HMCSS Victoria 1855 by BANYAN - 1:72

[rwiederrich]

On 8/3/2021 at 6:27 PM, BANYAN said:

Hi druxey, not at all   While wire would be more authentic, I think cotton will serve just as well if I can get the right colour and lay.  I'm just being a little stubborn in trying for additional authenticity.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Pat...you are the only one on the planet who will be able to identify the heritage of the rigging line.  Your authenticity up to this point has been nothing but stellar.  Museum quality had been in your rear view mirror for some time now....I want to see some progress......As you know...I'm the epitome of impatience...can you help me with that?

 

Rob(adoring fan) 

[BANYAN]

Ah Rob, you embarrass me; I don't think my work is that great when compared to some of the 'masters on here.  I am somewhat 'becalmed' at the moment due to research etc, but have a made a start on the spars and some of the fittings.  I will post a couple of small updates soon.  

 

cheers

Pat

[Roger Pellett]

Pat,

 

In my opinion, your model is scratch building at its finest.  Not only is your workmanship first class, your replication of detail at this small scale is remarkable.  In addition you are modeling a unique subject and doing your own research as you go.

 

Keep in mind that some materials do not “scale” accurately.  While you might be able to find stranded wire, or solid wire of the correct diameter or solid wire to make your own, its stiffness will probably be “over scale.”  

 

I believe that appearance and longevity of the finished product are what’s important.  There is no reason why properly stained cotton wouldn’t work.

 

Roger

[BANYAN]

Thanks Roger, appreciate your very kind comments.  I think you have convinced me that I will go with grey cotton/linen/rayon (not sure which yet) to emulate the wirerope.  I think your comment re scale provided that last little 'nudge' I needed to settle on a method.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[druxey]

I'm glad that you've come to that conclusion, Pat. I don't think you'll regret it. After all, if the original material for the hull were oak, would you really be impelled to use oak for a scale model? Obviously not.

[rwiederrich]

2 hours ago, BANYAN said:

Ah Rob, you embarrass me; I don't think my work is that great when compared to some of the 'masters on here.  I am somewhat 'becalmed' at the moment due to research etc, but have a made a start on the spars and some of the fittings.  I will post a couple of small updates soon.  

 

cheers

Pat

Thanks bro.  Your doing great,  can’t wait. 
 

Rob

[BANYAN]

Just for Rob (and others if interested )

 

I have made a start on the spider bands for the three masts.  I experimented with several methods but settled on using my tried and trusted soldering a brass tube into a brass washer as the starting point.  Fiinding a brass tube that is of the correct diameter is the hardest as the OD can be thinned if need be, or the hole in the washer can be reamed out a touch. 

 

Below are two shots of my progress.  The one to the right (as viewing it) was my test piece where I used a mild steel washer to work out how to set-up the mill to allow me to drill the 0.8mm holes equally spaced (for the belaying pins.  The specification is silent on the type or material used for the spiderbands - the belaying pins were specified to be brass.  I am going to leave them brass but equally, they could have been painted white.  I will part the inner part on the lathe to the same height as the test piece once I finish polishing it.

 

Points to anyone who can spot the error in the test piece.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[mtaylor]

Looks good Pat.  As for the error... I see it but won't mention as let others find it.

[Louie da fly]

Looks amazing as usual, Pat.

 

I can't see the error, but then I don't know what a spider band is. Is it like a glass spider?

 

 

Sorry, being silly . . . 

 

Steven

[BANYAN]

...and here I was thinking it was a band of spiders (mates to those guys that do rigging)   

 

cheers

 

Pat

[druxey]

Or a rock band called Spider?

[dvm27]

Looks like someone didn't have a rotary table for the test piece.  The holes are not equally spaced at 30 degrees. This where a lathe and mill spoil you as the spider band could easily be turned and reamed on the lathe then drilled in the mill. But certainly not cost effective for just one fitting.

[Louie da fly]

52 minutes ago, druxey said:

Or a rock band called Spider?

