Soleil Royal by Hubac's Historian - Heller - An Extensive Modification and Partial Scratch-Build

[druxey]

Nice to see you back at it, Marc!

[yancovitch]

yep!

[John Ott]

Are you being logical again, Marc? This has to stop...

Seriously, I've regretted not taking your path and not making and installing chain plates at the same time I attached the stropped deadeyes to the channels. Now I'm stuck retrofitting the chains—somehow without soldering, since soldering elements + styrene = tragedy. 

 

I think I'll put off my own wire-bending until your next few posts so I can see how my betters do it.

[Hubac's Historian]

I can’t escape the fact that I continue to fail at this chain-making exercise.  As the old maxim goes, though, every failure is one step closer to success.

 

I’ve now thrown away two whole batches of chain preventer plates.  While I was quite right to follow Andre Kudin’s example, for the process of their manufacture, I eventually discovered that that process is not entirely transferable from 1:48 to 1:96 scale.

 

After forming his basic links, Andre solders them closed at one end, and then places the closed link back onto the two pins so that he can crimp an eye on each end with his round pliers.

 

Well, the 28 gauge brass wire I’m using does not provide enough surface area for a strong enough bond to survive the crimping.  My success to failure ratio was pretty poor:

So, my lesson from that exercise was that I needed to do the crimping before soldering one end closed:

These soldered loops will be the lowest end of the chains, bolted into the wales.  That way, I could induce a series of bends into the upper half of each preventer plate, so that they could overlay the next small link:

Above I’m just using another preventer plate to check that the bends I’m making are sufficient.

 

So, I spent a good chunk of time cleaning up the solder and inducing bends into the remainder of the preventer plates.  The solder joint will be re-enforced with the CA glue that fixes the pin-bolt in place:

With that out of the way, I could make a new, slightly closer-spaced pin jig for the next small link, which is only crimped on one end, where it seats beneath the preventer plate.

 

Now that I have a process that I know will work, and now that I’ve had all of this practice, these next links should go fairly quickly:

I have a lot of these to make, solder and bend - about 70 to ensure I can use the best.  This has all been a colossal PITA, but it was really important to me that all of this look very clean and uniformly shaped.  In the process, I have acquired some very valuable metal skills that will only enhance this and future projects.

 

That said, I am going to experiment with using black nylon thread of an appropriate diameter to connect the deadeye strop loops to the small links.  This would essentially be a variation on the way that the stock kit represents these links, but I will do individual chain loops that draw tight with some form of slip-knot that I can pull up and hide behind the deadeye strop.

 

Andre had a great method for producing these variances, but it is all just that much more tedious in the smaller scale.

 

The advantages of doing this are several.  So long as there is not a jarring difference in appearance between the black thread and the blackened metal, it will save me tremendous amounts of time.  It also simplifies the difficulty of accurately measuring and keeping track of a series of increasingly longer links as the shroud angle increases from fore to aft.  Lastly, it greatly simplifies the placement of the deadeyes because I can add the retaining strip, in advance, and it also makes it much easier to locate and properly secure the bottom two links.  Hopefully, that will work out.  

 

Well, I keep saying that I’m going to get back in the swing of the project, and then I get sucked into coaching another basketball team - now my son’s Spring rec team.  Meanwhile, the Rangers and Knicks are just too compelling to ignore this post-season.  At least for now, I can see the end of the tunnel for these chains, which is tremendously motivating, and then I can return to the more immediately gratifying work of outfitting and arming the main deck.

 

Thank you all for taking the time to look back in on This Old Build.  More to come!

 

Edited April 25 by Hubac's Historian

[druxey]

Late to the party; the soldering should be on the straight part of the loop, not the end. Failure rate should be much lower.

[72Nova]

I tend to agree with druxey but your latest attempt looks solid Marc. I used thread to strop my dead eyes on the Vasa, I used thinned down PVA with paint and while still wet I rolled it out on a flat surface with a metal straight edge but a paint stick would work just as well, this seems to hold the fibers in check and the end result looks good.

 

Michael D.

