Jaager

With at least one other French liner, the sill was curved, with a dip at the center. Here, this is a step rather than a groove. It probably has something to do with the heavy barrels of the large caliber main guns. I would probably do Le Fleuron lower deck sills as a curve rather than a step. I have no idea if these guns were ever traversed. Given their weight, it would take something like a substantial peavey. I suspect that the sill having an arc was a solution to something that was not a problem to begin with. As drawn, the open end grain at the step would increase the possibility of fungal rot.

Yup, it is highly probable that the cause of your problem is using an improper blade. A rip cut of relatively thick ply is best done using a blade with many fewer teeth with much deeper gullets. This will require the blade to be thicker. The kerf will be wider. If you tried this using the significantly more powerful Byrnes saw, the ply would probably be scorched along the cut and the blade getting hot enough to affect its tempered strength. The physics of it would be the same and the teeth would still not cut thru much of the wood. I guess that you could feed the ply slowly enough not to fill the gullets. It would be no fun atoll to take that long for a cut and be an example of false economy.

How many teeth per inch on your blade? Trying to cut a 1/8" sheet of ply with a slitting saw would have too many teeth in contact with the stock = prematurely filled gullets and increased friction. The ideal is something like 3 teeth in contact with the stock. That can vary on any single blade depending on how high the blade is raised and thus - the angle of attack.

Alan, Yes. I think that it is possible that the acidic pH could affect natural cellulose based rigging. By this, I mean linen and cotton. Titebond II is pH 3 and Titebond III is pH 2.5. In a wood to wood bond the volume and density of the cellulose should minimize any pH effect. Rigging line is neither dense nor high in volume. The lower pH could accelerate the adverse reactions with 02 and UV light over time. This possible problem is avoided by using pH 7 PVA. Bookbinders see a need for it to preserve paper, which is also cellulose. I take their hint to heart. As for beeswax, I think it is also acidic and also may have trace amounts of digestive enzymes. I think Renaissance Wax is a safer option. Except for PVA itself, I avoid any use of man made / synthetic materials, so I have no idea about the effects of pH on synthetic fibers. I suspect that like PE, it is possible that the original polymerization reaction that produced these fibers may continue at a low rate over time in the presence of 02 and UV. The increased cross linking would make it rigid and brittle and subject to being shattered under any stress.

Before you hang it under weight, wet it lightly using a cloth soaked with a ~50% solution or lower concentration of bookbinders glue - neutral pH PVA. It will stiffen the line, is archival quality, dries clear and if the amount used is not excessive, will not leave an outside coating. Woodworkers glue - white or yellow PVA is very acidic and the more water resistant the type the lower is its pH.

Randy, http://www.taubmansonline.com/ plans Historic ship plans Red Jacket The parent is Loyalhanna Dockyard. As far as I know William Crothers was Sea Gull plans and he developed all of them. If you have CD 1 of NRJ you can see the add for Sea Gull Plans as he was an advertiser.

These should not yellow, although I will probably go thru a couple of packs to obtain the skill necessary to get the shape right in breaking this thin fragile glass to size.

Controlling any yardarm is quite easy. The yardarm is the very end of a large yard. It is usually a smaller diameter than the yard it is a part of and there is a right angle surface at the transition. It allows for a secure attachment for the rigging/blocks that control the angle of the yard. I think I have seen drawings of possible temporary jury rigs for a broken mast in rigging books.

I just flashed on this: there are razor saws that are thin enough and with a large number of teeth and minimal set. With a carbide cutoff wheel, a blade might be reshaped into a dagger conformation and do the job. It would be messy to cut and kinda ugly, but it may do. example = Zona 35-050 Ultra Thin Razor Saw, 52 TPI.008-Inch Kerf, Blade Length 4-1/2-Inch It would cost you $12 and some time to find out.

Ed, Before I left 3DCG and returned to wood, I had Blender on my look into list, being free. It has polygon and NURBS modelers. I do not see any purpose in adding a program like CAD into your process. I suspect that CAD has a steeper learning curve for modeling. I am betting that any additional precision that CAD offers will be lost when translated into something that Blender uses. The rendering and lighting will be a whole nuther thing. I suspect that actual physical modeling may be a faster process, especially if a wood model does not involve the hidden innards.

The Porpoise has been around for a few years and I have not noticed a problem yet. I do not use AC and Norfolk gets humid in the summer, no humidifier on my HV, so the winter is dry. I have no compass timbers, but I try to come close in grain orientation. I use heavy clamping pressure, so the hull is essentially one solid piece. I make sure of complete surface coverage with PVA. I used scantlings for the molded dimension that are those of the prototype. The relatively thin thickness is the same as POF. The small volume should not be able to exert all that much hydrostatic pressure anyway. A solid carved hull, hollowed out carved hull, or POB with thick filling pieces should generate much more of a problem. It remains to be seen what planking will do, but POB with a solid fill would face the same stresses, if not worse.. POB with planking just attached to plywood end grain should be more likely to fail. End grain bonding is no bond at all. I was indoctrinated old school belt and suspenders, just not for frame timbers. Dowels at the timber butts would not affect any humidity effects and PVA is stronger than lignin. I am likely going to use bamboo and brass to secure my planks. I will probably use hitch clocks to clamp where I can. I just do not look forward to the additional step of having to use a pattern guide to site the holes. Hydrostatic pressure is not infinite. If the forces resisting movement and swelling are strong enough, the atmospheric water molecules will just not get into the wood. It is a balance.

