cog Posted May 25, 2020 Share #1201 Posted May 25, 2020 Thank you , Steven. Interesting context it has. Besides scuttlebud - or as Pat prefers water cooler - it can be "an erroneous or improbable story that is claimed to be factual". At first I only thought about the container, but you downundah have your way with words Sorry for derailing your thread ... yet again Baker, Louie da fly, EJ_L and 1 other 4 Quote Carl "Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson Search and you might find a log ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted June 3, 2020 Author Share #1202 Posted June 3, 2020 I thought I'd share with you the process of carving one of these oarsmen. I used a craft knife with a No. 11 blade. Checking against an existing oarsman to get the size of the head right. Putting the eyes in - unfortunately you only get one chance to get it right and this one's eyes aren't exactly the way I wanted them - he looks a little ghoulish. Still, I'm willing to accept this as the focus is supposed to be on the ship, not the oarsmen. Final touch-up and paint should make him look a little more human. , And finished ready for sanding and adding his arms, which I have left till last so I can get their position right in relation to the oar. To give you some idea of time-scale, I carved the head and face while I was listening to Bizet's l'Arlesienne suite (30-45 minutes) and the body while listening to the Beatles Abbey Road (about the same amount of time). So maybe one and a half hours in all. But it's very hard on the hands - I can only do one or at the most two in a day and then I need a rest to recover . . . But the good news is that this was No. 41 of 48 - only 7 to go! Steven Siggi52, BANYAN, usedtosail and 9 others 12 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted June 3, 2020 Share #1203 Posted June 3, 2020 Would it be easier on your hands to carve the oarsman on the end of a stick of wood that you can hold or clamp? Then cut him off when nearly done. EJ_L, mtaylor and cog 3 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted June 3, 2020 Author Share #1204 Posted June 3, 2020 I have done that in the past, Druxey, and it does work better. But I had only a limited supply of pear wood so I squoze as many figures into the wood I had as I could. Fortunately I'm nearing the end and I'll be able to stop soon Steven cog, mtaylor, druxey and 1 other 4 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted June 3, 2020 Author Share #1205 Posted June 3, 2020 By the way does anyone else think this guy looks a little like Hannibal Lecter? Steven BANYAN, cog, mtaylor and 5 others 8 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cog Posted June 3, 2020 Share #1206 Posted June 3, 2020 Yes, especially his nose (and feet ) derailing ...? Louie da fly, EJ_L and mtaylor 3 Quote Carl "Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson Search and you might find a log ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted June 4, 2020 Share #1207 Posted June 4, 2020 So that's what Hannibal has been up to... he's an oarsman. Restricted diet I hope... like non-human. cog, EJ_L and Louie da fly 3 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share #1208 Posted June 4, 2020 I was going to add a reply about Hannibal being on a vegan diet and leave you to form your own conclusions, but good taste intervened (oops! Sorry!) Instead I'm uploading some photos of the blocks I'm making for the shrouds of the dromon. These are the lower blocks of a pair at the bottom of the shroud, where deadeyes would be on later ships. They're pretty small and I've been drilling the holes with a tiny brass pin with the head cut off, inserted into my hand-drill. (I do have a drill press but it's still in its box until I get my workshop sorted out). The brass pin is too small to fit in my drill's chuck, so I got a tighter chuck which then goes into the chuck of my drill (if that makes sense). I bought a packet of these pins so long ago that I can no longer read the label, and for quite a long time I've looked unsuccessfully for more - I find them incredibly useful, and I was worried I'd run out. The a few days ago I stumbled across a packet in an art and craft store (and immediately bought it, of course). They're called sequin pins! Who knew? Without a drill press I have to estimate as best I can when the drill is perpendicular to the workface and hope for the best. Recently I've been drilling half-way in from both sides and joining the holes. It works ok - most of the time (see below). I make two blocks at a time from the same piece of wood (an offcut of pear wood from making the oarsmen, actually). The main problem is drilling close to the edge of the wood often causes the wood to break off at the edge. So I've taken to making the blocks too big, drilling the holes, then carving them down to the right size. Here's the process: Roughed out and holes drilled. There is a 1mm hole at right angles to the sheaves for the rope that fixes the block to the hull. I carve fake (unmoving) sheaves - that's the way I started out, so I'm pretty much committed to it. Having looked at how other people mass produce "built-up" blocks, that's probably what I'll be doing for the next model. I'll be buying the sheaves - I don't have the facilities or skills to make them myself. Slot and "sheave" carved for the first block. And the second. As you can see, in one instance the holes from the two sides didn't quite line up, but that should be all but invisible when the block is in place. Blocks cut to size and separated. And here is a