[Bill97]

Marc I think they are looking fine. When I built my Victory I ordered Daniel’s (Dafi’s) chains. For my SR I decided to attempt to make my own as you are. I experienced the exact issues with finding the best spot to solder and when to attempt the crimp. It is frustrating. I think a fault I have in modeling that you don’t have, and I compliment you, is after a number of tries at perfection I give up and use my best attempt. Especially if it is an item I expect will not be that visible to others. Like chains under the channels. You however my friend, and again I compliment you, are an absolute perfectionist. You work truly shows it. 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

This one can probably be filed under “teachings about the sucking of eggs”, but as a one-time metalworker can I add a little bit of info. The wire you’re using looks like cold-drawn brass stock, meaning it’s pulled through a former to get its diameter. This causes the grain crystals to get elongated (oh look at me, showing off that I paid attention at college!) which makes it springy and harder to shape. If you heat it to about “ouch, that hurt”, and let it cool it’ll be annealed and hold its form, but my memory is that brass work hardens very easily, so keep that in mind. Or you can fish out the little bundle of mild steel 0.5mm gunport lid wires in the Heller victory kit (so I assume also in the SR), which seemed to be already annealed. Either that or the quality was so poor that it worked in our favour.
 

[Hubac's Historian]

As always, Kevin, your knowledge bank is astounding.  I think you are right about this wire’s manufacture, but given the relatively light gauge, it has been pretty easy to pull taught around the pin-formers.  What is essential to this process is a pair of parallel pliers.  I’m indebted to Druxey for that tooling tip!

 

As always, Bill and David and Michael, and everyone who is looking-in - I appreciate the support!

[wefalck]

Indeed, making the split at the long part and soldering there, as druxey said, would have been my first thought too. Also silver-soldering with some paste might have been easier and stronger.

[Siggi52]

Hello Marc,

what I use to cut brass wires is a cutter for finger or toe nails. I grind one side thin, so that I could cut also small diameters. For soldering I use almost a soldering fluid. Then you needs only a small amount of tin on your soldering iron and it would flow evenly. If brass is to stubborn to bend, I would use copper wire. 

[Bill97]

Where I struggled when soldering my links was trying to trying to solder the the wire loop end to end. Eventually I had to overlap the wires just a bit then solder. 

[dvm27]

I struggled with silver soldering for some time until I found a system that works for me virtually every time. First off, the mini torch I was using did not generate enough heat for silver soldering. I have since had excellent success with the Blazer Torch https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017Z8KD3S?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_product_details. More importantly I switched to silver solder paste from Euro Tools. It comes as soft, medium and hard so you can solder adjacent pieces. Otherwise I use the medium https://beaducation.com/products/silver-solder-paste-medium. I also use Battens Flux on the joint prior to soldering but I'm not sure if you need it with the paste. You only need a speck of the solder on the joint and you have to move the torch the second it flashes. At any rate if you're having unsuccessful solder joints more than 10% of the time maybe give this a try. Also, as Druxey has pointed out, it's best to place the joint on a linear plane.

[Hubac's Historian]

I considered buying a torch like that when I first picked up soldering supplies.  I decided, though, to see how easily a conventional soldering iron would work with the Solder-It, silver solder paste that I purchased.  There is a generous ratio of flux to colloidal silver solder, with this product, so I found that the smallest amounts make nice joins with a quick touch to the iron tip.  Like anything else, it was a process of course-correction to figure out how to use these products correctly.

 

I do know that the technically correct place to make the joints is along the straight parts, however, at this scale I was having a ton of difficulty getting my wire ends to meet nicely; I was either too long, resulting in a bowed straight, or too short, necessitating an excess solder-fill.  I also made the first batch of preventer plates too long, and I wasn't using enough solder paste on the back side to bolster the join enough for bending/shaping.

 

Dan Pariser suggested that he likes to cut meeting ends on a long bias so that they overlap like a scarf joint; more surface area produces a stronger joint.  As usually happens with this kind of thing, doing something like snipping wire ends hundreds and hundreds of times has a way of sharpening your skills and discernment for where precisely to make a cut.  At this point, I could fairly easily make those wire ends meet exactly where they need to.

 

I do appreciate the correctness of what you guys are suggesting, but the method I have arrived at is working for me in this scale, and producing the clean results that are a higher priority to me than rigorous accuracy of manufacture.  In larger scales, I absolutely would give the "correct" way a go again.

Edited April 30 by Hubac's Historian

[druxey]

The diagonal joint is great when there will be a lot of stress on the finished item. In your case I suspect the load will be minimal!

[Hubac's Historian]

This business of learning to make the chains continued to confound me as I discovered yet another mistake in my process.

