HMCSS Victoria 1855 by Banyan - 1:72

[Jim Lad]

Very nice looking guns, Patrick.

 

John

[wefalck]

I am very much impressed by those guns, Pat. They came out really nicely. It shows the potential of 3D-printing in all kinds of shipmodelling. You also did a good job in picking out in colour the details, such as the percussion lock.

 

What also struck me immediately, was the 'real' elevating screw. Nice detail ! I gather it is 1 mm threaded brass rod or something like that ? Where they and the wing-nut made from bronze in reality ?

 

Can you remind me, which 3D-printing technique you are using and what material ? Small-scale shipmodellers tend to make finished parts with with technique, while I am thinking of it more as a technique to reproduce parts that in the real world would have been cast in iron or bronze. The moulds would have been made from wood with complicated shapes that are not so easy to reproduce in small scale and even more difficult to reproduce, if you need several identical parts. Such parts then would still need finishing off on the lathe or mill, jut as for the prototype. However, the material used for filament-printing does not machine very well.

 

One observation (if it is not too late): the axles seem to be rather long, the cotter pin should be very close to the truck, so close that it can spin freely, but does not move sideways on the axle.

 

Not sure, I mentioned this before, but I tend to 'burnish' parts painted in metal paints with soft pencils. The graphite gives a metallic sheen to them. This could be good on the tyres of the trucks, but could also create even more plasticity on the lock.

[cog]

Marvelous result, pat. All the time invested worth

[Keith Black]

The guns look great, Pat. Nice crisp detail that stands being photographed close up. 👍

[BANYAN]

Thanks everyone for the 'thumbs up' and comments.  Appreciate the continued encouragement John, Carl, Eberhard and Keith.

 

Eberhard,

1.     WRT the elevating screw, it was made from a small (0.9mm) brass bolt of which I rounded the hex head, then added the handle/spokes.  I have yet to determine whether they were bronze or iron.  I have decided on bronze based on the research of the HMS Trincomalee.  I wrote them as they have a similar arrangement for elevating their carronades and the photos they sent back showed unpainted bronze screws.

2.     WRT axletree extension - yep realised that when I painted them   I somehow put down the wrong dimensions when I manufactured them.  At this stage, I have noted the error but so that I don't damage the carriages, will leave them for this model.  They don't look as bad now I have painted the ironwork, but still obvious Thanks for the observation and suggestions; I always appreciate constructive criticism as I learn and improve from it.  

3.     WRT 3D print process, I will need to get back to you as the actual printing is done by a mate.  I research the guns, draw them up[ in 2D and he then draws them up in 3D and prints them for me.  I pay for materials and some time and help him with other research.   I will ask him the pertinent questions and get back to you.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[mtaylor]

Beautiful work and a such a tiny scale, Pat.  Impressive.

[wefalck]

Pat, I think the elevating screws were probably of bronze, as the thread is cut into the cast-iron barrel lug. Somehow I had been thinking of the other version, where the barrel rests on top of the screw and there is a separate nut.

 

Thinking 3D-printing further: one could actually print some holding fixtures to exactly match gun barrels to hold them e.g. in the lathe for machining say the bore.

[Tony Hunt]

Those guns look great Pat. It's striking how a bit of really sharp detail - in this case he elevating screw mechanism - really lifts the impression that the whole piece makes. 

[BANYAN]

Thanks Tony, a nice sharp bit of detail helps to hide the not so perfect

 

Eberhard, the holder is a good idea and could prove useful indeed; I'll tuck that one away for the future.  WRT the elevating screw, yep, the Dundas design had the thread cut into the lug; thanks for confirming/pointing that out as I had not thought of it and it makes a lot of sense.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[wefalck]

I think it always looks good, when those surfaces that are machined in the prototype are also machined in a model. They just look crisper.

 

Yep, iron in cast-iron would have the tendency to rust fast. Bronze in cast-iron has a good relative coefficient of friction and is less likely to get stuck.

 

BTW, adding the lanyards to the percussion-locks would be a detail not often seen

 

[rwiederrich]

Pat....Victoria is coming along so very nicely.  your work with 3D printing is to be noted.   I've failed to drop in as often as I would like, but you have done wonderfully.

She is so clean and precise......oh so well executed.

 

Great job my friend, your skills are to be commended.

 

Rob

[BANYAN]

Thanks  for looking in and the kind comments Eberhard and Rob.

 

Eberhard, I have to admit defeat on this lanyards to date   but....  I am still trying.  The smallest thread I have still look so out of scale, even the fly tying threads.  As these lanyards were not left permanently attached, but drawn from the magazine when closing up to action/battle stations, I may end up leaving them off.  My currently battle is imitating the 'cheesed' rope coils on the gun tackles.   I could do them separately and attach to te tackle, but it sort of looks wrong, so I am trying to 'cheese' the actual fall of the tackle as per the photograph.

 

Rob, many thanks that is very kind of you to say; not much to look at at the moment as I struggle with finishing the guns - almost there .

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited May 10, 2020 by BANYAN

[Louie da fly]

On 4/27/2020 at 7:36 PM, wefalck said:

Bronze in cast-iron has a good relative coefficient of friction and is less likely to get stuck.

Wouldn't there be electrochemical issues with the bronze tending to accelerate the rusting process in the iron?

 

Steven

[wefalck]

Bronze is quite corrosion resistant (depending on its actual composition). There are always trade-offs, but bronze nuts and steel/iron spindles is a common combination in engineering. Here, because of the cast-iron gun, the spindle had to be bronze. Everything would be greased and the crew kept busy maintining everything corrosion-free.

