Hr. Ms. O 19 1938 by Piet - FINISHED - scale 1:50 - submarine of the Royal Navy Netherlands in service 1939 - 1945

[realworkingsailor]

Actually, now that I look back, there's one nice photo you have of the sub surfacing, you can see the fairlead(s), and even you can see it also had a sheave in the middle too...

 

Andy

[mtaylor]

Thanks for the correction Andy.     

[Piet]

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks again for the info and yes, a sheave as well, but I was not even going to attempt that    A lot of that kind of detail must just be omitted.

 

Cheers,

 

 

[Piet]

Hello friends, 

 

Today was spend with more figuring how and where to frame the lower part of the conning tower.  Here too  a lot of small detail can be added to the inside.  According to the drawings there is a lavatory and  a shower inside.  No, I think not.  There are three doors on the port side for access to the inside and I'll make them operable but no interior decoration    

 

I also made two small net cutters of 5 teeth for the forward end of the docking bumper or wale and cemented them on.  I did cut my right thumb on one of them, they are sharp little critters    Okay, I'll get the purple heart now.  But it's only the second small cut i got on the whole build - - - so far, knock on wood.

 

There are two more net cutters to make and solder on the leading edges of the top guard for the trim planes.  I'm still thinking about the side anchor housing, apprehensive about cutting into the side and then making the door look good and believable.  I have to do it but I'm still nervous though.

 

After I drilled a few pilot holes for the AA gun tubes and the periscope locations I managed to knock one of the bollards off.  I wiped the deck with my hand and there one flew off.  Took me 20 minutes of crawling on the floor looking for it and finally found it, it's back on.  Yeah, yeah, I could have made a new one in that time   

 

Okay, that is it for tonight.  

[popeye the sailor]

only two cuts.........must be a record for that somewhere.............geeze,  I got a small cut on my thumb ..don't know when it happened.   your putting some super detail into her.........looking soooooooo sweet!

[Piet]

Thanks again everyone for visiting and your "like" votes, it's much appreciated.

 

@ Popeye, yeah, only two small cuts and the last one didn't even bleed     I's just a nuisance when I clean my hands with MEK.  Yes, the details will make it look more authentic and then to think that I was not going overboard with detailing - - - hmmmmm - - - - must have had rocks in my head    

 

This morning before lunch and helping the Admiral with making Thanksgiving dinner, I did spend some time in the COLD shipyard.  Yes, it was cold at Palm Coast, Florida, down to 10 degrees C       In any case I braved it and made two small net cutter pieces for the dive plane top guards.  Instead of soldering them on I am trying CA glue and see how they hold up.  I just need to be careful not to bump them too hard, I may cut myself - - - again 

 

Then I thought to make a harpoon from the info I gave to texxn5 at the kit build section.  For the result of my try go see John's build log.

 

Okay after fiddling with harpoons (and my father could have used one when they were cruising in the Indian Ocean in 1939.  They caught a shark and used the boathook to drag the monster on deck) I finally quit procrastinating with cutting the hole in the bow side for the side anchor.  After I removed the small piece of the side I was elated.  It was not as bad as I had imagined.  I also removed some of the side planking bulkheads to allow enough space to house the anchor      It's now just a matter of desiding how big / small this anchor should be and by looking at the pic of the K XVI Kreek send me I can estimate it pretty well.  

It's a lot simpler then I was thinking of and can make it happen so that I can stow the anchor on board and also let it go down.  I'll also make the cowling above and in front of the opening as the pic of the O 20 shows, somewhere in my log. 

 

This gives me now also more confidence in opening one of the mine tube locations and install a tube with a model of a mine.  No, I wont make a mine loading trolley, too much like work   

 

Now it's also a matter of getting some copper to make the anchor and the screws.  I think I'll try a copper water pipe junction, can buy some at the local hardware store.  After the anchor stowage place is done I'll paint the topside green, hopefully soon.

 

That means - - - the conning tower   

 

Okay, here are the pics of this morning's work.

 

The final net cutters installed, I think - - - I hope.

 

This is the place where the side anchor will be housed.  The opening is still in the rough, much more work is to be done before we can stow the anchor.  It'll have to be opened up some more on the bottom and some wood removed from the frames inside to allow me to cement the back wall and sides in.  Then the cowling on the outside, veneer or brass shim ???  Don't know yet, will experiment with both.