 

If you google "glass spider" you get pictures of David Bowie. From Wikipedia - "The Glass Spider Tour was a 1987 worldwide concert tour by English musician David Bowie, launched in support of his album Never Let Me Down. "

 

Steven

[BANYAN]

Thanks for the laughs guys; the levity is much appreciated while we are in lockdown

 

Seriously though, back to the product:  yep the spacing was out between three of the holes.  Greg, I did use a  a rotary table for the test piece but I made the error (about half way through) of miscalculation/set-up in only progressing 20 degrees instead of 30 degrees.  Shows you really need to concentrate.  

 

I am having some difficulty finding the appropriate stock (tube) to use for the mizen mast spiderband.  I need brass tube of 5.75mm ID, or something close to it with enough meat in the walls to ream it out a little.  I have searched the online stores here in Australia, and some overseas with no luck.  Does anyone happen to have a short length of something suitable that I could use?  Edit: or point me to somewhere I can et it?

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by BANYAN

[Jim Lad]

Pat,

 

i had a look in the junk box and found a spent .243 cartridge case.  The business end of it is (of course) .243" ID which is about 6mm, but this section of the case is only about 6mm long.  If that's any good to you I'd be happy to send it when our lockdown allows me to get to a post office.

 

John

[Tony Hunt]

Hi Pat, I'll have a look through my brass bits collection later on today too.  I surely must have something close to what you need.

[Tony Hunt]

Pat, I've got some fairly thin walled tubing that is about 5.5mm ID (on the right), and a smaller piece of thicker walled stuff that is about 6.5mm OD and 4mm ID (on the left).  

 

[rwiederrich]

12 hours ago, BANYAN said:

Thanks for the laughs guys; the levity is much appreciated while we are in lockdown

 

Seriously though, back to the product:  yep the spacing was out between three of the holes.  Greg, I did use a  a rotary table for the test piece but I made the error (about half way through) of miscalculation/set-up in only progressing 20 degrees instead of 30 degrees.  Shows you really need to concentrate.  

 

I am having some difficulty finding the appropriate stock (tube) to use for the mizen mast spiderband.  I need brass tube of 5.75mm ID, or something close to it with enough meat in the walls to ream it out a little.  I have searched the online stores here in Australia, and some overseas with no luck.  Does anyone happen to have a short length of something suitable that I could use?  Edit: or point me to somewhere I can et it?

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

Sall good Pat....its was just a test part...hense the word *TEST*.  your soldering job was very nice for sure.

 

Say...how you doing with all the lockdowns there in your neck of the woods........?  Makes getting modeling supplies a bit tough.

 

Rob

[BANYAN]

Hi guys, thanks for the offers; much appreciated.

 

Rob, speaking for myself, but I am sure many others, are well and truely getting tired of the continuous lockdowns - made all the worse by idiots who will not do a few simple things - only interested in their own interests.  Now that our vax levels are getting better we are all hoping to be able to avoid the lockdowns.  Online has been OK during the lockdown but some supplies are getting scarce - I have heard a rumour K&S have stopped making some small shapes which may explain why I can't find much.

 

John, thanks for that; certainly a fall back option.

 

Tony, many thanks - much appreciated.  I think I can easily stretch the 5.5mm ID tube on a mandrel to make it work; but either would work as I can ream out the thicker walled one.  Would greatly appreciate a short length of either.  Please let me know costs and postage etc.  

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Tony Hunt]

Hi Pat, PM me your postal address and the job's done. I've got to go to the Post office later today anyway.

 

Cheers

 

Tony

[BANYAN]

Hi all, thanks to Tony's generosity I was able to complete the spiderband for the Mizen mast.  The dust on the base of the mast is where I was sanding it ready to put on a coat of finish.  I think the series of shots posted earlier, along with these are self explanatory as to how I made these.  Once the set-up had been worked out it simply became a matter of production line activity.  The final photograph is of the masts with their spiderbands and collars (I have yet to simulate the wedge shapes on the collars)

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

 

[mtaylor]

 Nice, precise work on the spider bands, Pat.   

