Cathead
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Everything posted by Cathead
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There hasn't been much advice needed so far. You're clearly done your basic steamboat research (more than many builders). As for the painting question, overall white was the standard color on these vessels but you're certainly right that some of those photos imply that raw/varnished wood would be acceptable for certain interior details. There was a lot of variation between individual boats. I was also intrigued by that staircase photo from the JM White, where it appears the camber of the deck is curving down and away from the bottom of the flat staircase in both directions. This amused me because (a) it would've been pretty easy to fill those gaps one way or another for a better appearance on such a grand vessel, and (b) it looks like some simple beginner's modeler mistake, leaving gaps like that. There's a prototype for everything!- 117 replies
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Burn marks sound like the tool was pushed too hard/fast on hard wood, and/or isn't sharp enough. I wouldn't think thread would be a budget-buster!
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Those look quite nice!
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I saw your comment in John Ruy's log and decided to check out your log. Looks like an interesting project and you've got a good grounding in steamboat basics. I'll happily follow along and see what you can do with this. Best wishes for continued recovery from your surgery.
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Welcome! Both my parents grew up in the Philippines, one in Manila and one down in Mindanao and Cebu. I think you've made a very smart choice in starting with a series of smaller models that will help you build skills. Many of the tips given to new builders attempt to nudge them away from getting in over their heads, buying too many tools or too-fancy models. I love the idea of using recycled materials and the path you've chosen will help get you there. Please share your journey with us!
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Thanks, I see it now, and can recognize it in your previous photo. Very interesting. Is it possible it's anchored to a structural post and descends down to the keel (I could convince myself those angle inward, though that could be perspective), acting to help support the bow? Honestly not sure why that would be needed, larger boats than this didn't do that, but it's a thought.
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Can you clarify which hog chains you're referring to? I'm having a hard time seeing what you mean in the photo above. The drawings certainly show a normal-looking set of longitudinal hog chains and you appear to have the braces for these properly set up, but these seem to end within the main deck superstructure so I don't know which boiler room doors you mean. Maybe a drawing or an annotated photo?
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Personally I've found that acrylic paints slowly dry out over time, even in a tight bottle, but that they can be rejuvenated with a bit of water. It's best to do this when they've just gotten a bit thicker, as opposed to when they're really set and dried. But different brands probably work different ways. Like many things, best to check on them now and then rather than forgetting about them for years until you need them! Congratulations on finishing the hull, it's very attractive.
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I'll follow over from your other build, have fun with this one! Definitely fewer railings...
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This looks super interesting, though I'm late to the party. Are you planning on painting the cherry hull & stem, or leaving it natural?
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Just stumbled across this, happy to follow along. Great job on those anchors, bodes well for future upgrades and your expressed interest in doing more scratch-building.
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Cool prototype, hope you can keep the log up! It'll be fun to follow.
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Keep the faith! The marathon does end someday. Quick note, as those meant to be fire barrels and buckets in white? If so, to the best of my knowledge these were always painted red.
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I've scratch built a few (see signature links), nothing museum quality but nothing to scoff at either, using virtually all simple hand tools. All my work is done on a 2'x3' table with occasional forays outdoors for some of the dustier work. I cheated and used a band saw and a dremel a few times, but that's it, and I could have done it without those, it just would have been slower and more obnoxious. Oh, and I've milled some of my own wood using a Byrnes table saw, but if you buy wood that's not necessary. So I certainly don't think you need anything more than you say you have, especially if you have patience. I've no doubt that more toys tools make many things easier, but you asked about need, not want!
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My thoughts exactly. Looking for a unicorn buyer. It's possible a modeling club could be interested, as a way to maintain a lending library, but it'd have to be a pretty substantial club.
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Given that lots of riverboat pilots were from divided border states like Missouri and Kentucky, along with the southern-most tier of Union states like Ohio and Indiana, it wouldn't surprise me if there was a fair amount of diversity in where their support went. Weren't a lot of, say, die-hard Mainer Unionists with decades of experience on the lower Mississippi. On the pay front, commercial steamboat traffic crashed during much of the war, so pilots may have been employable at more affordable rates than usual since there wasn't as much normal work. Plus, the Federal government had money to throw around, so may even have paid them pretty well. I'm reading a new book on the 1865 Sultana disaster right now, and it documents quite a lot of graft in the way contracts were used and abused for the shipping of freed Union POWS upriver. The Feds were paying good money for shipping services at a time when river traffic was low, and everyone wanted a piece of the action. Pilots could have been the same. Definitely a good question on the chain of command, wish I knew. It certainly had to be more structured than in civilian life, no way a pilot could refuse military orders the way they could a regular captain. Honestly, the same question goes for pilots on the various regular steamers used in government service as transports. So much to know!