 

Cheers, 

[Jim Lad]

Nice going, Piet!  Just watch out that your submarine doesn't bite you again.

 

John

[texxn5]

Looks very nice Piet.  I like the metalwork.  I am going to the hobby store this afternoon to see what size brass and copper I can find.  We are limited in our area, and I don't want to drive in to Houston on Black Friday.  Hopefully I can find it, otherwise I guess it will be internet....thanks for providing the sizes for me.

[Piet]

Hello all y'all and thanks for visiting my log and your like votes, it means a lot to me.

 

@ John (Lad), thanks John, and I'll try staying clear of those sharp teeth 

 

@ John (texnn5), thank you for your compliments!  Good luck with the hobby store.  I have found that all three within reasonable driving range for us are not helpful at all as far as this kind of stuff is concerned.  Even with the internet and many suppliers for brass sheet and tubing of the really thin and small sizes are difficult to find.  These local stores are mainly craft oriented, bummer.

 

I did some more on the anchor hole  this morning.  I made it a tad wider and also lowered it some to meet the hull curve.  I installed a piece of veneer in the back of the hole to act as the anchor stock slide and also a small narrow piece on the bottom where the anchor will rest on.  It looks a lot nicer and finished now, ready for the dark grey paint!

 

Been struggling with the "cowl" piece.  The pics I have are not clear enough to show the shape, thus I do have to do some guessing and try to make them as I think the engineers could have figured it.  If I make it from brass sheet stock it'll most likely have to be made in three pieces due to double compound curves.

I might wind up making a mandril to form them with a small hammer.

 

I may have to make the anchor first though to know how much of the cowl has to protrude from the side.   It appears that the anchor slides into it's compartment between the hull and the cowl.

 

 

[ianmajor]

Gents,

 

A good place to look for brass supplies are on model railway suppliers/web sites (not to be confused with glorified toy shops).  Those of us who do railway models get through loads of the stuff. I could supply the details of several UK suppliers but that would not help you.

 

In the US it is worth looking out for K&S products. Their web site is http://www.ksmetals.com/index.html . It is a Chicago company. If you look on this site you will see product lists and a list of suppliers - for example it includes a supplier in Houston Texas and one in Hollywood Florida. The site even includes a few "how to videos".

 

I have had a packet of their brass shim for ages which I use for odd detail. It contains about 10 small sheets ranging from thin to gold leaf thickness. See photo below.

 

  

I had better add the usual disclaimer - I have no link to K&S other than as a satisfied user.

Edited November 30, 2013 by ianmajor

[texxn5]

Thanks Piet, I was able to find what I needed at Hobby Lobby.  Wasn't exactly but I think close enough.  Found a sheet of .008", I haven't calipered it to metric yet, as it is still packaged, but it was the only size they had, it had a little crease or dent in it, so I got  a 4" x 10" sheet for $1.39.  Bargain since I'm going to be cutting it in pieces.  I also found some .8 mm brass rods. Thanks for telling me the sizes, now all I have to do is match your forging skills and I'll be off and running.  Looks like if I match the requirements I'll be building 5 harpoons for the boats, and 8-10 for the racks......going to get a lot of practice.

[Piet]

First of all, thank you all for visiting and your like votes.

 

@ Ian, thanks for the input.  Yes, I'm aware of K&S products but not everyone stock the sizes I need.  Remco is mailing me a small piece of 0.5 mm tubing and a fitting rod.  

One of our local hardware stores carry a few K&S tubes and flat stock but when they run out they wont reorder.  So far I seem to be the only customer who have bought a few things.

 

@ John (texxn5), good to hear that you have found a local outlet for the brass shim stock.  A tad thicker then 0.1 mm is good too.  

 

Today was a day of rest for me, thus no work was accomplished in the boatyard.  I have been thinking about the side anchor cowls though.  I think that I'll try making it from brass sheet stock.  The 0.1 mm thickness is a little too thin so I'll be looking for about 0.2 mm.  That'll be less flimsy and shapes easier with a hammer on a wooden form.  

I did find a few pics that show that cowl a little better sooooooh - - - we are going to apply my old trade, sheet metal mech/former    Just hope I haven't lost my touch. 

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

Edited May 6, 2014 by Piet

[WackoWolf]

With the work you been doing I am very sure that you haven't lost your touch. I will be waiting for the pictures.

[Jim Lad]

Piet,

 

If you were a sheet metal worker, then this will be a piece of cake for you!

