Louie da fly
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Thanks everybody for the likes and the comments. Roger, ancient Mediterranean ships were certainly built this way, but the the first millenium AD saw a transition between tenon and framed construction and by the time of this dromon shipbuilding had almost completely evolved to a fully framed method with very few or even no tenons between planks. I'm pretty sure none of the Yenikapi galleys had any tenons at all. Mark, in Age of the Dromon Professor Pryor states (based on 12th century Sicilian galleys) that the fore was the "main" sail and the "middle" was smaller. On the other hand, the only Byzantine picture of two-masted galleys (from the late 9th century - about 200 years before mine) shows the foremast smaller than the "middle" mast. [Edit: Though evolution did occur in Byzantine ship design, it was pretty slow. The Yenikapi galleys span several centuries but have only minor variations between them. Which leads me to believe the picture below is probably almost as appropriate for the 11th century as for the 9th.] However, as Prof Pryor says, that may be artistic licence - perhaps an attempt to fit the picture into a restricted space on a page. In earlier posts, particularly those of June 21-24 I've outlined my reasoning for the masts and yards. There's very little out there, either pictorial or written, and absolutely nothing in the archaeological record. According the the theory, I've got a pretty good relationship between the sails, with the "combined centre of effort" of the sails a little forward of the centre of resistance of the hull. Ideally it should be pretty much directly above, but a little forward is pretty ok too. And no, the galleys were pretty much confined to sailing before the wind because a heel of more than 10 degrees would have swamped them. Messis, thanks very much for the compliment. Steven
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First action - making new frames to accommodate the new shape at the stern. Steven
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Thanks, Druxey. I certainly hope so - it's really all I have to go on. Still, who's going to tell me I'm wrong? Ah, for a time machine . . . Steven
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I don't know how I missed this build log up till now. You've done a very good job with this. It's really interesting to see you taking on what is really a pretty steep learning curve, What I particularly liked was that rather than do what so many newbies do and try to build something far too complicated and difficult (usually HMS Victory!) which normally ends in failure and disappointment, you took on something simple enough but with enough challenges, to allow you to methodically carry it all through, picking up skills and knowledge as you go, resulting in an impressive final product. The next and subsequent models will be better still, and you'll keep on amassing skills and experience till you'll be the guy whose builds people refer others to as an example of what to do. Welcome to a fascinating (and addictive) hobby! Steven
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Lest it be thought revisiting the Great Harry has caused me to neglect the dromon, I've been working on the yards and trying to reconcile the yard lengths and mast heights with what's in the contemporary records, what's theoretically best for sailing, and what looks right. Here are the yards squared off but not yet rounded. Then rounded off. The masts and yards are made of walnut from the neighbour's tree which died some years ago and which I've been gradually using up. I have a suspicion that masts would have been made of fir, but contemporary pictures show a dark timber, so I feel justified using walnut. Once I'd dry fitted the masts and yards they looked too long, likely to capsize the ship, so I've revisited both I ended up making the yards the length of the foreyard estimated in Age of the Dromon and made new masts [edit: which were shorter, but longer than the masts in the book], that look right with the yards. As the yards are each made of two spars, I just had to slide the spars past each other till the overlap gave me the length I wanted. Here is the ship with the long masts and yards (temporarily held in place with rubber bands). And here it is with the shorter ones. The shorter ones look better to me, and if I decide to go with them I'll be shortening the spars that make up the yards to fit within the range of overlaps shown in contemporary pictures. There's a lot of theoretical speculation in all of this and the best I can do in the long run is go with what I think is right. Steven
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Not necessarily. This ship dates from fairly early in the development of shipborne artillery and the guns were still pretty small - see the artillery from the Lomellina wreck of 1516 at http://www.archeonavale.org/lomellina/an/l_11a.html Also this was a merchant rather than a dedicated warship (though it could have filled both roles if needed) and would not have carried the largest calibre of guns available. Steven
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Of course it is! Old memories, and regrets that I made a model of this quality as a teenager, almost finished it, then pulled it to bits and neglected it for decades. And a determination to eventually do it justice. Don't think it hasn't occurred to me. But I really think it deserves better of me after all these years. Patrick, I've already got a copy of this thesis, but you've inspired me to have another, closer look at it and I'm seeing things there I'd never noticed before, so thank you. Roger, I have all the pics and contemporary descriptions from the Anthony Roll (they're downloadable from the Net), but they're not in book form, just digital, and perhaps the quality isn't as high as in the book. The appendices and glossary would be very useful, too. Terminology has certainly changed over the centuries. I've done a little investigatory work on all this (I find language fascinating!), which I've put up at for those who are interested in this kind of thing. I find it particularly interesting, for example, that the 16th century word for boatswain is botisman. The word swain for "man" is very old (dates back to Anglo-Saxon times, and the Scandinavian name Sven is the same word). Steven