block together with the two-sheaved upper block it goes with. I've so far made all twelve two-sheaved blocks and the six smaller one-sheaved blocks for the tacks, vangs and parrel truss. I've done thirteen long single-sheaved blocks out of 20 needed. That, plus carving the last 7 oarsmen are what I'm concentrating on at the moment. Steven J11, EJ_L, cog and 4 others 7 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgios Posted June 4, 2020 Share #1209 Posted June 4, 2020 Hello Steven Is it possible to give me the dimensions of your dromon? try to find out how the built the keel. Thank you Louie da fly and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted June 5, 2020 Author Share #1210 Posted June 5, 2020 Georgios, the overall length of the ship (without the 'spur') is 660mm, the length of keel is 495mm, the distance from the bottom of the keel tothe top of the gunwale is about 45mm and the overall width between the outside of the gunwales is 110mm. The keel itself is very thin and narrow - 3mm thick x 3mm high - but you don't have to do it the way I did - I had quite a lot of trouble with the keel bending (though that was more likely to have been that the wood was from a recently cut tree and had not seasoned properly). Please do not hesitate to contact me if you need any help. Steven druxey, cog, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share #1211 Posted June 6, 2020 Here are all the blocks together, including the knights for the halyards. If I've got my maths right, that's the lot done. And I've been experimenting with dyeing the cordage for the heavier rigging. Here is the ball of cord - stark white - along with the cotton for the thinner stuff, which is the color I want the heavier stuff to be. Unfortunately, the colour values aren't all that good in this photo, but I think you get the idea. First I tried a teabag in boiling water - after 10 minutes, 20, 30, 40 and 50 minutes. There was almost no difference in colour between them all, but the white had turned to a rather pretty very light tan. Then I tried 4 teabags over 24 hours.The cord got considerably darker - but I discovered I liked the first one better. Top - undyed, second after 10 minutes, in the middle a block with the two different cord thicknesses (undyed), and the bottom one is after 24 hours with 4 teabags. Again the colour values aren't as good as I'd like them to be, but you can at least see that the colours are different. The 10 minute dyelot is a nice gentle colour, which I'm happy to use. I just hope the tannin doesn't do anything nasty to the (cotton) thread. Steven mtaylor, EJ_L, goetzi73 and 4 others 7 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted June 6, 2020 Share #1212 Posted June 6, 2020 Unfortunately tea /tannin is acidic, so I'd be very wary regarding longevity of your line. A much better strategy would be to spin your own heavier line from the thread that you have already. Color will be guaranteed a perfect match! A simple ropewalk machine is available from several sources on this site or, like me, you can build your own. I used my childhood Meccano gears. Works just fine! (The headstock is powered by a very old electric drill - a bit Heath Robinson - but does the job. Tailstock end is powered by me.) mtaylor, EJ_L and cog 3 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share #1213 Posted June 6, 2020 Curses! I have this enormous roll of thick(ish) thread that I don't want to waste. Maybe I can investigate dyeing it with fabric dye. By the way, all those blocks are either directly taken from or closely based on actual archaeological finds from Byzantine wrecks. The triple-sheaved block and the single-sheaved blocks at the top and on the right-hand side are direct copies. The halyard knight is based on the triple block (naturally), and the central row of single-sheaved blocks is the same as the ones on the right, with the addition of an extra hole for the end of the tackle joining them to the double-sheaved blocks. I haven't seen any finds of those, but they are made by merging the features of the triple and single. Now all I have to do is make 24 toggles . . . Steven mtaylor, druxey, cog and 1 other 4 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted June 7, 2020 Share #1214 Posted June 7, 2020 A quality fabric dye is a better, if messier, bet. cog, mtaylor and EJ_L 3 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANYAN Posted June 7, 2020 Share #1215 Posted June 7, 2020 Hi Stephen, I use Ritters Fabric Dye and it works well if made up and used correctly - available through Woolworths etc and dirt cheap too Give me a 'bell' and I can explain what I do. cheers Pat mtaylor, cog, EJ_L and 2 others 5 Quote If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch) Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350) Built: Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted June 7, 2020 Author Share #1216 Posted June 7, 2020 Thanks, Pat. I'll do that. Steven druxey, EJ_L and mtaylor 3 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share #1217 Posted June 9, 2020 Just did a test for the sling and parrel/truss for the lateen yards, following the Fonseca diagram so kindly sent to me by Woodrat. Like him, I haven't put a block between the halyard and the truss - with the layout I've got it's not needed. Also, no parrel truck, just a rope sling - there is no archaeological evidence for a truck with beads in this period and the very earliest pictorial image I can find for them dates to the beginning of the 15th century - 300 years or more after the date of my dromon. This was