 

John

[Piet]

Tanks to all who dropped in and your "like" votes.

 

Hello Wacko Joe and John (Lad), ah yes, sheet metal work on aircraft is a little different, much bigger to start with and big tools and equipment.  I had stretchers and crimpers but at this scale that's impossible.  Here I have double compound curves to make that would be easy in an autoclave sort of devise.  John, a piece of cake? - - - more like hard tack 

 

My first attempt I rejected, didn't like the outcome.  First of all, the top piece was too short and the lower piece as well.  The shrinking of the forward part of the lower piece gave me some trouble.

So, I started with a second try.  Let's see how this develops.  I will leave the aft end of the left lower piece open for water drainage, lessens my work and worry for that dreaded ball shaped end.

 

This'll probably be the most difficult and troublesome part of the build.  It sure is a challenge though and may wind up with a third try.

 

Well, here is only one pic I took late this afternoon.  It's still in the beginning and rough stage.  At least the hole is now all squared away and finished to my liking..

 

So far this begins to look like something I can work with.  There is obviously much more to do with this thing.

 

Cheers,  

Edited May 6, 2014 by Piet

[mtaylor]

Piet,

 

I like the way you're doing this.  Methodical trial and error and it seems to be working out very well. 

[harvey1847]

 

So far this begins to look like something I can work with.

 

You Bet it Piet! I am willing to see that anchor in place covered with that tiny small piece of brass. I guess is not just me but all of us!

 

best wishes!

 

 

Daniel.

[Piet]

As usual, I like to start by thanking everyone for visiting my build and your "like" votes, I do appreciate it a lot.

 

@ Mark, thank you very much for your kind words.  Now that I found a few pics in my archive with some detail how these shrouds kinda look like I have to try making them look as close as possible to the original.  I may not need to make a third one.   

 

@ Daniel, the admiral also thinks it's looking okay.  I fussed with it some more this morning and figured that it being shiny brass in contrast with the primer around it it throws the looks off somewhat.  I think that when it's painted it'll look okay.

 

Talking about the anchor, I have started with it    I settled on a Wasteneys Smiths stockless anchor.  It appears to be close to what they may have had.  Remco send me a few pics he found at the Dutch Navy Museum, so I have a few good examples to work with  Oh, I'll modify it some but who'll tell the difference at this time? 

I'm still going to wait with cementing the shroud / cowling to the hull till the anchor is completed..  It must fit in the opening and it's easier to adjust the opening of the cowl piece then having to make the anchor narrower.

 

The center shaft is made except for the shackle on top.  So far I'm happy with the way it looks.      Sorry, no pics yet.

 

 

[steamschooner]

Piet, Been lurking on your build. You are doing a great job.. Years ago there was a outfit called "Small Parts Inc" in Florida that had all kinds of things a model builder could use. I think it was bought out by Amazon and is now called "Amazon supply"  They carry different metals, small nuts and bolts, and other things one can use. They are not like the old "Small Parts Inc" but may still be useful.

Steve

[Kevin]

wow this building up faster than i am reading it, just spent a fantastic 10 minutes catching up, well done

[Piet]

Thanks to all for visiting and your "like" votes !!!!

 

@ Steve, thanks for mentioning the "Small Parts Inc," I was not aware of it mainly because I only got involved in ship modeling after my retirement of Federal Service a few years ago.  I am a regular customer of Amazon and will log on with them tomorrow at lunch and see what they have to offer.

Fortunately Ace Hardware in Bunnell, a town over from Palm Coast, had some small brass and copper tubes and shim stock I needed.  It's stuff from K+S Engineering.

 

The real small tubes and rods must be mail order.  Small hardware like screws, bolts, nuts etc. I'll have to hunt for.  In old MSW1 was a post with URL's for that stuff but I didn't make a note of it.  The smallest screws and nuts I used in aircraft repair were 4x40's for instruments and radios.  I guess watch and clock makers use some incredibly small hardware but I really don't think I have a use for it - - - yet.  

 

@ Kevin, thanks for stopping buy  , it's good to hear from you again and your very kind words.  I know you are busy with your magnificent Bismarck and don't have much time visiting other builds, so this is a treat.  Yes, my father's O 19 is coming along real nice.  Some slowdowns here and there due to detail work I did not anticipate, like this side anchor.  I had no adea it had one.  I started with a minimal amount of drawings and photos that were added piecemeal at later dates.  And I thought I did enough research work - - - not 

 

Cheers,

[mtaylor]

Piet,

 

Check Micromark also.  They have a lot of model RR stuff and used to carry quite an assortment of miniature hardware.