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Thanks, Roger. Is there much explanatory text in it? I have the pictures themselves, but background text might indeed be useful. The other vessels on the Roll are also very interesting - I've thought of doing a 1:200 model of each class of vessel to go with the Great Harry - the roo barges, the "galeasses" (really they seem to be missing oars entirely and are more like galleons) and the galea subtile . . . but there's even less information available on them than on the Great Harry. Might be fun, though. Steven
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Back to the Great Harry after a delay of over two and a half years. All this time I've been working on a folding table in my wife's sewing room/ironing room, which also doubles as a bedroom for the incontinent old dog (which means we have to mop the floor every morning and can't leave a chair on the floor). Just this week we finished converting the sitting room/library/spare bedroom, so I've finally got a dedicated space to work on models which has storage space, a nice big desk with drawers in it, a chest of shallow drawers, and overhead shelves for reference books and tools and two more shelves each with enough vertical room for a ship model, masts and all. Not as much light here as in the other room, so I'm going to have to work on that. I hate working with insufficient light. So now I can work on the Great Harry when I'm stuck/bored with the dromon. I've put together a little stand to hold her upright while I'm working on her. My first project will be to re-do the frames I made two and a half years ago as I've realised the flat stern extends well below water level, which would stop water flowing past the rudder. Looking forward to it. The ship's been sitting there sneering at me far too long . . . Steven
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Very good progress so far, Peter. Looking good. Steven
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Well, those are what heraldry would call a leopard "proper" (in its own natural colours), and a blazon (heraldic description) would certainly take the trouble to point out that it was a real leopard rather than a "leopard". Carving hair to look natural is an absolute bugger. Generally most carvings of people tend to oversimplify its features and curls etc, even when, as shown below, the thing is enormous (designed to be seen from quite a distance). I've done a little at 1:50, but when the scale gets down to 1:80 as you're doing, it becomes almost impossible. Generally, at that size the finer detail becomes pretty hard to see with the naked eye anyway. Looking good. Steven
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Yes, at least one - see Steven
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They're obviously snow leopards, just emerging from winter . . . Steven PS: In heraldry a "leopard" has no spots - in fact the name leopard denotes a lion(!) passant gardant (walking past in profile, but looking at the viewer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_(heraldry)
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Hi, Rod. I'd echo Vossy's remarks. The longboat is a nice and relatively easy intro to wooden modelling, but it's a huge leap from there to the Endeavour herself. It might be good after finishing the longboat to take on something intermediate in difficulty, perhaps a naval cutter (such as the Cheerful), before moving up to the Endeavour. In the meantime best of luck and success with the longboat kit. There are certainly build logs for it on the forum to refer to, and the people here are very willing to help with advice and guidance. Steven
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Beautiful work, Dan. A project and a finished result to be proud of. Steven
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Deck planking finished to the point where I have to stop for the time being. I need to leave a certain amount open to see through so I know where to fix the lower bank of oars. And second anchor roughly cut to shape. Steven
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Tecko, that water is incredibly convincing! I've bookmarked your build so I can steal your ideas when I go to make a diorama. Steven
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Greg, have you been to Point Cook airbase to see the restored Walrus they have there? Not really anything to do with this build (which is amazing - when I grow up I want to be this good), but worth a look. Steven
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It looked totally ok! No obvious problems with the grain, no obvious knots, then SNAP! Well I've replaced the spar and well into number three of four. Wish me luck! Steven
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That looks REALLY good, Tecko! I only wish I could be up there to see it in person. Steven
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Thanks for the good wishes, Pat, but it's just too far for me to drill, especially as I don't have a drill press. I expect I'll find another use for the piece of wood, and in the meantime I'm making up a replacement. Steven
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Just working on the second spar of the lateen yard and - AAAARGHHH!!. There must have been a flaw in the wood. I was filing it all smooth after having trimmed it almost to shape with a Stanley knife, and the end broke clean off. Nothing I can do. If I glue it back together it will just break again, probably at the most inconvenient possible time. I thought maybe a pin joining the two ends, but I really don't have the equipment (or the skill) to drill to that level of precision. And after all that work, too. Still, I'd rather have it happen now than later. And I have plenty more wood, so off we go again with a new piece, starting all over again. By the way, I should have been a little more informative regarding the Serce Limani anchor. It would originally have had a stock, but being made of wood it would have disintegrated in the 1000 years underwater since she sank. Steven
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