Soleil Royal by Hubac's Historian - Heller - An Extensive Modification and Partial Scratch-Build

[Hubac's Historian]

30 minutes ago, 72Nova said:

Just a masterful and well engineered job on this kit Marc 👍 and I second your fancy on the Dockyard Model blocks, It's what I use and the best I've seen IMO.

 

Michael D.

Yeah, there are a number of really good block suppliers out there, but the shaping of the Dockyard blocks is really superb, and they offer the smallest sizes.  Their violin blocks look particularly good to me.

 

Thank you guys for all the kind words!

[Nek0]

What a wonderful job you've made recreating this ship !! It's very inspiring !!

 

[Hubac's Historian]

Marc, it is great to see you back on the forum!  Your L’Ambiteaux is looking CAPITAL in her fresh paint.  Thank you for the kind words and for checking-in!

[Hubac's Historian]

I’ve been off the forum, but not completely inactive.  My new work table has arrived and I love it!  Solid Birch.  Gateleg.  Six drawers of storage.

I have also taken exclusive proprietorship over my repro Lancaster County Fanback - a chair that I, alone, love.

 

Arrayed along the back are all of the rigging specific books I have acquired and borrowed.   Among the latter are Marquardt’s tome on 18th Century rigging, as well as a reader-friendly binder expansion of Anderson’s Rigging in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast, both of which were lent to me by Dan Pariser - thanks, again, Dan!

 

I like to use Anderson as my baseline, particularly the earlier edition, because he calls out Continental and particularly French differences.  Simultaneously, I keep pace through Lees, Marquardt and the binder version of Anderson, which is actually the later edition that focusses specifically on English practice.  Simultaneous to all of that, I am referencing my photo library of models to reference fair leads and really see what all of this is supposed to look like.

 

One model that has been particularly helpful as a reference is the following of L’Ambiteaux, in 1:96.  The photography expands in high definition and you can really see where it all leads to.  The full-site version has many more pictures than the mobile version:

 

https://www.modelships.de/Ambitieux/Photos_Ambitieux.htm

 

Because my knowledge of rigging is so limited, this has always felt to me like the most daunting aspect of the build.  Gradually, though, as I follow Anderson’s advice and read through the entire book before starting, I am developing a vocabulary and understanding of what all of the lines do.  Slowly, I am beginning to see how to map out my belay points.

 

Of course, I have been the benefactor of A LOT of extra help, here, with John Ott being completely open about his sources and his own belay plan and line-scale corollaries.  Michael D (72Nova) has been exceedingly gracious in sharing his rigging techniques in very small scale.  And Kirill has also been exceedingly generous in sharing photographic resources and his own knowledge.  Thank you to all and many others!  I think, as I get into it, I will come to enjoy the rigging process.  I am, nonetheless, determined to make a passably good job of it.

 

In the meantime, before I could strop deadeyes and fabricate chains and preventer plates, I needed to fill-in between the middle deck wales at the fore and main channel locations:

Work continues slowly on the Africa figure.  I am in the process of defining shapes and volumes.  All of my edge tools were pretty dull, though, so I took a little time to brighten their edges.

 

Little by little, we are getting there.  Thanks for looking in!

 

Best,

 

Marc

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by Hubac's Historian

[Bill97]

Love your new work station Marc. I am sure your artistic genius will continue to grow as you set in that beautiful chair. (Speaking as a fine furniture woodworker). 

[No Idea]

Great new workstation - There's nothing better than having a nice place to work.

[kirill4]

Good day Marc,

Each time I watching Your building report ,it makes me feel good!!! :)))

Anderson RC - almost 97.8% what we need when be busy with rigging our 17th model... than may be that book of 17th and 18th Century Ship Models
from the
Kriegstein Collection
Second Revised and Expanded Edition

will be interesting, there is a model restored by Anderson RC,so You can compare information in his book ank how he managed rigging of the model... and if we considering interesting version of D7tch influence on French shipbuilding, there could interesting to study rigging plans of Vitsen pinnas by Ab Hoving...I already left link to that drawings , they are in superb quality! In previous posts in Ott's SR building report,or You could down load them free by yourself from ... from... texas university site,if Im not mistaken...or ,for sure, ask Ab Hoving where it could be downloaded...? I have them downloaded but didn't remember link anymore...

