Stockholm tar
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Eamonn, Good call on the better arrangement for the anchor cables, with them running down through squared holes in the fore end of the hatch. I'm sure that's the way it was done at this period. Look forward to seeing more pictures. This is going to be one smart-looking vessel.
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Eamonn, Your timber heads look good, although I have to say that I was a little surprised that the fore pinrails are so far towards the bow. Are there any swivels fore or aft? Your mention of fitting the rudder prompts me to suggest planking it – or do you have that in mind already? As you probably know, I planked my Sherbourne rudder – using three of the of the thin maple planks from the kit, and it certainly looks more authentic than one flat board. I used black paper for the hinges, as I thought metal would be overscale. Re. the treenailing, I'm with Nigel. I think you're too far advanced to try anything drastic now, but testing various methods off the model probably wouldn't hurt, such as trying different sorts of pencil, etc., but I would actually leave it at this stage, as Nigel suggests. I didn't use treenailing on the Sherbourne, and quite honestly, I don't miss it.
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Eamonn, Just catching up with your log again, and see you've made a very good job of your deck. Well done. BE is right of course, as those things that shout at you as being not quite right now, will blend into semi-obscurity once all the deck fittings, etc., are in place.
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Setting flags - which way does the wind blow?
Stockholm tar replied to rodgerdodger's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
You have to remember though that the Pride of Baltimore is a predominantly fore-and-aft rigged vessel, and carries only one small square topsail. If the fore-and-aft rigged fore and main sails were set on the same plain as the topsail, when going to windward, she would probably get no power from the wind at all or very little - which somehow defeats the object. You mention the cutting away of one half of the square sail, and the spar becoming a 'boom'. In fact something very like this did happen - but not with a square sail, and not with a boom. During the Mediaval period, the loose-footed lateen sail became the norm on the mizzen mast of most European ships, which was adopted when their seamen came into contact with lateen-rigged arab craft in the Mediterranean, somewhere around the fourteen hundreds. They noted how efficient they were in going to windward, but were cumbersome in operation. Eventually, towards the end of the 18th century, the sail forward of the mast was removed, resulting in the gaff sail as we know it today. The lateen yard remained for a little longer (I believe the Victory for instance retained hers until around 1796), mainly I think because of its usefulness in replacing other damaged spars. However that too disappeared, resulting in the gaff, to which a boom was added. Square rig actually has significant advantages over fore-and-aft, particularly in ocean sailing, where the winds are predominantly from aft, and which is why it has lasted for so long and is still the favoured rig. The Portuguese could quickly adapt the rig of their ships between the two when occasion demanded. Fore-and-aft rig is useful for coastal sailing where winds are usually more variable. Square rig is also safer on downwind passages, and it is on record that the crews of the large barquentines, with their enormous boomed out fore-and-aft sails, were petrified they would be dismasted if the wind got on the wrong side of the sail. This did happen on occasion. Come to think of it, I've often though that modern ocean racing yachts have the wrong sort of rig for the winds – they should be square rigged! I wonder if that's why they too are often dismasted. However I side track... -
Spanish flag flown at the Battle of Trafalgar
Stockholm tar replied to JerseyCity Frankie's topic in Nautical/Naval History
Frankie, This is the ensign from the Spanish ship San Ildefonso which, rather than being flown over St Paul's during Lord Nelson's funeral, was hung from one of the interior balconies. It is to the left in this painting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NelsonTomb.jpg Following the battle, during which she was captured, the ship was sailed to Gibraltar and subsequently taken into the RN, as HMS Ildefonso. She was scrapped in 1816. The photo was taken at the National Maritime Museum, Greenwich, where it is part of the flag collection. I think this must be during one of its periodic inspections by the conservation staff. The place looks to be the upper mezzonine floor of the Neptune Hall – probably the only space large enough to unroll it completely. -
Patrick, Yes, I had thought of that too.
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Lukas, It looks like you are doing a good job on her, and it looks like she's going to be even better, but I do have to query somewhat the statement made in your title – that Le Superbe is 'first ship of the line ever built'. Are they your words of those from Heller? My guess is the latter, perhaps as a selling point. Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. I believe the 'ship of the line' as a type came into existence approximately 100 years before Le Superbe, during the English wars with the Dutch, and when the idea of 'the line' was formulated.
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Jan, Indeed we are, and I hope all is well with you. All the best.
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Nigel, It's also the cat's whiskers – let alone his pyjamas!
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Tony, Nice work. The comparison photos clearly show the difference between them. Hmm, so that's why two of my guns didn't fit through the ports!
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Gregor, Your machine certainly looks the business. I like the idea of a rod to hold the spool of thread.
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Harlequin, Amen to your first post. Regarding your latest, a good call on the decision of the coxswain – he would have known how devastating it would be, to lose more than one member of the same family. When I lived in the UK, and worked in the local museum, the RNLI collecting box was always regularly filled, and just as regularly emptied by one of their employees. Being a voluntary organisation, they need all the help they can get. Brave men indeed.
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I agree with the previous replies that falls for gun tackles would not normally be coiled, or 'cheesed' as it's sometimes known, in normal use. This would only have been done for a brief period during inspections, etc. The reasons have been mentioned above. Btw to achieve this the 'cheese' was started from the end, working back to the gun, until all the rope was taken up. It was normally coiled in the direction of the lay of the rope. In the case of exposed guns on the weather deck, the tackles may have been removed or, if used for securing the gun, would probably have been covered. As has been mentioned, hemp rope coils – from the gun tackles to all other lines – were not usually left lying on deck, due to the fact that they get wet or damp, which causes rot. The proper place for them is hanging from a belaying pin, where the air can circulate and so dry them. Even when a deck has been wet and dried out, you can be sure that damp will remain under any coils that happen to be lying there. I think this is a point modelmakers have to bear in mind. Ok, it might look good to have coils everywhere, but I don't think it would have been so in reality.