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Brian, yes, pilots and captains were totally different. River pilots were licensed independently (they, along with the chief engineer, were the only crewmembers required by law to have any training or licensure) and had to complete rigorous apprenticeships to ensure they knew the rivers they would be piloting on. They were roughly equivalent to harbor pilots, but much more powerful since they controlled the entire voyage, not just entry to/from a harbor. Most boats carried two pilots so there could always be one on duty. Captains did not have the authority to overrrule pilots in any matter of navigation or operational matters. Captains essentially oversaw the business management of the boat and would naturally set the intended schedule/destinations, but the actual act of getting there was out of their hands. Pilots also operated independently and were not tied to a specific boat in any way (unless they signed a contract). They took jobs as they saw fit. Because of this, competent pilots were a prized commodity and could often extract exorbitant fees from captains (boats could not legally or practically operate without pilots). There are lots of stories of pilots playing desperate captains off one another for higher trip rates or other concessions.
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Brian, my apologies, I completely and shamefully misinterpreted and misused terminology. Never mind. The way you describe it, though, the use of pilots on these naval vessels sounds exactly the same as normal river practice, where the pilot was the de facto captain of the vessel, while the "real" captain was more of a business manager and had no say or authority over navigation.
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Awesome! Also, I love snakes, and would happily have hand-caught and carried that fellow out for you. One thought on the bell location in front of vs. atop the wheel house: in most regular steamboats I've seen, the bell was located in front of the wheelhouse on the hurricane deck. I assume this is not only because, as you said, the wheelhouse would have been too flimsy, but also because it makes running a pull rope from the wheelhouse out to the bell easy: it goes out the front, not up through the roof. This detail can be seen on many historic photos. Finally, and this thought just occurred to me, having a large bell tolling right over the pilot's head might have deafened him; better to have it out further in front?
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Krisan, Many responses here are kind and welcoming, as are most people here, but they also don't seem to have actually read your question as they advise buying kits or other materials and you specifically say you want to scratch-build a ship using Sintra board and styrene. Roger's response, on the other hand, is thoughtful and quite relevant and I urge you to take it seriously. One thing that would help us help you is to clarify what sort of ships you're interested in. 18th century sailing ships? Modern freighters? Viking longships? Small fishing boats? There are so many different options and it's hard to advise you specifically without knowing more. However, taking your question at face value, I'll tell you about the first model ships I made, at roughly your age. I was obsessed with World War II history at the time, particularly naval history. I made a whole fleet of freighters and warships using nothing more than popsicle sticks, which I glued together face-to-face to build up hulls and superstructures, sanded or carved as needed, and painted. They actually looked quite good for how simple they were (I wish I still had photos), and were a great start in figuring out how to make three-dimensional models from basic materials. So with your materials, you could also use this "layer cake" approach to glue up some hulls that you could then carve or sand down to the shape you want. As Roger says, making water-line models (that don't extend below where the water would be) simplifies things at first because the most complex parts of most hulls are below water. I'm not sure what kind of styrene you have (sheets? dowels? other shapes?) but it could be cut and shaped to make masts, guns, and other parts. Finally, I'd say don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Just dive in and try something, learn from it, and try again.
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I'm so glad you found my method inspiring and useful! Thanks for crediting it, and nice work.
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Steamboats and other rivercraft - general discussion
Cathead replied to Cathead's topic in Nautical/Naval History
So I've been given permission to share this image and say the newly found wreck is near Boonville, MO, but I can't give the vessel's name (though they're quite confident they know) or anything else. More info will be coming out eventually but this is image is pretty cool. It was taken with sidescan sonar used to map the river bottom for fish habitat studies, and comes from a former colleague of my wife, who used to be involved in such work. This is also the person who was, behind the scene, instrumental in arranging for me to give this steamboat talk last year. The scientists in question were doing routine scanning work and were startled to see this steamboat framing appear on the river bottom! It's in a relatively protected area, and there appear to be plans to map it more thoroughly in the future. The long axis shown here measures about 40'.
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Steamboats and other rivercraft - general discussion
Cathead replied to Cathead's topic in Nautical/Naval History
One historic steamboat lost, another found I just learned that the historic Mary White II, a steamboat preserved at Jacksonport State Park, in Arkansas, sank in 2016 and is considered unrecoverable. I'd never made it down to see it and we were considering going down there this fall, but obviously hadn't kept up with the news since the loss was new to us. Here's a really nice article from Arkansas State Parks about the vessel, her various brushes with death, and the ultimate loss (read to the very end). https://www.arkansasstateparks.com/articles/mary-woods-no-2-life-river I also just learned from a friend who does research and mapping along the Missouri River that another steamboat wreck has been discovered. They asked me not to share any details yet as several government agencies are involved and they want to do things right, but hopefully soon I'll be able to share some imagery and details. What I have seen is pretty cool. Stay tuned!- 281 replies
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New to modeling - wish I found this site earlier
Cathead replied to flutlo6180's topic in New member Introductions
I often do this intentionally, deciding early on which is the test side and which is the display side, and working on the former first so I can iron out any issues before doing the side that will be seen. Welcome to MSW and I hope you have a great time learning and improving!
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