Doreltomin

Hello dear friend Doris, Thank you for the links to the Czech forum, that is very interesting, when I will arrive that far I will "borrow" your techniques too! Actually I believe "paper model" is not quite right to say in your case. The ultra-orthodox so to say paper modellers do make everything in paper, starting with the hull and ending with the masts, spars and so on. Yours approach is very different, you do the hull in paper, but then the 3D pieces are done in different media according to the required shape and look. I believe "Mixed media" would be more appropriate for your technique. You are as always a true inspiration for me, I only hope to be able some day to model something at least half as beautiful as yours! Best wishes, Dorin

Kiwiron, please follow the rules of this game: 1) only the person which finds the correct answer can post the next quiz. 2) You cannot post a picture of a ship of which you don't know precisely which is what 3) And, by the way, your mystery ship is the Russian Cruiser Aurora, now a museum ship in Sankt Petersburg. @ Dave: so, is it right, your mystery ship is the Royal Charles, former Naseby, took by the Dutch at Medway? If yes, that's a very nice picture.. I hadn't had that!

Hi Dave, Just found your excellent thread! Your little wonder is impressive even by itself... not to say it will be put inside a bottle! Good luck with your build.. hope it will squeeze through the bottleneck!

Hello DFellingham, Congratulations, you hit it right in the middle from the first shot! She is indeed the armoured corvette built by Stabilimento Technico Triestino, San Rocco, Yard number 51/ 1868. As with the name, there is indeed a big problem here which still makes the historians argue after so many years, because back in the 19th century the Turkish used the Arabic alphabet and at the beginning of the 20th century they switched to the Latin alphabet, and some of the names are at best only partially transliterated from Turkish. Here: http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Da%C4%9F%C4%B1lma_d%C3%B6nemi_Osmanl%C4%B1_donanmas%C4%B1 you can see the Wikipedia page in Turkish which writes the name using the Turkish rules like that: İclâliye. It is indeed the same name which transliterated to English would have to be written Idjalieh. Excellent job, your turn!

Haha, not that bad Jan! In fact, you should know about me two things: first, I am an architect, so knowing the style of a building from the first glance is a professional thing. Secondly, incidentally I have had a post graduate course in your lovely "small country fit for frogs" and I have travelled extensively in many major cities around the Netherlands, so it was not so difficult for me to recognize, if not exactly Flushing in your picture, at least the Dutch environment. Then it was a piece of cake to google for the history of your first submarines. Not to mention how much I love your culture, your "golden century" and your wonderful Dutch ships. Thank you very much again for unveiling me another fact of your history, this time about your submarines. I believe this is the best part out of this game: Seeing/showing a picture, trying to find what it is, then at the end reading a little excerpt of the history of a a certain ship. So this being said, It seems It is time to put in the next mystery picture. Of course, at the beginning I have tampered with the flag, otherwise it would have been too easy. Good luck and have a nice Sunday!

@ Louie, thank you very much for the tip... very interesting link and photos! @ Woodrat: you are right about the Mataro being much tampered with. Louie is right that other cited sources are very useful as well. And one last point, which is a bit tricky because you should have thought of it earlier: Have you considered putting a MIRROR instead of the plank on which the half model is put? In such a way the model would look complete from any angle! Of course since the plane of the cut isn't now made exactly in the middle but a bit before that, you must "shave" everything to the exact middle and make not a full round mast, but just half of it. A bit tricky but I believe it would worth the trouble!

Thanks Jan... Not so good in submarines, however the background looks distinctively Dutch so may I try: O1?

Sorry Captain, that was not a Russian but a French ship. Congratulations Jan! You are perfectly right, see the attached nameplate. That's indeed the Kabyle, "torpilleur de haute mer" of the Type Agile, built by the same Chantiers et Forges de la Mediteranee, la Seyne in 1892 and scrapped in 1911 in Toulon. Your turn!

Hello Jan, seems it's time for a hint: perhaps it's not incidental that the previous was built in France and this one is French too. Maybe there's a link between them

Well done Dick, excellent point with the frames seen between the wales! Good luck with the rigging and don't be afraid, it is actually simpler than in the 17th century, only you have to do it the way it was done at the time... you can take the Mataro ship as an example. The blocks for instance are different. Will follow you with interest!