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This particular Battle of the Dogger Bank (there have been several, the most famous taking place in 1915) was actually fought in 1781 (which I presume is what you meant), between a British convoy under Sir Hyde Parker, and a Dutch convoy. Parker sent his convoy home, whilst he set about the Dutch with the escorting warships. The Dutch appeared to be considerably disorganised, and Parker won the engagement due to his superiority and discipline – despite many of his ships being in disrepair. I believe he resigned on returning home, due to the condition of his ships. I am surmising that the painting show this latter fact, and that they are indeed hammocks to protect the weak deadeyes. I don't know who painted it but it was most likely commissioned, perhaps by officers who were there, and the artists would have been prompted to get the details right. I have not seen this before in any other painting.
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Greg, Very sorry this has happened to you and your model, she looked really good – and she can again. I'd go with the last two suggestions, cut out the damaged planking and replace. It shouldnt be to difficult to fix, and before long you'll be back where you were. Re. the cat, don't be too hard on her, after all cats are curious by nature – and she doesn't know it's a prized model ship, not to be played with. We have four, and if some accident happens (luckily nothing has happened yet modelwise) I tend to blame myself for not thinking about how to avoid the problem in the first place – and store it for future reference!
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Bulkhead posts
Stockholm tar replied to Guybrarian's topic in Building, Framing, Planking and plating a ships hull and deck
Guy, I think you should probably have removed the frame tops somewhat earlier, and before you were at this stage. However, all may not be lost, as you still might be able to do so. If you are thinking of removing them, I would suggest you don't add any more deck planking – and you might even consider removing some of the outer planks, for easier access. With care and a steady hand, you might be able to get a Dremel in there with a cutting wheel attachment – but as I said be very careful! I wouldn't want you to cut anything else! Tidy up the stumps with sandpaper. I think I would lay the model first on one side, then the other, with support. If you think it's safer to leave them, then plank between them as Mark suggests. Btw, the model frames are usually no indication of those on the original vessel – where there are normally considerably more. -
Hi Mike, Impressive indeed – a fitting display case for a great model. Btw, I hope your hand is healing well.
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Eamonn, Good job. Now, there's no help for it... its on to the er... you know what – after you've lain down for the week of course.
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Tony, Well, as you know, we do try to please on this forum... You can always do what I think I might do, which is to beef up the lanyard a bit.
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Gregor, 'Scary' is the right word! I had also thought of doing this, although it's rather too late I'm afraid in my case. I was somewhat surprised that the forestay deadeye had the same number of holes as those for the shrouds, when subsequent research suggests there were five. However, as I said, it would seem rather late for me to do this, as access would be difficult for a saw – and there are now too many things in place to cut. I think I'll have to play safe and leave well alone! I note however that the lanyard can be fastened in different places. The lanyard of the Alert is, apparently made fast to the apron at the stem, as it would appear is that of the Hawke. The lanyard of the 1785 cutter is however made fast to the forestay, similar to the shrouds.
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Geoff, It might also be worth pointing out that the cable was not normally fastened to the anchor ring with a knot, as kit manufacturers would often have us believe. The cable was much too thick for that. The answer was to use a cable 'clinch', where the cable was passed through the ring and turned back on itself, in a bight or form of half hitch, and seized. You can see this on the Victory today: https://www.google.se/search?q=victory+anchor+%2B+photo&client=firefox-a&hs=w8q&rls=org.mozilla:sv-SE:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&imgil=r_S2dMFo0lMLuM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcQWt0eYEsjkkeCbd1hgYWCfmPOmO--qrdhNakuLVWEg-vqUbmhLVw%253B744%253B558%253BjdAQZI-W4D3zHM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.maritimequest.com%25252Fwarship_directory%25252Fgreat_britain%25252Fpages%25252Fships_of_the_line%25252Fhms_victory_alex_cap_collection_page_2.htm&source=iu&usg=__6TWsMi7IAfDp0ErmaZGXGM2TZ7A%3D&sa=X&ei=bd5UU8iAGuTnygOc3oLoCg&ved=0CDgQ9QEwBA#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=r_S2dMFo0lMLuM%253A%3BjdAQZI-W4D3zHM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.maritimequest.com%252Fwarship_directory%252Fgreat_britain%252Fphotos%252Fships_of_the_line%252Fvictory%252F2008_07_22_alex_cap_f.JPG%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.maritimequest.com%252Fwarship_directory%252Fgreat_britain%252Fpages%252Fships_of_the_line%252Fhms_victory_alex_cap_collection_page_2.htm%3B744%3B558
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Gregor, It will be interesting to see how your Sherbourne progresses, with her modernised rig. She looks good so far. I had originally had the same idea but, when reading about it, I discovered historically that's how the rig was at that period – and decided to retain it, as a feature. I had also originally surmised that her 'captain' might have had her re-rigged at the tail end of her life, but then thought how likely was that, seeing her demise was around 1784 – just about the time the new rig was being adopted? However, I think your rig will look good too – and you would seem to have a few more references for it. Btw, good idea re. the wheel at the mast head – is it a coincidence they are both called trucks?
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Eamonn, That's actually derived from 'Sems Legit' – another well-known Roman expression, or in this case order, and meaning for a legion to march at double time.
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Eamonn, Never mind. Easter will soon be over, and then... In the meantime have a good one.
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