 

For anyone who may also be new to this aspect of the hobby - BEWARE: jewelry wire (brass/copper) is coated with an anti-oxidation layer.  Brass black will not take without first stripping the coating (acetone bath, 99% purity - available at the pharmacy), and then roughing the wire surface with ScotchBrite.  I failed to do either of these things.  For your own sake, just buy untreated, soft copper wire.

 

My first dipping in JAX brass black almost didn’t take at all.  Whatever oxidation there was, was very spotty and wiped away easily.  After thoroughly rinsing the parts in acetone, my second JAX bath did much more to blacken the parts, but the depth of oxidation was highly irregular, there were still lots of completely bright brass patches, throughout, and the oxidation that was present still rubbed off too easily.

 

What to do, now?  I quickly decided that I absolutely was not going to re-make all of these fittings, as I had at least bent them into nicely uniform parts.  The only reasonable solution, IMO, was to spray-prime the lot black:

 

After inserting the deadeyes, and any necessary touch-up, the deadeye strops looked like this:

Quite satisfactory, I think.  On the inside, bottom edge of each deadeye, I placed a drop of CA, in order to fix the orientation of the deadeye.

 

I needed to make a run of split-rings, both for the gun out-haul tackles, and for between where the chains attach to the middle wales.

 

For these, I really like how tight a twist I get with galvanized steel wire.  Given that I was going to paint these, as well, it didn’t seem quite so important what the material was, but how it behaved.

I found it quite easy to close the eyes with my parallel pliers, a decent set of which are essential for this work (Thanks Druxey!), and I sealed the rings with a spot of common, brush-able CRAZY GLUE.

 

The eyes on deck:

In preparation for the deadeyes, I made ready the channels.  Because I found it necessary to shift a handful of deadeyes, so that the chains do not interfere with the gunport lids, I found it necessary to widen a number of the channel slots.  I then drilled for short sections of .030 styrene rod, so that I could favor one side of the slot:

Next I made capping strips for the outside edges of the channels, and simulated the nailing with shallow slices of triangular styrene rod.  I used the same “heat flashing” technique to dome over the heads:

With my masts in-place and a guide-string, I penciled-in the preventer plate locations.

 

The important thing, I think, was that the join of the preventer plates and the small loop-links be in a consistent plane, along the upper middle wale - just slightly higher than mid-wale.

 

Following a tip from fellow SR enthusiast Eric Wiberg, I purchased the following dome-headed rivets:

 

https://www.eugenetoyandhobby.com/products/plastic-rivets-round-head?_pos=3&_sid=320937e14&_ss=r

 

My idea was to use these with plastic cement to secure the preventer and loop links.

 

After drilling the top preventer plate/loop-link hole, I secure the position of the preventer plate with a common sewing pin in the top hole, and then swing a short mechanical pencil arc for the bottom hole location.

 

There are very slight differences between preventer plate links, so you do have to drill specific links for a given location.  It is very fiddly to fix the plates with these tiny styrene pins, but it can be managed from the bottom up with plenty of patience and a sewing pin to guide mating eyes into alignment.

 

Now, my hope for some time and results redemption depended upon whether or not I could make appropriate diameter thread look like the long connecting links.

 

Among my stash, was some really nice line that Dan Pariser very generously donated to my cause.  Although light in color, I found I could “paint” lengths of line with two passes of a black sharpie, which also gave the line some stiffness when dry.  I found that a single bow-knot gave me the ability to introduce tension to these links:

 

Obviously, it is important to ensure that the loop links and deadeye strops are in the correct orientation to each other.

 

The proof of concept on this first link gave me sufficient confidence that this idea will produce a nice result.  It is only important that one wait to stiffen the knot with CA until after you have pulled the knot up close behind the deadeye strop loop.  On this first one, I glued before doing so, and the knot is less perfectly concealed than the others will be:

This picture above was before pulling the knot up.  Eventually, when the lower deadeyes are lashed to their corresponding upper deadeyes, these chain links will pull fully taught with just the slightest tension.

 

Here is where things stand as of now:

I quickly learned it is wise to cover the gun ports, so that you are not continually losing links into the hull.  After pinning the links in place, I brushed over the link assembly with thin CA, to give it a little extra holding power.  I then left it to dry overnight.

 

Next, I will draw all remaining loops taught, and then the whole of it will receive a thinned acrylic black wash to homogenize the assembly and touch-up any bright spots.

 

There are, of course, many better ways to go about all of this.  For me, for now - I’ll take this all as a learning experience and move-on with it.