Markvardt book is very nice, but it is overloaded with information, need to be very carefull in selection what You realy need for Your model... and it has couple of nice 17th belaying plans on the last pages...I like much more Anderson's book... use it together with Van de Velde drawings and photoes of admiralty models in high resolution will give You almost all necessary info about rigging You need... and of couse in priority books of J.Budriot of the subject, especialy I would like to mention his book The Chevalier de Tourville's THREE-DECKER SHIP 1680.

There are nice step by step rigging plans of how to rigg 3 decker, including running rigging and sails rigging ... Anderson, J.Budriot and Ab Hoving's plans - by my opinion, will cover all we need for rigging SR model

Edited October 1, 2023 by kirill4

[kirill4]

Why You need to fill in this plate between wales?

[Hubac's Historian]

You never disappoint with sources, Kirill.  I will be taking a look at Ab’s rigging schematics.  Your point about Marquardt is well-taken; his illustrations are particularly helpful, but picking out those elements that apply to my time period is a little tricky.

 

The filling seems to have been an element of French practice.  Below, it is a little obscured by the gunport lids, but you can see that this area has been filled flush with the wales because the preventer plates span that gap and the rings need to be flush with that outer surface:

Edited October 1, 2023 by Hubac's Historian

[kirill4]

Thanks Marc,

Yes!

I see them now, It is there...hm, never noted such elements till the momemnt You mentioned it !!! :))) Great!

Some things act like hidden from vew, even they are clear represented... same as I never saw ,till certain moment, spare wood for rigs ,stored outside hull on Dutch vessels, behind lower shrouds deadeyes or chainplates ,but they always been there!!! And they were not small elements I would like to say!:)

 

[John Ott]

Nice furniture, light walls, wood floor, no carpet, nice, well-lit corner. No clutter, everything necessary in easy reach. A great setting for building and rigging a great model.

Of course you know you're making the rest of us look bad.

 

[yancovitch]

ha...mine was worse ☺️

[kirill4]

And mine ... ... this is very interesting, all this landscape  above table  working area...looks like giant railway staion? Could You drop picture from above? Pls

Edited October 1, 2023 by kirill4

[kirill4]

John,

What You are doing with shrouds in this way? 
I saw set of them already waisted as "wrong way done"  in the right corner of your table?...
#To sett shrouds on mast top in pair,                 

#than making temporary carton patern with upper deadeye temporary fixed on it ,              

#to secure shrouds to upper deadeyes,      

#and finaly making lanyards and to make ratlines with normal knots ...                                

it could  be easiest way for this job...
I hope... it would be ...  at least in my case,it was    

I   just pay attention, when  noted   your experiments with making shrouds without masts...It looks like You are busy to find solution how to manage it?
In my mind , it is too complicated way You choosen for it... later on it could be difficult  to fit them on the mast top ,one loop to port> next one to  starboard secuence, when all be assembled alone on the bench,but not on the mast? 
Could You tell a little , what is your idea , how You are making shrouds, and how You are going to fit them on mast  ?
All the best!
Kirill

Edited October 1, 2023 by kirill4

[Hubac's Historian]

4 hours ago, John Ott said:

Nice furniture, light walls, wood floor, no carpet, nice, well-lit corner. No clutter, everything necessary in easy reach. A great setting for building and rigging a great model.

Of course you know you're making the rest of us look bad.

 

John, you’re living your best modelers’ life over there!  What I would give for that expanse 😀

[Ian_Grant]

6 hours ago, John Ott said:

Nice furniture, light walls, wood floor, no carpet, nice, well-lit corner. No clutter, everything necessary in easy reach. A great setting for building and rigging a great model.

Of course you know you're making the rest of us look bad.

 

John,  I see a train layout there; how extensive is it? I've seen setups that run around the entire room.

[HAIIAPHNK]

On 10/1/2023 at 3:31 AM, Hubac's Historian said:

My new work table has arrived and I love it!

 

Is this little table really enough to work on? It's completely incomprehensible to me. I'm going to close this picture before my wife sees how much space is needed for a shipyard. Otherwise I'll be in danger )

[Hubac's Historian]

In New York City, we are accustomed to stretching the few square feet available to us into the functional equivalent of an art gallery loft.

 

No, it is not sufficient, but it will have to do for now.  I would say that, at least it is my own designated space, but my kids are already threatening to do their homework there.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Hubac's Historian

[HAIIAPHNK]

2 hours ago, Hubac's Historian said:

In New York City, we are accustomed to stretching the few square feet available to us into the functional equivalent of an art gallery loft.

 

No, it is not sufficient, but it will have to do for now.  I would say that, at least it is my own designated space, but my kids are already threatening to do their homework there.