Hi Druxey and Woodrat, Thanks for asking precisely the question I was about to put myself! These ships are indeed truly confusing and without having at least one real example under our nose all this discussion may remain just pure speculation. However, it is very interesting that your model makes us put such good questions and trying find the correct answer. As one friend here on the MSW puts it so nicely, it's not only the model itself, it's mainly the knowledge we gain when building it!

Hello Jan, Happy New Year 2014! As for the old bridge in the harbour of Marseille, I would quote a character from a famous cartoon movie (to name it, Tom & Jerrie) saying "Touche, Pussy Cat!"

Thank you, Captain! So here's the next quiz: Which ship is this one in the foreground? Please note that for the beginning, to make it fair, I have tampered with the nameplate.

Hi Woodrat, I'm glad to see your topic here again... your carrack was truly inspiring, thank you for your pictures. Wish you all the best for this New Year 2014!

Hello Doris, May this New Year 2014 bring you good health, and happiness, and joy, and whatever you wished for 2013 and it did not show off true, let it show this year! Best wishes and keep us posted with your stunning work! For me, your models are truly inspiring... please keep the pictures coming! Warm regards from the Black Sea shoreline, Dorin.

Armoured cruiser Bayan, built by Forges et Chantiers de la Mediteranee, la Seyne, 1900?

You can bet it's Sagres, she is the only ship among her sisters with red crosses on the sails. One more word about the Romanian Training Ship Mircea. It is actually Mircea II to tell her apart of the first training brig with the same name which was built in 1881 by Thames Iron Works, Orchard Yard, Blackwall, and was lost due to bombing during WW2.

Hello, Interesting subject and interesting question. However, have you thought, as our friend Nenad has put it previously, that masting and rigging was the "top technology" of the last centuries, perfectly comparable with today's building of the Space Shuttle or computer technology? It's certainly an area so vast that you can't embrace all... you have to focus on certain points and areas of interest. Is it early ages? it it 17th... 18th or 19th century? There may be a "best answer" for each century and subject, depending on what's on your mind. Sometimes there is an entire book "definitive" on a ship only. Sometimes there's a definitive book for an entire era as is certainly the case for "1600-1720 The rigging of the ships in the days of the spritsail topmast" by R.C. Anderson.

Hi Michael, Thank you.. very interesting and helpful hint! Would you mind to tell also what you use to heat the material to cherry red? An open fire is enough for that or you need also some kind of blower to heat the fire up?

Hello Sailor, While building a cross section of a composite at a bigger scale to demonstrate the technique would be both feasable and interesting, I believe doing a model of an entire ship in composite build largely exceeds the possibilities of an average modeller. Also, it is worth saying I would not believe such an extreme approach would actually "pay off" in modeller terms. You also have to know that composite built is a bit more complex than just putting a layer of wooden strakes over a structure of iron frames. What you miss from the picture is the strong electrolytic reaction which occurs between iron and English oak in presence of salt water. Therefore, I don't know exactly how was Cutty Sark made but I have found the original papers of the training ship Mircea in the Romanian Archives and I can tell you how was this ship made. The builder was Thames Iron Works at Orchard Yard, Blackwall, which is east of London on the Thames and the year was 1882. Just to make yourself an idea, they first make the frames using iron angles, then they do the inner layer of planks which are bolted with iron bolts to the frames; the bolts are driven from outside with heads placed in recesses made into the wood and the nuts are put inside. Then they do the outer layer of planks over it which are fixed on the first layer with copper clench bolts. The inner layer of planks is teak, the outer canadian rock elm or english oak, and great care is taken that no iron piece ever touches the oak. If there is no other possibility, they put a plank of teak between them to protect the iron. All the iron work is protected with red lead and between the first and the second layer of planking they may have put a continuous layer of tarred horse hair tissue. Now, do you really believe a modeller could do all this stuff to his scale model without getting crazy?

