did not work very well which surprised me.

 

The upshot is to try epoxy and if that does not work I'll give up using Corian for anything that needs a strong bond.

 

Meanwhile I tried turning a square piece in my small lathe. I purposely had the piece stick out of the chuck by about 2 inches. As expected, it chattered a lot when I used a regular bit until I got down to round stock. I forced the issue and took a good size bite which broke the piece in two. The cantilevered end just did not like what I did to it.

 

I repeated this but after getting it round, I drilled a center hole in the end and used a center support to turn the piece down to about 3/16 inch. After that I forced the bit towards the center and as expected the part broke.

With care I am sure I could have gone down to 1/8 inch diameter and with a shorter piece and some support down further. However, I learned enough to say that this was no worse than I have happen with wood. Metals such as brass are better, of course.

 

Finally let me just say that I would not make a 'wooden ship model' with Corian, but I may use it for small parts such as cannons and special items. 

 

Let me add this picture. The drawing is full size of the cannons I need. The break did not come as a surprise because I knew that I was stretching the bite I was taking. So, next time . . .

corian 15.jpg


Edited by Modeler12, 14 August 2016 - 06:45 PM.

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Jay

 

Current build Cross Section USS Constitution  http://modelshipworl...s-constitution/

Finished USS Constitution:  http://modelshipworl...n-by-modeler12/

 

'A picture is worth a  . . . . .'      More is better . . . .





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