 

You've shattered my illusions. I piously believed that every New Yorker has their own skyscraper, robot butler and every pencil has laser guidance and a separate AI. At the very minimum there should be an underground shelter with sophisticated machines, a lab and a Batman suit hidden in the wall.

 

In all seriousness, you are certainly right. And the word New York in your statement can be changed to any other part of the globe. And every man can complain that he doesn't have enough room for his workshop. And would like a little more space. 

 

It's a good thing it doesn't interfere in any way with creating great things.

[yancovitch]

😁😁😁

[Hubac's Historian]

These days, this is what progress looks like for me:

I added the filling pieces for the middle band of wales, so that I can properly mount the chain preventer plates.

 

My J-O-B has transitioned to full-employment, lately, and I have completely lost the pockets of daytime to get small-work done.  The evenings are mostly consumed with coaching sports teams, and emailing families about said sports teams, and generally being a husband and dad.  All good, just BUSY.

 

I don’t have a lot of modeling mojo left in me, to do good work, so I have mostly been reading.  About rigging and other things ship-related.

 

R.C. Anderson really is the foundational read for this epoch.  As I go through it, I have been re-reading the rigging sequence of several of my favorite builds.  The first is Paul Kattner’s intense kit-bash of the DeAgostini Vasa; as a first-time builder, his approach and technical mastery are just incredible.  His log is extremely well-photographed throughout. Along the same lines is Michael’s (‘72 Nova) Airfix Vasa, which is just exquisitely well-done in an impossibly small scale. The third is Marsalv’s Le Gros Ventre, which is just a model that I love, through-and-through, and the rigging is truly excellent.  Very honorable mention goes to Daniel’s Victory, which like Michael’s build is excellent for the technical tricks of making rigging look truly professional.

 

These are peripheral time periods to my own, with their very specific contributions to the history of rigging, but the sequence of work in these builds is enormously helpful for understanding what is a very complicated process.

 

I am, of course, well acquainted with Archjofo, and all I can say there is - dare to dream.  A true Master Class.

 

Now that I have some rigging vocabulary and understanding of what most of the lines do, it has become much easier to conceive of where my belay points should be.  Just as with anything else, you can’t really build a rig until you can understand it and visualize it.  We are getting there, though.

 

As is my custom, I make frequent visits to The Strand, hunting for obscure, and out-of-print ship books.  Most of the time, I come up empty.  Occasionally, though, I find a gem!  On my most recent trip, there was a veritable treasure trove!

 

Winfield’s First Rate (have it)

Lee’s Masting and Rigging (have it)

An updated and comprehensively illustrated Pepy’s Navy (don’t have it, yet)

 

And, then, these two:

I will likely go back and poach the Pepy’s title on my next paycheck.  The two I did pick up are invaluable for both my current and future projects.

 

The Art of Ship Modeling has a very detailed accounting of the construction of Frolich’s L’Ambiteaux, and all of his subjects are beautifully photographed in hi-res.

 

Lavery’s edition of Dean’s Doctrine is also beautifully illustrated and the math of Dean’s approach is very clearly explained.  It isn’t a guidebook to reconstructing a French First-Rate of 1670, but it is useful for understanding the methods in vogue for that specific time period.  Again, you can’t build it until you understand it.

 

Lastly, John Ott clue’d me-in to the fact that an English only edition of Le Chevalier de Tourville was back in-print by Ancre for a very reasonable sum.  I bought that too!  From what I have gathered, here and there, the rigging and belay plans of this monograph are relatively easy to follow.  Thank you, John!

 

So, I just wanted to say “hello,” and thank you all for visiting.  More to follow!

 

Best,

 

Marc

 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Hubac's Historian

[Siggi52]

Hello Marc,

I found your build randomly and i'm delighted what I see. Another colourful ship!

Today I was in in Lüneburg and I saw these portals who reminded me to your model.

 

The Rath's Pharmacy from 1598, and there is still a Pharmacy in it

And the House of a council family … Built in 1568 with a Renaissance portal. 

[Hubac's Historian]

Hello Siggi, and thank you for stopping by my build page.  It was pointed out to me, recently, that my painting of the ship is consistent with the Mannerist style, preceding the Baroque period.  That is also the time period of these lovey buildings that you have photographed.  Thank you for the pics and for the kind words.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Hubac's Historian

[HAIIAPHNK]

3 hours ago, Siggi52 said:

Today I was in in Lüneburg and I saw these portals who reminded me to your model.

