Louie da fly
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Everything posted by Louie da fly
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Hmm, I think I can call myself an Aussie Rules fan, but as I'm a sandgroper and came to Victoria late in life I'm not sure I get the reference - unless it's the grandstand railings at Brunswick St Oval? Steven -
Looking very good, Chris. So many railings - you have amazing patience. Steven
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Well, I'm even more impressed. You've produced a beautiful model without the benefit of formal plans. My hat's off to you. Your figurehead is looking good, too. You've made a good beginning - keep at it. I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out. Steven
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More deck planking. I'm following Druxey's suggestion to have the planks different widths. It doesn't look all that different (widths vary from 3.5 to 5mm), but it's closer to the likely reality. The socket for the spur. I've made it out of pine, and will smooth it off and paint it to resemble iron. I've had to cut it away in places to allow for the stempost and the wales. There also will be reinforcements to the socket following the line of the wales, perhaps to be made of wood, but painted to resemble iron. I've also made a trial piece for the iron-shod head of the spur. Not very happy with it. I'm thinking of doing it in aluminium sheet instead, because wood really doesn't do the job or look good. Steven
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A beautiful restoration, performed with admirable persistence, attention to detail and refusal to accept second best. I take my hat off to you, sir. Steven
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- albertic
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How did I miss this wonderful build? Beautiful work throughout Christos, and those sails are a real treat! Steven
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According to Age of the Dromon: ". . . there were also periboloi on either side at the prow, from which the anchors were lowered. Periboloi were also listed in the inventories for the Cretan expedition of 949 . . . Our best suggestion for the meaning of peribolos is “cathead”. On Greek triereis the epotides, the transverse “cheek timbers” of the outriggers at the bows, had apparently served for this purpose; however, with their passing something like catheads must have become necessary on galleys. Other ships of any size must always have had something like catheads. Leo VI . . . said that it was the duty of one of the two oarsmen at the bow to cast, (ballein), the anchors into the sea." In this picture there are two vertical pieces of wood at the bow which I believe are the periboloi. Not catheads as such, but performing a similar function. The anchor cables would have run around these, leading thence to the windlass at the break of the forecastle. And here's my interpretation of them: The edges are rounded to minimise chafing, and they are fixed to the beam shelf and, at the bottom, to the nearest frame. Steven
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You could be right, Druxey. None of the Yenikapi galleys had deck planks because they were only single-banked. The archaeological drawing of YK4 has hull planking widths which do vary somewhat, from about 350 to 500mm. However, the wider planks are closest to the keel, and it's a bit hard to tell whether the variation is real or an illusion caused by looking straight down on the curve of the hull at the turn of the bilge. I don't know that there is any particular reason the deck planks should all be the same width, but I'll think about it. Steven
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First deck planking. Beginning the decking on the prymne. Also I've run a temporary batten tacked in place with a few spots of glue, with one edge running along the centre line of the ship to fix the run of the main deck planks. And I've completed the plating on the spur. Prymne decking complete and partly sanded. One plank has been glued next to the batten between the break of the poop and the hatch; once all that line of planks are in place the batten will be removed. I still have to complete the sanding on the prymne and cut off the planks in a straight line at the break of the poop. And then get onto the main planking in earnest. (It's important to be Earnest - ask Oscar Wilde) Steven
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Thanks, Druxey. I was really just after a ball-park sort of figure, and what you've provided is very helpful. The TAMU paper I have contains some archaeological finds of links which I'll also have another look at, though if I remember correctly they're from several centuries too late. Still, any information that helps me to a decision is worthwhile. A dromon with a crew of over 100 shouldn't have too much of a problem finding enough men to man the pumps. They weren't always rowing and even when they were, much of the time not all the oars were in use. Steven
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She's looking good, John. I've been enjoying following this log - very interesting, particularly from a research point of view, and the personal connection adds to the interest even further. Hope the health problems get sorted out and you'll be free to get back and enjoy yourself to the fullest with the build. Steven
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HMCSS Victoria 1855 by BANYAN - 1:72