Mark, I completely agree. Following the Dutch methods as they evolved shell first to frame first construction shows how the framing style evolved. The timber ventilation problem could have been somewhat abated by using 1"-2" chocks to produce a space. I have seen RN plans where the bends had a gap. But it is not something I would care to replicate in a model. There is another possible reason that the overlapping floor and first futtock style was abandoned. In investigating framing Le Saint Philippe using the Navy Board pattern, I found that both the floor timbers and the first futtocks would have been impossibly long. The arc that each described would require that the stock be unrealistically wide. Oaks do not generally have 15-20 foot diameter trunks. (The monograph shows a modern framing style using bends. I suspect she was an experiment. But, in an attempt to solve a strength problem that did not require a solution, the designer doomed the ship to accelerated fungal rot. The timbers did not just meet at the mid line, there is an alternating table joint.)

Ummm..... did not the guys who essentially started all this in the 17th C. often build models with exposed frames, with framing that was highly stylized ? It all comes down to what is your purpose for a particular build. It may be satisfying to produce an academic model, but the museums that would appreciate the effort do not seem to be very interested in models. A fictional Lexington would be a poor choice in any instance. An obviously stylized POF effort using a plans documented subject, should not confuse a distant future historian. I see no problem with duplicating what is known and filling in the blanks with what is probable based on available evidence and adding a bit of art as regards the framing. The open framing of an actual ship was likely very ugly and irregular. About Davis, to repeat myself, I think he represented a building method that was heavily influenced by the methods needed for iron and steel hulls. The chain of knowledge for all wood construction of master to apprentice was broken about 1860. The old methods were lost.

I use 9x11 sheet sandpaper. Use the disk as a template for a knife. Coat the disk and the back of the paper with rubber cement. I use Besttest, but Elmer's should do. It holds just fine and rubs off the disk with your thumb when a new disk is needed. The rubber cement precludes using 10X sandpaper. The 10X has a no-slip coating that is not compatible with rubber cement. The 3X paper is plain paper. There is a cloth backed that comes in 5" wide rolls from Klingspor. My local Woodcraft sells it by the foot - I think the 5 1/8" may be part of their stock. It is a bit more robust than I need.

The sandwich at the bow is only two frames and aft sandwich is four frames. I decided to add V-IV and XIV-XIII to the hull as single units. The last three sandwiches at either end will be combined and shaped before addition to the hull. The slope and bevel will be easier to work as smaller units and they do not make the sections too long to fit my frame clamp. Sandwich V-IV and sandwich XIV-XIII shaped. Sandwich V-IV and sandwich XIV-XIII added to hull. The hull XIV-IV before shaping the joins. The fore three sandwiches shaped. Still separate units The aft three sandwiches shaped. Still separate units The hull XIV-IV shaped. Section IV-I shaped. Section IV-I bonded to hull. Section AP-XIV shaped. The complete hull. The hawse timbers, the stern framing, and the deadwood skeg have to be added. They will be produced and added using existing methods. La Renommee is now at the same stage as the brig USS Porpoise and the schooner USS Flying Fish. All three are the same 1:60 scale. La Renommee is small when beside the 118 gun Le Commerce de Marseille also 1:60. I have yet to solve the problem caused by the way I framed and assembled the frames for Marseille. I am still intimidated by the size of this first rate. This is the end of stage one. I have taken this to the end of the part that the Station Sandwich Method in hull assembly. I have about decided to leave La Renommee on the stocks for a while and begin a new log demonstrating true POF framing done using my method. It will probably be L'Egyptienne also at 1:60. The timber patterns are done. I need to prepare the framing stock. I am also giving serious consideration to doing an in depth exposition of my lofting method.