just to see if I could make it work - I'm terrible with knots etc and it took me ages to get it right. I'll add the lower toggle and block when I do this for real. At least now I know it can be done, and by me. Steven Jack12477, Kikatinalong, woodrat and 7 others 10 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Pearse Posted June 9, 2020 Share #1218 Posted June 9, 2020 Hi Steven what is the rope that's like a downhaul - it's going downwards & in your photo is to the left of the mast? Is it to tension downwards against the halyard pulling up? Louie da fly, EJ_L and mtaylor 3 Quote completed 1:12 28' Ranger type yacht, scratch build - COMPLETED 1:12 20' 1930 open sailing boat, half model, scratch built - COMPLETED 1:12 24' Ranger type yacht, scratch build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share #1219 Posted June 9, 2020 No, Mark. it's part of the "truss" which holds the yard to the mast, but is loosened when tacking to allow the yard to shift to the other side of the mast - per this illustration from Björn Landström's book The Ship. Pulling on the "downhaul" tightens the truss, pulling the yard to the mast. Loosening it allows the yard to swing free so the lower end can be pushed past the mast, over to the other side which is now the leeward side. That way the wind doesn't push the sail against the mast, which allows a better aerofoil shape and reduces chafing. Steven Mark Pearse, Jack12477, rybakov and 3 others 6 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANYAN Posted June 10, 2020 Share #1220 Posted June 10, 2020 It may have taken you a bit longer than you liked Stephen, but the rope work looks good. cheers Pat cog, EJ_L, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch) Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350) Built: Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted June 14, 2020 Author Share #1221 Posted June 14, 2020 Pat, I was in the sea scouts when I was a kid but I still haven't mastered how to tie a bowline, let alone a sheepshank or sheet bend. I can do a reef knot, and a round turn and two half hitches . . . but I always had trouble with getting my head around knots. Now onto other things. A real milestone - I've finally carved the last of my oarsmen! But wait! (I hear you cry) they still need to be smoothed off and they don't even have arms yet. Crikey, you're a cruel bunch . . . Steven Mark Pearse, GrandpaPhil, Siggi52 and 16 others 19 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted June 14, 2020 Share #1222 Posted June 14, 2020 I wasn't going to bring that up. Now about the flute players, drummers and dancing girls.... when do they show up? EJ_L, druxey, Kikatinalong and 4 others 7 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted June 14, 2020 Author Share #1223 Posted June 14, 2020 We have a flute player The others may take some time . . . I feel like resting on my laurels for a while . . . Steven Jack12477, GrandpaPhil, Ekis and 7 others 10 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sceatha Posted June 14, 2020 Share #1224 Posted June 14, 2020 Impressive work Steven! EJ_L, mtaylor and Louie da fly 3 Quote Current build: Greek Galliot (scratchbuilt) Previous: Byblos Ship (scratchbuilt) Keep building. https://www.scalemodelspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cog Posted June 14, 2020 Share #1225 Posted June 14, 2020 Well you do have a flute player, but what about the need for speed!! You need some muscle music, and a wench for the ultimate rower druxey, Jack12477, Louie da fly and 2 others 5 Quote Carl "Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson Search and you might find a log ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANYAN Posted June 14, 2020 Share #1226 Posted June 14, 2020 Fairly 'armless crew then - sorry couldn't help myself Stephen . cheers cog, Louie da fly, EJ_L and 1 other 4 Quote If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch) Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350) Built: Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Hunt Posted June 15, 2020 Share #1227 Posted June 15, 2020 Bring on the Dancing Girls! 😁 Louie da fly, EJ_L, cog and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted June 15, 2020 Share #1228 Posted June 15, 2020 All right, you jokers, how many of you have carved so many bodies (and legs)? And yes, they are a rough bunch. Well done, Steven. Tony Hunt, mtaylor, EJ_L and 3 others 6 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cog Posted June 15, 2020 Share #1229 Posted June 15, 2020 I have never carved so many armless bodies, but I have drawn plenty more ... does that count? Quote Carl "Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson Search and you might find a log ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted June 15, 2020 Author Share #1230 Posted June 15, 2020 1 hour ago, cog said: I have never carved so many armless bodies, but I have drawn plenty more ... does that count? Not quite sure what that means - not even sure I want to know . . . Well the hands will be able to recover now. Oh, and to clarify, it's not that I kept cutting myself as I carved (though that does happen occasionally), but the heel of the left thumb gets painful, almost as though it's been bruised (it hasn't). Probably just holding the hand in a position it's not meant to be in for long periods as I hold the figures to be carved. Steven PS: I'm onto sanding the figures now - a little more than half way through. Kikatinalong, druxey, BLACK VIKING and 1 other 4 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.