allanyed
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Everything posted by allanyed
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Is there a reason you did not taper the planks so they end at the rabbet? They were pretty much done as the ship planking and would be much easier to get in place. Chuck Passaro’s four part video on planking on You tube is a huge help. Allan -
I take that as a compliment but I rarely have the answers. I do have a decent library and enjoy doing the research though. When research fails my go to folks are mostly members here at MSW including Druxey, Ed Tosti, Mark Porter, and a host of other experts who have taught me so much over the years as they know far more than I do. Regarding belaying pins for British warships, James Lees gives 1745 as the approximate time belaying pins came into use in the RN. Did this apply to merchant ships such as the Mayflower? I would think that is the case, but maybe they were ahead of their time. Study photos of contemporary rigged models at RMG, Preble Hall and elsewhere and you will see the rigging terminating at rails, not pins on models made prior to 1745. Were there exceptions? Maybe, there was a lot of variation in the early days, especially in rigging. The below are a couple shots of early 18th century ship models (1705 and 1714) taken during a visit to Preble Hall. Allan
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Nice start on the construction Rick! From the second photo it looks there are belaying pins in the kit. The British did not use them on navy ships until about 1745 so, to me at least, it seems odd that they would be in use on the Mayflower more than 100 years earlier. 🤔 Allan
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It appears that the copper is covering both the area of the keel and false keel. There has been a good bit of discussion the past few days at https://modelshipworld.com/topic/36042-copper-plate-overlapping-1794-lower-overlaps-upper-or-vice-versa/ that some may find interesting that indicate the copper did not cover the false keel. Sketch below of the overlap &c. Allan
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Yep, gun ports and lids take some work as each is made of about 6 pieces of wood, 3 port lining pieces, hinges, nails, rings, rigging line, metal leads through the hull, all told, about 25 individual pieces to each. Plus there were ventilation ports with small lids on some of the gun port lids on the lower decks on later ships-of-the-line. Allan
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You may be right, but if it's sacrificial, why waste the copper? Also, there is no mention of coppering the false keel in the contracts mentioned in post #9, only that there is copper between the false keel and keel which is turned up. Still, all new for me so a good day!! Allan
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Very nice!!! You are a big step ahead of most, if not all kit designers and modelers. Allan,
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We are all here to help each other Paul, glad to be of at least a little help. Cheers Allan
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Just as a helpful hint for the future, with the exception of a drop strake, all strakes seat into the rabbet at the bow. They are usually tapered and never come to a point. If there is to be a drop plank it is snubbed on the end rather being pointed. (see below) Of course, if the hull is painted or coppered, this is not so noticeable. It is a shame that some, NOT all, kit makers completely fail in this area. Allan
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Paul, The link is https://modelshipworld.com/topic/3453-young-america-by-edt-finished-extreme-clipper-1853/#comment-96388 or you can go to the search box and type in Young America. Once you open it the rigging is far down in the topic (after page 100) Allan
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Sizzolo Thanks for the source. Now, I wonder if any modelers coppering the bottom will be reading this string of posts and show the false keel outside the sheathing on the keel itself. I read the paragraph just now and I do wonder what he means that the false keel was filled with small nails. Is it heavily nailed like hob nailed boot soles or something else? For our purposes these would not be seen anyway, but I am curious. Allan
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PaulRon I just looked at Ed Tosti's build log and he does go into detail about lines passing through fairleads in the tops and shrouds. Allan
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Paul Ron Have you studied Ed Tosti's Young America build log? Not sure, but it may be of some help to you. If not, his Young America 1853 Volume III on rigging probably will give some help to you. Allan
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FWIW, below is the overlap as drawn by Peter Goodwin in The Construction and Fitting of English Man of War, pp 225-26. He does show the plating overlap the strake above. Allan
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Did a little more digging and found the following in contracts for the Echo (1782) , Aurora (1776), and Astrea (1808) which I thought was very interesting. I do not recall ever seeing this on a model where the coppering is done on the keel before the false keel is secured to the bottom of the keel. It makes total sense as the false keel is sacrificial so why protect it as well as prevent it from doing its job. Allan As the Ship is to be partly coppered before the False Keel is put under, Care must be taken that there is Copper, as shall be directed, put all Fore and Aft between the Main and False Keels, properly turned up and fastened.
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It is indeed difficult to tell in the video, but the photo below of the Constitution bottom SEEMS to be shingled with upper over lower. Allan
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A very warm welcome to you Mark, very nice intro. Allan
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Dean, NUTS!! Going back a little over 50 years ago, had I known about this being a good wood to harvest I might have had 100 lifetimes supply (and would have happily sent you a few hundred board feet) when I sawed down an acre of the stuff then had the stumps backhoed out. Some went into piles of cordwood and the rest went into a dozen or more wood piles all over the lot and then burned to ash before building our house.. These were Crataegus pennsylvanica, known as the Pennsylvania thorn, which is a species of hawthorn but I have no idea if it has similar properties to the other species of hawthorn. These were all over western PA and most folks hated them because of the thorns and the little apples that dropped all over the yard. Live and learn...... Allan
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Nice tool that you made! That could work with stiff backed razors. (looks like maybe that is the actual type of blade in the holder) Allan
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Hi Ron, Your model is really looking good. I really like how all of your gratings correctly have a solid periphery that will lay against the head ledges and coamings. I realize it may be an incorrect kit instruction, but I believe the battens on the gratings always lay fore and aft. Some in the photos are running athwartships. Allan
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I love the old schooners as well as your build. Lovely work! Allan
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The cannon drawings look great. Just noticed that you have the George II cypher on the cannon for Endeavour. I may be wrong but as Endeavour was launched in 1764, wouldn't the cypher be for George III? Armstrong Frederick STL drawings may be getting posted in the near future with the George III cypher in the following: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/34442-3d-printing-cannons-in-resin/ There were recent discussions on the trucks having been made of single pieces so there were no bolts in them. There were many exceptions in ships so maybe some carpenter made truck assemblies rather than from single cylinders. https://modelshipworld.com/topic/34538-gun-carriage-questions/page/3/ Posts #66 and after. Allan
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Hi Andrew, From the first photo of post #186 the slight light gap in the black rim of the truck on the left looks like a black band of paper or blackened copper or brass rather than char to me, but that may just be me. Allan
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The iron on axles make total sense. Going to look to see when this practice started. Tx!!
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Hi David, Your work is truly well done, so this paragraph is meant only as a point of interest. When you have a few minutes, there was a lengthy discussion on trucks on the carriages. The conclusion SEEMS to be, based on contemporary sourced material, that trucks were not made in four pieces with bolts through them. https://modelshipworld.com/topic/34538-gun-carriage-questions/page/3/ It would be really interesting to know where Caldercraft came up with this idea of trucks made in pieces and iron rimmed, especially if they based it on contemporary sources. I never doubt that there were variations in many aspects of these ships of the past but after a lot of searching on this I have yet to find one picture of a relic or contemporary based drawing or written description that describes assembled trucks other than the use of iron bands on the rim on land based carriages. The iron would surely wear the deck planking and it would be far easier to replace a worn truck that had no iron rim than rip out the planking and replace it, Allan
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