I have been collecting data for a while. My attitude towards this is - close enough is good enough - I will take a sword to this Gordian Knot rather than let usually insignificant detail deter me from undertaking a project. The material in question is wood. There are limitations on strength vs load and the dimensions needed to obtain that strength that have not changed. Unless you are building a cross section model, it is very difficult to see minor differences in moulded dimensions. Sided dimensions - in the usual situation where the numbers are not available, I use tables of scantlings that as close in time as I can get. If you have room and space (R&S) - those are the outside limits. This usually a bend (two frames) and the open area to the next bend. The scantlings usually give you the sided dimension for a frame. R&S minus 2xframe = space. Worst comes to worst and you do not have R&S, the distance between stations is an integral of R&S. That integral varies with the style of the designer of the vessel. I have seen that integral go from R&S x 2 to R&S x 8. (HIC copied what the original draftsman provided and I feel that the original draftsman for USS Falmouth was lazy. For the plans for that ship, the stations are too widely spaced.) 1670 - DEANE'S DOCTRINE OF NAVAL ARCHITECTURE 18th C. Yedlinsky's collection - Mungo Murray 19th C. Richard Meade's Treatise American Bureau of Shipping Rules I have 1870, 1885, 1903 John Griffiths Ship-Builder's Manual

I decided to assemble the sandwich groups for the rest of the hull before shaping any of the remaining sandwiches. The fore section. The aft section. Sandwich III-II Because of the extreme slope of the bow this sandwich has more wood that needs to be removed than will remain. The reduction of the beam reduces the open area and the surface is more of a challenge to get at. The aft section rough shaped - 60 grit. The fore section rough shaped - 60 grit.

An efficient way would be to scab on pieces of wood veneer and sand it to shape. A question that I have from time to time = If it is a first layer of planking on a POB built and the gaps being filled are between planks, Why even use a filler? The real planking will cover the gaps. If there is a significant hollow, the molds being too widely spaced, scabbing wood there would provide a more secure surface for the real planks.

This is for sandwich XIV-XIII. As the ends of the hull are approached, the bevel becomes more pronounced. The amount of wood is greater. I find that the waste is greater than the actual frame wood volume. As the lengths of the butts between timbers becomes longer I find that closer tolerances are needed. This has no effect on stage 1 bend assembly, where pairs of overlapping timbers are boned. When the bends are assembled, I need more clamping pressure to make sure there are no gaps at the midline of a bend. I need to use padded "C" clamps to get that force. The 4 bends for XIV-XIII are now ready to be glued up. XIV-XIII and XV-XIV sandwiches are ready for shaping. I decided I need to idiot proof the identification of the wood to be removed.

To confuse the situation, digital calipers and electronic calculators allow the choice of scale that is not limited to integrals of the Imperial scale. Facing your same dilemma, I looked at the model as a 3D object. I also like the level of detail possible with museum scale (1:48). I also wish to have my "fleet" all at the same scale. Ships of the line tend to of an imposing size at 1:48. I did some back of the envelope calculations, using 1:48 as the baseline. 1:60 = 50% of the volume 1:70 = 33% 1:76 = 25% 1:96 = 12.5% I chose 1:60 in the hope that the level of detail would be close, with a less imposing size. I framed the 118 gun Le Commerce de Marseille wishing to do both proof of concept for my method and see the size. I admit, the size still has me a bit addlepated.

Bob, The super peachy keen aspect of the video loop was the digital readout. If only there was a way to get that for the Byrnes saw.... the physical scratches on the micrometer defeat my eyes.

I looked into Madrone as a framing wood. I am on the wrong side of the continent for the cost to be reasonable - the shipping cost is absurd. I found a source that has solved the drying problem and uses kiln settings that produces usable timber: Sustainable Northwest Wood If I lived near Portland OR I would pay them a visit and pick over their stock for the color and grain. They have 4x4 and 8x4 by 8' on hand. They sell it for flooring and furniture use. The Wood Database information for Madrone reads like it would be excellent for hull fabrication.

Worst comes to worst, Historic Ship Models, Mondfeld has a fine print page and a half of Italian to English (Spanish, French, German) at the back. This should cover most all the parts and the book is nice to have.

To stir this pot a bit more and endanger the tongues poking in cheeks a bit more: Ductile (can be drawn into wires) , one of the characteristics of a metal, = something I had to memorize for some early science class and got stuck in my head ever since. A jewelers draw plate is a way to do it. I am imagining that a commercial mill heats the metal a bit when doing this. Doing it cold is a whole lot of work, Theoretically, one could start with a thick wire and draw any gauge that is needed. Cooper and brass kinda offer resistance to this, making it not so much fun. Jim's plate is not designed to draw metal. I have Jim's plate and a couple of jewelers plates. The tools that I use most often are a couple of drill gauges: I can sharpen the cutting edge by rubbing the side opposite the lettering on a whetstone. A significant factor is the species of bamboo that the skewer people use. Some of it is really hard, some is soft, and some like to split under stress.

After a couple of days for the Titebond II to set the bond, it is time to fair the three bonding seams. I bought a flexible shaft originally to shape and fair the inside of the hull. It turns out that it is too large for that. The MM right angle disk sander is powerful enough and small enough to do the job. The flexible shaft does allow me to use sanding drums to fair the outside of the now large hull. I can power it using my sanding table. A Jacobs chuck adapted to the 1/2" motor shaft drives the flex shaft. The half of the hull that is the middle is now made fair and ready for the bow quarter section and stern quarter section, Done on 12/13/19.