[Piet]

Hello again friends,

 

Between a few domestic chores like getting on the roof of our house and cleaning the gutters and trimming a small tree from a few low branches, I did make some progress.  I'm almost finished with the side anchor    Yes, that's something to smile about, more tedious work behind me. 

Now I need to figure out how to fasten a cable to it AND stow it into a blind hole that's filled with foam and wood and is now also closed off.  I may have to resort to an "unauthorized" trick butI really would like to lower and raise the anchor with a cable attached to it.

 

Okay, I'll show a few pics of how I have made the anchor, except for the center post, that one I made yesterday.

 

The total width of the anchor must not be more then 18 mm and the length including the shackle is 34 mm.  I had to stick with the Wasteneys style anchor except for the shape of the flukes due to the width constraint and It's really looking good to me.

 

There is still some final detailing and fine filing to dress it up nice before I can install it.  So please judge the pics accordingly, it's still not the final piece, that'll be tomorrow when I have assembled the whole thing.

 

 

This is a layout of the parts and pieces I needed to make the fluke arms.  Each square on the cutting board is ½ inch, this gives you an idea how small I had to work with.  The bottom piece is 0.2 mm thick brass sheet, the brass tubes are 3.1 mm and 2.1 mm which are soldered together to make one thick tube.  The two side pieces are 0.1 mm by 3 X 9 mm.  They form the attaching braces for the fluke center piece that's made from 1 mm thick 3.1 mm wide brass flat stock that I cut 20 mm long.  I then peened one end flat and soldered two square pieces of 0.1 mm flat shim stock to make the fluke.  I had to use two wooden clothes pins and a steel office clamp as a heat sink.  Then it was a matter of filing till I had the desired shape I was after.  If I recollect this whole operation took about 2 ½ hours.  You can see the finished fluke arm to the left.  I did not make a pic of the second one yet but it too is semi completed.  Just a little tweaking and polishing like the rest of the anchor.   The main hinge pin for the fluke arms to the central post will be a piece of 1.5 mm brass tubing.  Both fluke arms will be spot soldered to this hinge pin and rotate on the center post.

 

This shows the center post of the anchor with the raw shackle in process to be made.  I had to solder two pieces of the 3.1 X 1 mm together with a length of 32 mm.  I bend the ends of both pieces to form a V to be able to lay the copper tube assemblies in and soldered that all together.  Then shape and clean everything up and drilled a 0.7 hole in in the other end for the shackle hinge pin.  This pin is a small brass nail with a 0.7 mm diameter.

The shackle is cut from a 0.3 mm piece of brass flat stock to be shaped into a shackle form.  It also has a 0.7 mm hole drilled in both ends.

 

This shows the raw shackle on its side.

 

Here we see the semi finished shackle next to the center post and the hinge pin.  As you can see there is still some tweaking to do to the shackle.  Yes, it should have been a little longer but I am also hight constraint

 

This shows the shackle pinned to the center post.

 

A pic I got from the Internet of a Wasteneys Smiths anchor.

 

A pic I got from the Internet of a Hall anchor.

 

This is a pic I got from Remco.  This is taken at the navy Museum in Den Helder, the Netherlands.  I really like the shape of the flukes and tried to make mine kinda similar.

 

This is another pic Remco send me from the same Navy museum.  Also very nice but would not work for me.

 

Cheers,

Edited March 24, 2015 by Piet

[Piet]

Thanks Mark, will do.

 

Cheers,

[michael mott]

Piet the model is looking great. regarding small nut bolt and screws check this site their prices are quite reasonable and good quality.

 

Michael

[harvey1847]

Good morning Piet.

 

Looking at the pictures of the real anchor and the first one with all that tiny brass pieces frighten me. I mean the soldering work ahead…

I was looking yesterday at Remco´s log and he use a potato as a heat sink. You use an iron clamp if I´m not wrong.

 

Could you explain us more about the soldering method you use and what the hek is a HEAT SINK? Sorry but all my feedback about this is soldering copper pipes for the central heating in my house.

 

I am far away of soldering pieces for my project. I am just wondering about this question.

 

Good Luck!