Hello Vivian, I am glad to greet another lover of medioeval ships, and a lady too! While it is true that you ladies are not so numerous to represent this wonderful hobby of ship model building, it is certainly true with respect of quality of the job. Some of the best models I ever saw were made by female modellers. So, good luck with your build and show us how a Portuguese caravel looked five hundred years ago! There are some wonderful portuguese sources to help you. In fact, the best books on shipbuilding of the period which we have today are portuguese. As an example, just take a quick net search for "Fabrica de naus" written by father Fernando de Oliveira back in 1580. Also, you may do a search for a ship called "Nostra senhora dos martires" also known as "The Pepper wreck" for inspiration. And as a welcome gift for you, if you like medioeval ships, take a few moments to look at this wonderful movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZPJhEZR-Gg Best wishes!

Sails set = yards raised. Sails furled = yards lowered. That's a rule. With all the sails set and going at full speed with the wind the stability of the ship increases in the same way as a bicycle keeps its upright position while on movement. This overrides the downside effect of the heavy weight of the yards set up on the masts. Otherwise, with sails furled, each heavy piece would be put as lower as possible. Preparing for heavy seas, the sailors not only would set the yards in the "lower" position, they would sometimes take them down completely. Preparing for very dangerous passages like rounding the Cap Horn, they would even take down the upper segments of the masts! All was done to ease the tops of the ship, otherwise she would become dangerously "top heavy"... a thing which was awfully right for the unfortunate Vasa! The photo on the box is just a mistake, it really shouldn't be a guide.

Hello Kimberley, First of everything, congratulation on your purchase of the Heller kit. I know it may look small and it may dissapoint you at the first glance, but the size definitely does not matter in shipmodelling. There are or were some modellers which did real works of art with models even smaller than that. Just do a quick search on the net to see what you find if you search images for "Donald McNarry". His favourite scale was 1:192! Secondly, you should take your kit just as a starting point, not as a definitive thing. The instructions which they give are just basic, or even beyond that. If you leave it just at the basic level of the instructions, you will come up with something very toy-like. But you can transform the thing which you have into something much more interesting. Just take a look at these pictures here: http://www.maritima-et-mechanika.org/maritime/texel/texel.html All the ships which you see here are made in resin by Artitec. Their scale is said on this site to be 1:90 (in fact, I believe the real scale is 1:87) which is even smaller than yours 1:75. But just take your time to look on HOW they did the things: they painted the resin to look like real wood! This is the best trick. You will not have to contend yourself with painting it with colour this and that as they say; it will not look like real wood. You will have to learn how to make plastic to look like wood, and the Artitec site is a very good "teacher" for that. Then, you must become "independent" of the basic colours which you now only have: it means that, apart of the paints which you already have, would also need some other colours. You will need to buy at least flask of white, another of black, then three more flasks of the basic colours: blue, yellow, red. A bottle of thinner and one of acetone to wash your brushes would also be of good use. If you have that, then you can mix them together and you can get all the colours you want. You can mix them in some empty small bottles or flasks which you have but also, for a small amount of paint, you can also mix them directly on a piece of cardboard. As an example, for brown you can mix yellow and red, which will come out orange, then you will add black until it comes the brown which you want. The next trick is: the painting should be done in layers. First a general layer is done, then you will have to paint each plank individually with a different nuance. Look at how wood changes colour as it ages in the real world and try replicate it. If you ever fancied trying art painting, it's almost the same thing, only here it's applied on plastic instead of the regular canvas. Yes.. shipmodelling is not just a pastime, it's an art! Express yourself like an Artist... Best wishes and good luck with your build!

Hello Dan, That's certainly a fascinating project! In fact, we are here on no firm ground with such early ships. We have certain bits of information on ships prior of 1700, but nothing is certain with them. However, this only makes such a subject more challenging and interesting. Turning these little bits and pieces which you know of the subject into a coherent picture is not just a technical job, it's firstly a work of art. I particularly like your way of building the hull, haven't seen such system yet, so will follow that with much interest. Good luck with your work!

Excellent thread, thank you for your building tips, Paragraf. Although technically your Victory is a paper model, in fact your tips are certainly good for wooden modelling too. Will follow your build with much interest! Cheers!