[Jim Lad]

Very nice work, Pat.  Now I know just where to come next time I need some! 

 

John

[Tony Hunt]

That's a nice drill set up you have Pat. 

 

Which piece of tubing did you end up using - looks like the thick-walled one?

[wefalck]

I agree with the others: a job well done !

[rwiederrich]

Sweet work Pat...fine machining.  I've yet to use my rotary table to make spider bands...you did magnificent.

It's this kind of precision work that sets your model as the bar to be aimed for.

 

Rob

[BANYAN]

Hi all, many thanks for the likes and comments; they are much appreciated.

 

Tony, I used the thin walled one as its' ID was pretty well right - just need a very small stretch with a mandrel.  The mill set-up is all Sherline.  The rotary table is actually part of a horizontal indexing accessory bed from which I remove the rotary indexer head and fix it to the mill x-table bed,  The drill is fitted into a 'sensitive drilling' accessory which makes life a lot easier.  Once I had determined the angular spacing, all became a 'production run'.  

 

I am now debating how to create the 'wedges' in the mast collars.  My initial thoughts are to use the horizontal indexing accessory mentioned above.  The more difficult decision is whether to lightly score them in, or simply mark and draw in with a hard pencil.  My worry with scoring them is that I end up snapping/splitting them based on the grain direction.

 

I meant to mention in the earlier post that the lower masts in Victoria were red pine (the upper where needed were yellow pine), so the colour has come up pretty well.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[BANYAN]

Hi folks, a question (or two) and hoping for some answers or pointers.

 

I am still sorting the rigging of the vessel based on the imagery and the Rigging Warrant.  I have also raised a question in the 'Masting, Rigging ...' area :

 

Also, I am trying to determine which of the imagery re traversing mast hoops is correct (the hoops that slide up and down the mast).   The photographs (where I can make it out) shows that the foremast had 7, the mainmast 8 and the mizen had 6 hoops, whereas the lithographs both show the foremast with 13 hoops, the mainmast 14, and the mizen 6.  Normally I would accept the photograph as the better evidence, however, in very rough terms, the number of hoops would result in a 60 inches (5') between each hoop when the fore-and-aft sail was fully hoisted.  The same calculations result in about a 32" spacing using the higher numbers in the lithographs.

 

To my mind the 60" spacing would be too far apart placing too much pressure on the luff at those few points?

 

Can anyone please advise of a reference/pointer that might provide some guidance?  I would appreciate it also if anyone can help with the linked question, but would greatly appreciate that each question is responded to separately in the appropriate topic area to prevent any confusion and duplication.

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

regards

Edited September 8, 2021 by BANYAN

[wefalck]

Pat, just a couple of comments on your questions in the last two posts:

 

- you wouldn't need to worry about showing individual mast-wedges. They would normally be hidden under a painted/tarred sail-cloth cover that is nailed down to the deck and to the mast. The upper edge may also be fastened to the mast by winding a thin rope around it, that would also be painted over.

 

- the eyelets/cringles for the mast hoops are usually set into the seams between two sail-cloths. Sometimes there is an additional in the middle of the cloth - this depends on the angle with with the cloths run against the mast and, hence, on the effective distance between the eyelets. The sail-cloths would normally run parallel to the after edge of the sail, so the angle at which the cloths intersect the mast depends on the angle of the after edge of the sail.

 

- the hoops are normally strips of flexible wood that are thinned out at the end to overlap. The overlapping ends are 'sewn' together. At this point the hoops would be lashed to the eyelets/cringles of the sail. 

[Tony Hunt]

Hi Pat

 

Five feet apart does seem to be a lot for the eyelets, although Victoria was a fair-sized ship and the sailcloth and boltrope would be reasonably heavy grade materials, I'm sure.  I'll have to take a look at the photos myself 😀.