Louie da fly replied to BANYAN's topic in - Build logs for subjects built 1851 - 1900
Can you still get that stuff? I used it for the sails of my Great Harry model way back in the 60's, but I thought it had vanished off the face of the earth. I have to warn you, however, that my sails went all brown and brittle over the decades, but that may have been the mistreatment and neglect after I stuffed the part-demolished model in a cardboard box and left it for about 40 years. (I'd intended to fix it all up, but moved states, changed jobs and repeatedly changed address and got on with other things in life. I still intend to fix it up after the current build and I'll probably do a better job now than I would have then). Steven- 993 replies
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Another question - does anyone know how big the top cogwheels of the chain pump were/should be? Is there a sort of standard size, or does it vary with the size of ship? And if it varies, how big should they be for a dromon - a ship 30 metres (90 feet) long that is long and narrow? Rough estimates totally acceptable. I just want to get an idea of the size I should be looking at for my chain pumps, because currently I have no idea at all except for trying to estimate it from looking at pictures of them on models. Thanks in advance, Steven
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Hi, Lin. The Trincomalee is a very worthwhile model to make and you're doing a very good job on her. I've always wanted to do one of HMS Shannon, which was pretty much a sister ship of the Trincomalee. Just a question - did you have already existing plans to work from or did you draft them yourself? I don't consider myself an expert carver (there are much better ones on this forum alone), but you might like to look at page 7 of my own build log (near the bottom of the page) going from blocks of wood to finished figures. I use pear wood as it has a nice tight grain. I concur with Druxey's points: *Making a plasticiene test piece works very well, particularly with a difficultly shaped figure. I cut a rectangular section block of wood to start with, so I can draw on all four faces if I need to. *I make the block about twice the length of the figure so I have something to hold onto while I'm carving. This is a variant on Druxey's idea but works the same. I cut the piece roughly to shape with a coping saw, then remove unwanted wood with a Stanley knife, then for fine detail move on to a scalpel with a No. 11 blade (you can buy them from some chemists or medical suppliers, along with the proper scalpel handle) - I don't like the "craft knives with a similar blade - I find the blade always seems to come unscrewed at the worst possible moment. I cut away in "layers" - leaving the highest profile bits in place and cutting away deeper and deeper as appropriate to the specific part of the figure. The absence of bloodstains on the figure indicates you're probably already careful with sharp blades, but care is vital. Also use Youtube. There are some very good videos out there which are well worth watching. Have fun with it. Steven
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Different artistic conventions. I believe the "big" eye was the way things were done (look at the eyes on Greek galleys) though our own sensibilities seem to demand something a little more subtle. Steven
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Nice work, Patrick. And an ingenious solution for the rudder attachment. A very enjoyable build to follow. Steven
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Thanks everybody for all the likes and the kind comments. Don, just tried it. Through the cargo hatch no worries (you have to slide the oar through the hatch at a small angle above the horizontal - and have someone below decks to receive it), a rather tighter squeeze through the companionway, but it can just be done. I'm now finishing the plating on the spur and also just beginning at least part of the deck planking. Other projects I'm looking at are getting under way on the yards and making the anchors. Here are pictures of the anchor from the contemporaneous Byzantine Serce Limani ship. Judging by the size compared to a human the scale is presumably in centimetres. The anchor in 1:50 scale is just over 1mm thick at its thickest point and I'll be making them in 1mm sheet brass and then colouring them to look like iron. I have a cunning plan to get that extra bit of thickness in the brass where it matters - cutting the shank a little too wide and then annealing and belting it with a hammer so it gets narrower and thicker. Should be fun. Steven
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Yes, I'm afraid it is - see post #271 on page 10 of this thread to see why. I finally decided I'd have to accept the slight out-of-squareness after my repairs, because it would have required just too much extra work to correct. I decided I'd just have to put it down to experience, and I'll know more for the next build. Steven
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Finally finished the deck beams. Here are some progress pictures. Still quite a way to go Gradually closing up the gaps. Finished! There are four openings - two for the masts, one for a cargo hatch and the other for a companionway. And here are some of the wood shavings from making the last lot of beams. Note that this little table is currently all I have of workspace, so it gets pretty cluttered and I tend to lose things. But I have a cunning plan, which cannot possibly fail . . . And here is a view of the completed beams from the bow. For a first effort at this level, I don't think it's too bad. Now I have to work out what planking I can do while still leaving enough visibility below decks to put the lower bank of oars in place. Nice to have got this far. A real milestone! Steven