 

Thank you all for looking-in!

 

Best,

 

Marc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 30 by Hubac's Historian

[Hubac's Historian]

So, I had a small pocket of time to snug and snip the fore, port channel. I was able to finesse that first knot up a little higher. Really - and considering that they do tighten up just enough more under slight tension - I am very pleased with this experiment. Black touch-up paint to follow:

I am at least confident that these long links would not look better as wire. I may have over-calculated the angle of the two furthest aft preventer plates, but I was just following what the test line told me to do. Also, technically, the preventer plate links should span to the lower wale, but the first batch I made just looked over-long. I can live with this compromise. It is still a vast improvement over the stock kit. The important thing is that the chains no longer interfere with the port lids.

There are three backstay deadeyes that I have yet to prepare, but I will get to them in the next few rounds of deadeye prep.

[druxey]

Excellent result, Marc!

[Kevin-the-lubber]

I think that's come out very well indeed Marc. Your opening line about the coated wire resonated, I think I found the same on my CS cathead levers, the blacking just rubbed off,  and I resorted to using a black acrylic marker pen. I like that it adds more or less zero 'paint' thickness, but the downside is that it has a sheen to it, though this can be made matt with lacquer. 

[Hubac's Historian]

Another good tip with the marker pen, Kevin.  Thanks to all for the likes and looking-in!

[HAIIAPHNK]

What a brilliant idea with the marker. I thought I was the only one who had trouble blackening brass. And here's such a great idea! Thank you. It's a great morning today, a chance to look at beautiful work and a beautiful ship. And to see some great advice. It's a great day!

[CiscoH]

Marc - it has been my experience that sharpies fade to a clear grey color in about 2 years (we use them in our medicine logs at work all the time).  i think you said you painted over and if so not as issue.  beautiful build

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Ps. I don’t use sharpies or any other kind of normal permanent marker pen, for that very reason (I use them all the time for plant pot labels and you’re right, they fade to grey within a year). I use Pentel acrylic art pens, I can’t say whether they have the same issue, only that none of the ‘pen-painted’ parts I’ve been handled this morning, at least some of which were painted a year or more back, have lost their blackness.

 

BTW, as I’m writing, I also bought a pack of spare ‘nibs’ for the pens, so I can trim one to a very fine point. They go feathery quite quickly but I just trim off the feathers. I’ve found black and gold pens are excellent. Other colours seem to be less opaque so I stick with paints for these.

Edited May 31 by Kevin-the-lubber

[Hubac's Historian]

Thank you, Guys!  Yes, Cisco, I’ll go over the whole chain assembly with dilute black acrylic and that will even out the color and finish.  The sharpie is just a quick and convenient way to make the line dark, initially.  That’s good to know about the color fading, though.

[kirill4]

Good day Marc,

That your idear for / how making long links - works very good!

And final results looks very nice!!!

However have some doubts regarding angles of each particular chain?

May be there is sence to make some kind of carton patern or any other kind of paterns with preliminary drawn lines at correct angles of each shroud- chain link, to find out correct angle position ? And than to install each chains at correct angles?

 

[shipmodel]

Hi Marc - 

 

Really nice looking work, and thanks for taking us on the journey, potholes and all.

 

I had the same question as Kirill.  How did you aim your deadeye/chainplate units at the future masthead location?

 

Dan

[72Nova]

Wonderfully done Marc👍

 

Michael D.

[Hubac's Historian]

I think part of the reason that the alignment of the chains looks a little off has to do with the fact that the Heller kit was not designed for the main and fore channels to be beneath the main deck guns.  They were originally designed to mount above the main deck guns.

 

That meant that my shrouds had to navigate safely around the f’ocsle/q’deck guns, and the main deck guns, while the chains had to be clear of the port lids of the middle battery.

 

With all of that in mind, I tied a string around each masthead and plotted both the shrouds and their corresponding chains.  By necessity, in some instances, the angle of the chain breaks plane with the shroud.

 

As with so many details of this modification process, it is an imperfect compromise.

[FriedClams]

Nice update and a great result, Marc.  Thanks for sharing your process. 

 

Gary

Edited May 31 by FriedClams

[wefalck]

She is indeed coming along nicely 👍🏻

 

Concerning black 'marker' pens: there are now on the market several brands of 'artists' pigmented acrylic brush pens. Being pigment, rather than dye, they should not fade, particularly the black ones, that presumably contain carbon-black as pigment.