10th-11th century Byzantine dromon by Louie da fly - FINISHED - 1:50

[Louie da fly]

13 hours ago, druxey said:

quoting G & S too

Druxey, that's from Hearts of Oak, not G & S. But I agree - no hope at all . . .

 

By the way, I neglected to mention that according to 10th century Byzantine naval manuals (by Nikephoros Ouranos and Emperor Leo VI) the oarsmen doubled as marines, fighting the ship when it went into battle. They recommend that the bravest and strongest crew members serve on the upper bank of oars.  

[druxey]

Oh - you are absolutely correct, Steven; but it could have come directly from HMS Pinafore!

[Louie da fly]

Stick close to your desks and never go to sea,
And you all may be rulers of the Queen's Navee!

 

Damn! I derailed my own thread again!

[Baker]

6 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

Damn! I derailed my own thread again!

That is what makes this forum so much fun.
Imagine : no internet and no MSW
Everyone in their own hobby room and no one to gossip with 🤪

boring 😳

[Louie da fly]

A step forward. To start with, there were several times in finalising and positioning an oarsman where I had to sit on my hands while I waited for glue to dry between one step and the next, but now I've worked out a way to increase the number I'm working on at any one time, so while I'm waiting for the glue to dry on one, I'm working on another.

 

Unfortunately, there is a limit to how many things I can do at once. For example, although I could glue all the upper oars onto the gunwale at the same time, I don't want to because I could easily undo the work with a careless hand movement. However, once the oarsman is permanently in place the oar is also fixed more permanently -it's glued both to the gunwale and to the hands of the oarsman, who himself is glued to the seat and his feet are glued to the deck. 

 

However, as I have now completed several figures I've become able to work on a new figure at each end of the row that's already done. So Figure A has just been completed - he's had his final shaping and sanding, and has been painted and glued in place. Figure B is the first on the starboard side. He's got his arms shaped and glued on, and he's ready to be removed from his seat, and filler put in the gaps between arms and body ready to finish the shaping. 

 

 

Figure C has just had his arms temporarily glued on, ready to be pinned to the body so I can do the hands and roughly shape his arms. This usually takes several tries - I work out where and what shape I think the hands should be in relation to the oar handle, unpin the arm, carve it to the shape I've decided on, then pin the arm back in place. Check to see what still needs to be done, take it off, shape it some more, put it back on again etc till I'm happy with it. Once I've got the arms and hands the way I want them, I glue them permanently in place, as in figure B.

 

 

Finally, as the figure at A is now complete, that leaves me able to glue the next oar to the gunwale (D). As you can see in the first photo the oarblade is being supported (by a little plastic tub) at the same height as the others till the glue dries. In the second photo I've got a bit ahead of myself - I've placed the next oarsman on the bench, but in fact I don't do this till the glue dries on the oar, as it's fatally easy to dislodge the oar by careless hand movements (don't ask me how I know). 

 

Once the starboard figure (B) is permanently in place I'll be able to have four oarsmen in progress at the same time - one at each extreme end of the row on the port side, and the same for the starboard side.

 

I have to keep up the supply of arms, so in between times I'll be cutting out new ones and carving them roughly to shape.

 

Not quite mass-production, but a faster procedure than before.

[Cathead]

Just discovered this thanks to the welcome reorganization of MSW by era. Glorious work, so sorry I wasn't in from the beginning!  Love the oarsmen, wondering if I'd have the patience to make some Viking rowers the same way.

[Louie da fly]

4 hours ago, Cathead said:

wondering if I'd have the patience to make some Viking rowers the same way.

Don't go there, Cathead! That way lies madness! I've got 48 oarsmen to do, you'd have 58! (I just checked on your build log). 

 

And anyhow, if your sail is up, you don't have to have anybody rowing. Add to that, you can buy Viking figures, though there are some pretty bad ones out there. Having been a Viking period re-enactor for over 20 years I know. No, they didn't wear ugg boots, helmets with horns, they didn't look like the guys on the tv series Vikings, they wouldn't have worn armour while sailing (it's heavy, plus what happens if you fall overboard) . . . more like this- not a bad selection (the last one is very high status, and I have to say, super-cool):

 

           

 

[Edit]: NOT LIKE THESE!

 

           

 

 [/Edit]

 

OTOH, if you just want to carve a few crew members, maybe that wouldn't send you bananas. Always nice to have another person on MSW carving figures. 

 

 

[Binho]

Looking so good, love your figurines!! A lot of work but adds so much

[Louie da fly]

Thanks, Binho. And thanks everybody for the likes.

 

Moving ahead a bit faster now. Here are the latest additions:

 

Figures B and C are painted and glued in place. Figure D now has his arms glued on and filler added, ready for trimming to final shape. And I've added oars for two new starboard oarsmen, who are temporarily glued to their benches awaiting arms.

 

 

 

Later in the same day: Figure D is now painted and glued in place. The new starboard oarsmen (E and F) have their arms temporarily glued on, awaiting bamboo pivot pins to locate them on the bodies so they can then be carved to shape. You can't see it on the photos, but I've also put in some short brass pins alongside the tholes of the oars I'll be adding next. So that's 8 oarsmen completely done, another two in progress, and two more just about to be started.

 

  

[Mark Pearse]

There's a realistic sense in the variety of postures, hair, skin colour, seating position etc. It's looking very good.

[mtaylor]

Looking great, Steven.  One suggestion.. do not but Gene Krupa or Ginger Baker on drums to do the beat for the rowers.