 

I apologize for being off-topic. I just couldn't help but react when I saw the familiar lion portals. I'll ask you a question, maybe you know the answer. I am looking for different lions, sculptures of these animals that were placed on the breakwaters of ships. I've found a few. English lions, Danish, French, Turkish, Spanish, Russian, Italian. But no German ones. Maybe you know any German ship, where the decoration was a lion? 
I apologize for clogging up the thread. The answer can be in a private message, so as not to distract with unnecessary information.

 

P.S. The clay city is really beautiful. It has a lot of interesting things in it. Just like Hamburg, for that matter. Been to your maritime museum twice already, but still have the feeling to go 3 or 4 more times. 

[Siggi52]

Thank you Marc for your kind words. 

Aleksandr, I'm sorry but I did't have a German lion for you. If you are the next time in Hamburg, may be you are going also to the Museum für Hamburger Geschichte and the Altonaer Museum. Here in the Gallery of „Contemporary Models from Museums and Private Collections“, I have posted some pictures from these museums.

[HAIIAPHNK]

On 24.10.2023 at 09:27, Siggi52 said:

Александр, извини, но у меня для тебя не было немецкого льва. Если вы в следующий раз будете в Гамбурге, возможно, вы также посетите Музей истории Гамбурга и Музей Альтонаер. Здесь, в Галерее «Современные модели из музеев и частных коллекций», я разместил несколько фотографий из этих музеев. 

 

Thank you for your reply. I'll keep looking. The good thing about my lion project is that no one is in a hurry and I already have many applicants in line. So there is time to search. Anyway you gave me a good tip with the pharmacy portal. I had completely forgotten that there are some really cute raptors there. 
Next time I get to Hamburg I will definitely try to visit the museums you mentioned. Sometimes I think you have more museums than inhabitants. So you can see a lot and for a long time.

[Hubac's Historian]

I can’t remember who, exactly, but a while back someone very astute pointed out that a 17th C. lower mast of this time period would not have been equipped with either front or side “fish,” or re-enforcements.  It is a Hellerism for them to be moulded into the fore and main masts:

They are nowhere to be found in the work of leading authorities like Boudriot or Lemineur:

And so, for a long time I debated whether to shave away these details.  My main argument against it was a concern that doing so would make the lower masts appear too spindly - this, especially, because I had raised each mast footing by about 1/2” for better scale.

 

The primary argument FOR doing this was that it would enable me to properly represent the wooldings with their top and bottom retaining mouldings.  To apply these mouldings over and across all three fish would just look completely wrong and weird.

 

Now that at least one big holiday is out of the way, I was looking for something to jumpstart the project again, so I decided this was a good task to finally tackle.  I started with the coarse Dremel drum sander to remove the bulk of the material:

The challenges with this little project are two-fold.  The first is to carve-in the missing segments of the iron bands (between wooldings.  The other is to maintain a smooth continuous mast taper between the bands.  The pictures basically tell the story:

I think this was a success, primarily because the masts do not appear spindly.  Going forward, I will try to be somewhat more present with this project.  Our CYO basketball schedule kicks off this weekend, and there are a lot of games in the first few weeks.  Then, of course, there is Christmas to contend with.  Who was it that said “life is just one G’damn thing after another!”?

 

Anyway, I think that’s me saying that.  Thank you for looking in and for your continued interest in this project.

[Ian_Grant]

Geez Marc, you keep raising issues that I will have to deal with when I get to my stashed SR. 😬

 

You made an excellent job of it. Not sure if I could keep them round and evenly tapered working manually. Will see if/when I get there.

 

Keep up the beautiful work. Merry Christmas!

[Hubac's Historian]

Ian, if I have confidence in anyone, I have confidence in you.  Your version will probably float, tack close to the wind, and keep the combined Anglo/Dutch R/C flotilla at bay.  I’m excited to see what you do because I know it will be awesome AND innovative!

 

Also, a very Merry Christmas to you!

Edited December 2, 2023 by Hubac's Historian

[John Ott]

Wow. Good job on correcting the masts. Boudroit says specifically in his section on masts and fittings that there were no fish, except—"The use of fish was known, but used as pieces of timber intended to correct the least weakness in resistance of a mast that could have been cracked but not broken." (Book's not-terribly-great English translation.)

So—live and learn. In my case, I learned too late. I didn't get Boudroit's book until after my lower masts were already installed, and so I'm going to live with them, fish and all.

 

So long, and thanks for all the fish.*   

 

(*dated reference.)