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That's pretty amazing. The stern rudder must have been invented by the Liburnae and lost again, because it doesn't reappear for about another 1500 years! They survived as a major naval power from at least the time of the carving (5th/6th century BC) to the second half of the 1st century BC. According to Wikipedia, the source of all knowledge, at some point they evolved from monoremes to biremes and made such an impression on the Romans that they copied the liburna and even adopted its name for their own light fast ships. The name persisted for centuries, long after the Liburnae themselves were forgotten as a race. How long they kept these stern rudders is anybody's guess; they may have dropped them in favour of side rudders themselves, in imitation of their neighbours, or they may have kept them until they themselves vanished as a seagoing power. But why wouldn't the cultural flow go the other way as well? Why don't we see others copying the stern rudder? Are side rudders more effective in galleys than stern rudders? There appears to be evidence in favour of that - according to Lawrence Mott's 1991 TAMU thesis The Development of the Rudder, A.D. 100-1600 - A Technological Tale, side rudders are more efficient and give better control than do stern rudders. As I understand it, this is because the keel doesn't interfere with the water flow. Very interesting. Steven
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Thanks for the replies. That helps clear a few things up. Just to clarify, the top of the pump mechanism (the top wheels and the handles) would be on the upper deck itself? (I think I've already answered this, but I'd like to make sure.) And regarding the dales, a pipe or hose across the upper deck leading to a scupper on each side? Thanks again. Steven
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Progress on the deck beams. Earlier in the thread, the effect of the spur's weight on the ship's trim was discussed, and I decided that storing the water barrels aft should offset the weight of the spur. So I've put a hatch about 1.5x1.2 metres (5'x4') aft of the middle mast to allow for the water barrels to be lowered into the hull. It's in the second photo but doesn't show up well because I took the photo with too little light. I discovered the beam shelves for the prymne (poop deck) were a bit out of alignment with those for the main deck, which caused the prymne's deck beams to be angled upwards towards the port side. Not very much, really, and my inner demon told me "go on, leave it - nobody will notice". But I'll notice, and if I didn't fix it, it would sneer at me for the rest of time. So one by one I'm taking off the beams and shaving the bottoms at the port end, so effectively the beam will be returned to the horizontal. I've done three so far. You can see the difference in the photo below. A lot of fiddly work, but worth it in the long run. Oh, and I had a very fortunate find. I wanted some chain to support the spur, and had decided to visit all the local op shops (charity stores) to see if there were any cheap jewellery chains I could get hold of. But before I did, my wife and I visited our local branch of Ishka, a shop that sells stuff with a hippie emphasis, Indonesian furniture, that kind of stuff. Found a multiple-chained necklace for $12.50, reduced to 50% on sale, exactly right for the dromon. But that wasn't the best thing. A necklace with really fine chains, in black metal (what, like iron?), already reduced from $24.50 to $5.00, further reduced by 50% to $2.50! I checked to see if this really was the price and being told it was, went and got the only other one in the shop as well. Ideal for the grapnel chain for my sadly neglected Great Harry model which is on the list for eventual restoration and repair. Score! Here's the chain with the spur. I now have enough chain to outfit a fleet! Anyone in Oz wanting some really cool chain might be well advised to check Ishka out. Steven
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I have some questions regarding chain pumps. Apparently these are the most appropriate pumps for my Byzantine dromon (as remnants were found on the contemporary Byzantine Serce Limani wreck). As I'd never heard of chain pumps before this week, I've done a search through previous posts and they've cleared up the worst of my iggerance, but I still have a few questions. * In the models I've seen, chain pumps always seem to come in pairs - a port and a starboard one. Was this always the case? There were never any single chain pumps? * In all the pictures and models I've seen the pumps seem to be cut off at the outlet (the dale?). Am I right in thinking this leads to scuppers via a pipe or hose? * The dromon only has one deck; the upper deck (if you ignore a little poop deck). So would the pumps and dales be on this upper deck? * In an earlier thread which dealt with chain pumps Druxey replied I realise this is a very different kind of ship from a completely different time and culture and I do have the Serce Limani ship still to check, but lacking surviving evidence to the contrary, would I be safe enough putting the chain pumps "a few feet aft of the main mast"? Any help with these questions would be gratefully received. Steven
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