 

 

Daniel.

[flying_dutchman2]

Piet;

I looked up your builds and this one is intense, pretty big as well. You have a fascinating introduction to this thread.  Thank you for sharing.  Took me a while reading through all the information and checking the pictures, but well worth it.  I will be following this one.

 

Groeten,

Marc

[Piet]

Hello and thanks Michael, Daniel and Marx for visiting.

 

@ Michael, thanks for the URL, very helpful.

 

@ Daniel, well yes, it seems overwhelming at first with 8 different pieces that makes just one of the two fluke posts.  It took me some time just thinking how I would make them.  The center post was easy, it has only 7 pieces    Actually it was an easier solder job.  

I started out by cutting small pieces of copper tubing, one piece that would slide into the larger on.  Clamped it in a wooden clothes pin, heated it up and let the solder flow inside through capillary action.  Bingo, I now had a thick-walled piece of pipe.  Next I filed a flat spot on it and clamped the shoe to it with a wooden clothes pin and soldered it to the pipe.  Next I had to solder the two side braces to the copper pipe and had to use two wooden clothes pins, one to hold the shoe so it would not desolder itself and fall of and the other to clamp the side pieces to the pipe.  Now I had to solder the center piece between the two side pieces.   Here I had to use a "heat-sink."  All that is is something to absorb the heat from what you are about to solder from what has already been soldered.  I used a steel office clamp to hold the parts together and it could now soak up the heat from the previously soldered parts.  A potato doesn't work here, the part is just too small.  Oh, I could have carved a hole in it but elected to use a steel clamp.  It also acted as a stabilizer for the part.  I started away from the heat-sink to let the heat gradually travel toward the steel clamp.  It took a little more time and heat for the solder to flow at that point.

The two end plates for the flukes were done in similar fashion.

 

Sorry for not taking any pics of all this, figuring everybody knows how to solder, my mistake and oversight    If you like I can do a reenactment and post the pics 

 

@ Marc, thanks for plowing through my O 19 log and continuation of your visits.  Yes, it has quite a history behind it because of my father's involvement with her.  That's the main reason I elected to build her in the first place and the way he knew "his" boat.  Later in the war years she was kinda overhauled and several major components were removed, it was no longer "his" boat.

 

Cheers to everyone,

 

 

[augie]

Don't know if they carry what you need but I've dealt with these folks on some pretty small, quality fasteners:

 

http://www.scalehardware.com/miniature-hex-bolts-c-1

[Piet]

Thanks to all who came and visited my dockyard and your "like" votes.

 

Today we reached a milestone of sorts.  The anchor is finished and the cowling is cemented on and primed.  I also painted the inside of the anchor "house" dark grey.

 

It was getting late and to let the primer cure, and it was close to quitting time anyhow, 1700 hours.  So I went inside and had a well deserved brew.  I showed the anchor to the Admiral and she wants one on a necklace - - - hmmmm - - - not    No, she really likes it and that's a good sign 

 

In trying to fit the anchor into it's little house I had to remove some more wood from the inside and  in the process rubbed some of the paint off the hull.  No matter how careful I was, well - - - stuff happens.  This is no problem at all, it's just the paint and that area will be painted green anyhow.  I finally got the anchor to slide in effortlessly, like it knew it knew it  belonged there.  That made me a happy camper.

Can't wait to paint that little sucker flat black - - - tomorrow and stow it out of the way..

 

NOTE, The blank pic locations cannot be reinstalled because somehow I must have forgotten to [ut them into my photo file.  I do have them in my Word doc but they cannot be transferred to this post.  Edited 05/ to/2014. 

 

Now I'm close to painting the green on the topside, whoopee - - -

The completed anchor, unprimed and painted.  Well, okay, it has a little battle damage looks like   

 

The completed anchor, unprimed and painted., from another angle.

file:///Users/PeterV/Desktop/Picture%20clipping.pictClipping

Here we see the anchor stowed in its little "house."  There is just enough room for it and it's deployment.

 

I have cemented the anchor cowling on and applied some epoxy putty to the front for hydrodynamic flow. It's not metal but if yuns don't tell I won't either    Looks okay from ten thousand feet we used to say in the airplane business   

 

 

 

I couldn't resist letting anchor, now primed, hanging down from it's cable.  Ah yes, an unorthodox way but so what     

 

Cheers,

Edited March 24, 2015 by Piet