[Louie da fly]

Yes, it's not the bronze that would be likely to corrode, but the iron.

 

Steven 

[BANYAN]

Hi all, very many thanks for the input re the gun.  I went back through my references and the screw elevating rod and base plate were made of 'gunmetal' - being a type of bronze – an alloy of copper, tin, and zinc.

 

I am not sure there would be a dissimilar metal corrosion (electrochemical issues) with the iron, but I know in my day (while in the navy) we had to treat the interfacing surfaces with barium chromate - I wonder if close attention and the frequent application of grease will have sufficed?

 

cheers

 

Pat

[BANYAN]

Hi folks,  I have made some progress with the guns and now have them fitted (except for tackles to be added to the broadside guns. 

 

The pivot gun  is now complete and shown in the stowed position; a tampion will be added soon.  Note the barrel is deliberately sloped very slightly down ward to assist with drainage should any water ingress.  As it is shown in the stowed position the breeching rope is not fitted, and the gun tackle used as the forward lashing; the eccentric tackles have been removed.  i have left the eccentric levers 9and rollers) fitted purely to show the detail; in reality these would have been removed and stowed also.  Note the size which makes the compressors very flimsy at this scale.  They have been 3D printed and I hope they survive time 9and cleaning) - especially the T-Handle.

 

The carriage fitting for the pivot gun are based on the Improved Ferguson Slide Carriage of 1847, with slight modifications based on contemporary illustrations (1855).  The colour of the wood in the photos appear much more orange than they actually are.

 

The overall shot also provides the hint of the bowsprit which I am working on now.

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

 

 

 

[Tony Hunt]

That is fabulous detail at 1/72. It looks great.

[Keith Black]

Pat, the gun and carriages look like the real thing, very nicely done. 

[Jim Lad]

Absolutely delightful, Patrick.

 

John

[Louie da fly]

Those guns look amazing, Pat. Beautiful detail. I love the VR monogram. Maybe you should put a matchstick next to one to give a sense of scale.

 

As a complete dunce regarding 3D printing, what do you have to provide to get something like this printed? A 3D CAD drawing, or can you somehow scan an existing real-world original?

 

Steven

[wefalck]

Pat,

I am most impressed by the pivot-gun and the slides ! 3D-printing really seems to be the way forward. I am tempted to scrap my laser-cutting stuff.

 

In our German forum there is a guy building the French BRETAGNE of 1855 in 1:75 (https://forum.arbeitskreis-historischer-schiffbau.de/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1548) at the moment and he got himself an SLA-printer. I have to show him your results.

[Beef Wellington]

As others have said already, thats a fantastic looking gun and carriage.  I can only imaging the amount of work that went into this with the 3D printing and all but the results speak for themselves.  Love the overall deck shots, as well 🙂

[KeithAug]

The bow gun and carriage looks incredible Pat - excellent work.

[popeye the sailor]

catching up with your progress Pat.......the overall picts of the deck look superb........the layout is fantastic!  the cannons are done very well........very cleanly done.......the screw is cool too!     ...just beautiful workmanship   

[BANYAN]

Hi all; Tony, Keith B and Keith A, John, Steven, Denis, Eberhard and Jason, many thanks for looking in and generous comments; thanks also for all the likes.

 

Eberhard, yes I think there is a big future in 3D printed parts; still a little way to go for the home printers to achieve the smooth surfaces but all depends on how much you wish to invest.  There are always the aftermarket 3D Printing services (such as Shapeways) that provide ultra high definition, but as the monogram and the compressors show, it is possible to get very acceptable results with the 'home level' printers.

 

Steven, for my part I simply provide the research and 2D drawings.  A more talented mate does the 3D drawing from those and he also prints them.  There is a little more involved with the 3D drawing process than simply doing a 3D drawing (to render) for printing as you have to allow for the qualities/quirks of the printer, allow for the supporting sprues etc etc.  Once the 3D is done you can send the drawing off to many places to have them printed (several in Victoria but some have long waiting times for small jobs).  Some of these commercial printers offer tools whereby you upload your 3D drawing and their software does a check to ensure the model will print successfully.

 

I must admit I am still very wary of the compressors on the after transom.  They fit exactly with the bottom ledge engaging the underside of the rail and the 'screwed' down knob engaging the upper surface of the carriage transom.  It wouldn't take much to snap that bolt, especially when cleaning - I will just have to keep the dust off

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

 

[Louie da fly]

2 hours ago, BANYAN said:

Steven, for my part I simply provide the research and 2D drawings.  A more talented mate does the 3D drawing from those and he also prints them.

Thanks, mate. I was just wondering if I'd have been better having my oarsmen printed rather than having to carve them individually - a bit late to be thinking of this, I realise . Anyhow, I suppose it would have been possible theoretically, but probably not practical.

[cog]

Use an airbrush to keep the dust from settlin' down, Pat. That is some lovely work you have done on the gun, as did your 3D conversion friend.

[cog]

Steven,

 

probably rather expensive too. When I look at the price I paid for some 1/350 guns (vickers and such) ... I don't think I would like to pay the bill when I had 30 armless () rowers printed

[Louie da fly]

1 hour ago, cog said:

I don't think I would like to pay the bill when I had 30 armless () rowers printed

That's why I decided against casting them in resin - too expensive.

 

Ah, well . . .