[Louie da fly]

58 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

Gene Krupa or Ginger Baker on drums to do the beat for the rowers.

Horrifying idea! (And yes, I actually have heard of Gene Krupa!)

 

Fortunately, despite what Hollywood tells us, the rhythm for the rowers - at least in Byzantine times - was given not by a drummer but by a flute-player. James Galway, perhaps?

 

And thanks, Mark, for the compliment.

[cog]

You could use the music from Thijs van Leer to get them moving fluidly

 

You really have pulled all the stoppers on your rowers, nice burly lot so far, I see you have a couple of twins too

[Louie da fly]

16 minutes ago, cog said:

I see you have a couple of twins too

Umm, that was a mistake. I thought the further guy was going on the other side of the ship - only realised when it was too late that there'd be two together with matching tunics. (But they're wearing different coloured hose, for what it's worth.) I'm trying to get the colours as much a random assortment as possible (like jelly babies, as in Tom Baker's Dr Who.)

 

22 minutes ago, cog said:

You could use the music from Thijs van Leer to get them moving fluidly

Hmm, to a jazz rhythm? Could be interesting, but I think they'd be likely to do thmselves a nasty injury . . 

[cog]

2 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

Hmm, to a jazz rhythm? Could be interesting, but I think they'd be likely to do thmselves a nasty injury . . 

Then you have another option left ... Brian Eno: Thursday Afternoon. But you will need some time to get anywhere ...

[Jamie Coleman]

The different bright colored tunics are going to look fantastic with the shields once they go on.  Looking really good!

[Louie da fly]

And four more . . . two complete and in place, two newly under way.

 

[PhilB]

FWIW, I stumbled across these roman oarsmen in 1/72.

 

There is also these dark ages oarsmen in 15mm.

 

But hey, your carved figures look fine. A lot of work, but no doubt worth it.

[Louie da fly]

Thanks very much for that, Phil. Unfortunately the wrong size - my figures are 1:50 which makes them about 22mm high. But I appreciate the thought. And thanks for the compliment.

[Blue Ensign]

Hi Steven, your mention of 50 figures on my Fifie log aroused my curiosity and led me to your build, and I'm glad it did.

Love what you're doing with the figures, and I can see that you also love to delve into the research aspect of model building.

I've got 43 pages to go thro' now and I'm looking forward to the journey.🙂

 

Regards,

 

B.E.

[Louie da fly]

More work on the oarsmen. Two new guys added (figures I and J),

 

 

and figures G and H have had their hands carved to shape to fit the oar handles and arms glued in place.

 

 

Here's the process I use to get the hand to fit the handle (Figure I - left hand - the right is already done).

 

Rough cut: the hand is just a squarish block of wood - at this stage I work out where I have to carve the hollow the oar handle will fit into. Note the arm is pivoted on a friction-fitted bamboo pin at the shoulder, which allows me to remove the arm to work on it and also to swivel it down into its final place when I've finished shaping it.

 

  

 

Next, after taking the arm off, carving the hollow and replacing the arm. Then doing it again to get it closer still to the the shape I need:

 

 

 

A bit of shaping of the hand itself:

 

  

 

More shaping of both hand and arm, and cutting a demarkation line at the cuff between sleeve and hand 
 

    

 

And adding grooves to show the fingers.

 

  

Not a perfect work of art I'm afraid, but they do the job well enough (and I'm making a ship model - the figures are just for atmosphere).

 

And here are Figures G and H with their arms swivelled into place and glued in position. I've put wood filler in the gaps between arm and body. Note the enormous shoulders (and upper arms) which are then trimmed to shape once the glue and filler have dried properly.

 

    

 

And here they are sanded and ready for painting.

 

[druxey]

You are getting really good at this, Steven!

[cog]

Do you make German WWII fighter pilots too?

 

Impressive to see how you make from such a bulky bloke a dromon rower

[mtaylor]

Looking good.  Just curious... wouldn't all that rowing build up the upper arms and shoulder muscles?  I guess I need to go back and watch Ben-Hur again.....

[Louie da fly]

12 hours ago, cog said:

Do you make German WWII fighter pilots too?

Not up till now, and I certainly wouldn't do it commercially, though I have occasionally done carvings for other people as gifts "just because".

 

I see you're doing a Bf 109G-6. Is that why you asked? If so, PM me.

 

Thanks everybody for the likes, and thanks Druxey for the comment.

 

Mark, I expect that would be the case, though as Byzantine oarsmen seem always to have not been barechested, clothes would hide some of that. I've taken that into account to some degree, but it's been a bit of a judgment call - somewhere between He-Man and a 96 pound weakling.

 

 

 

But to see the effect of being a galley oarsman, rather than Ben Hur, look at Carry on Cleo. Unfortunately, the rowing scenes aren't available on Youtube (I looked).

[Louie da fly]

A quick update. For the time being until all the oarsmen are finished all the updates are just going to be adding more oarsmen, I'm afraid.

 

 

So far I've got 16 finished, four under way. 

[mtaylor]

Looking good.  Pretty soon you'll have them singing "Row, row, row your boat" in 4 part harmony.

[MESSIS]

@mtaylor 

"... swiftly down the stream". Is this how it goes on? 🤣

[Schrader]

What a job!!!!!!  And. Dedication. 5 years and counting.....  a lot of details for such of scale

 

well done!!!

[druxey]

I believe that it's:

 

Row, row, row your boat

Gently down the stream,

Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,

Life is but a dream!

 

But we digress again. Nice to see the population increasing, Steven.