Greetings! and request for input on which ship for first POF

[clifforddward]

Greetings All!  I've just joined the Nautical Research Guild and am looking forward to learning from others as I get serious about model shipbuilding.  I've been a modeler all my life, researching and scratchbuilding extensively as a part of my Live Steam Locomotive efforts.  Along the way I've learned metalworking and have learned my way around a lathe and mill that helps my modeling efforts immensely. 

 

I've always been interested in ship modeling, particularly plank-on-frame construction and admiralty hull models.  Since I'm not getting any younger (now 58), I decided a few months ago to start research and begin building a ship.  I've built a few solid hull and POB model ships over the years...nothing to brag about, just enough to keep my interest and make me realize I'd eventually want to do it in a serious way.

 

So now I find myself faced with a multitude of online builds on the internet, with a seemingly endless list of models and plans available....I am interested in working with the highest quality materials (with all the time involved why use anything less?), and am interested in finding a POF ship model to build that has enough instructional support along with community support to allow me to reach out to others when needed.

 

I am currently considering the Oneida using a wood kit from the Lumberyard, or the Hannah using Hahn's plans & book along with a wood kit from the Lumberyard.  I like the look of the Oneida better (and I suppose that alone should be the deciding factor), but wonder if Hahn's upside down construction methodology makes the Hannah a more forgiving first POF project. I'm open to other possibilities, but like the era of these ships along with their military ties.

 

BTW, I have a fairly full complement of shop tools, including a Byrnes table saw (been using it for years cutting word for my railroad hobby), and plan to add his thickness sander soon...plus the usual complement of drill presses (large and small), disc sander, scroll saw and the like...so I'm not concerned about having the tools needed to process wood.  

 

I'm more concerned about picking a POF project where a fair degree of success is assured if I stick to it and do my part.

 

Look forward to input from the community here...

 

Best Regards,

Cliff

 

Cliff Ward

Cary, North Carolina

[geoff]

Welcome to MSW Cliff. I am sure you produce some wonderful models as a young 58 year old! All the best, Geoff

[MEDDO]

Welcome!   For a great idea of what a Lumberyard kit entails you can check out the build log of the Schooner Halifax by Rafine.  There are a  few other lumberyard wood package logs around here as well.

[Ulises Victoria]

I can not offer you but a welcome to our site, Cliff,  since I am not familiar with the subject you are asking about. In fact I got here expecting to see some answers to your question, since I am interested in doing some POF build some time. I am 10 years your senior... I may have less time than you to do all what I want to do!

 

 

Ulises

 

[Anja]

Hello Cliff and welcome aboard,

 

This is a great place to learn and share tips and techniques.

If needed, you'll find plenty of help, advise and encouragement from everyone. 

 

I wish you smooth sailing with our gallant crew.

 

Regards,

Anja

 

[Justin P.]

I would have suggested that you ought to start with a smaller project, but it sounds like you have the experience and chops to have a successful go at it...   Good Luck and Welcome.  

[Thistle17]

Nice to have a new member and younger at that, that is always encouraging from a propagation of this splendid art form and pastime!

 

Assuming you have the basic skill base down and also the tools then you are likely to engage most model projects with confidence and likely good results. I would suggest that you consider the instruction set as a stating point. I am unfamiliar with Lumberyard plans and instructions. However I am familiar with Model Shipways and/or Syren instructions and plans. While I am not suggesting any source if you go on line and look at the PDF's for say the Model Ship Ways, Confederacy or look at Syren Ship Model company's Cutter Cheerful you will see what I consider the standard for instruction sets. Not strangely they are written by the same person, Chuck Passaro. Having said that, starting out anew it might be a good idea to look at Cheerful. It is a splendid model and  components (even the materials package) are available to you for the build. In addition this web site, under Scratch build has incredible logs of the process and they set a standard for good work.

 

Good and safe voyage Cliff.

 

Joe

[Estoy_Listo]

Hi Cliff,

 

Welcome to MSW. You came to the right place.  Looking forward to seeing which build you choose.

 

Best regards 

 

Mark

[reklein]

I think the Billings Oseberg Viking ship might be a good place to start. The planks are all spiled and laser cut for you. You have to be very careful and take your time, but , seeing you are already a model builder and understand the use of tools you should be able to handle it.Theres a couple build logs  on it too. But its straight forward and the pieces are large.

[Stevinne]

Welcome and good luck to you. I wouldn't worry about starting at 58 - that's about the time that life gives you enough time to really enjoy a hobby. I've only built POB kits, but I would second the recommendation of checking out the Confederacy plans - Model Expo has great customer service and Chuck is always around on these boards. Good luck and I hope you enjoy whatever project you choose. 

[Jaager]

An advantage with scratch building is that a reasonable set of plans is all you need to start.

The one tool you do not mention is a saw capable of resawing 1" and 2" lumber into stock

for use with a thickness sander and the Byrnes saw.  A 14" bandsaw is ideal,  a tablesaw

can do it, but is more unforgiving and the loss to kerf is about twice or more.

 

For detailed plans ANCRE offers a sizable inventory of monographs of individual vessels and several are of a vessel complexity that

would make a prudent choice as an initial project: cutter, brig, schooner.   These are French

in origin and there are also other smaller indigenous types.  The French products are generally

elegant in design and appearance.

On cursory thought, the similar monographs for English or American vessels are 3 mast - larger

vessels  that can be a bit over whelming for a beginner.

 

[S.Coleman]

All the best! Of all the tools you already have, The best tool when used correctly is patience.  But I'm sure you well and truly understand that one. I have not myself built a POF but there are certainly a few on here that have. 

I see the Syren is quite popular. 

Welcome aboard.

[reklein]

I'm gonna stick with the Viking ship as it really is a lesson in planking. I've built a few ships and am having a little trouble with the Syren. The planks are small and narrow.

[EJ_L]

Welcome to MSW Cliff!

 

I do not know if there are any kits that would meet all of your expectations. I'm thinking it might be best to pick a ship you like and acquire the plans and any other drawings, pictures etc., that you can find on it and just go for a complete scratch build. The people on here will be better guides and instructions than what are found in most kits and that gives you more freedom to make sure you are getting the quality materials that you want to use.

 

In any case, best of luck to you on whatever you decide to do and I look forward to seeing your build!

[mtaylor]

Hi Cliff,

 

Welcome to MSW.   For a first POF scratchbuild, I would not recommend the Hahn plans/"kit" from the Lumberyard as all you'll get is the frames and the decorations.  And there's really no instructions with the wood and plans.  You'd need to get Hahn's "Ships of the American Revolution" for instructions.  The instructions in the book do make a lot of assumptions on your expecrience however.  While they're fine models when done, I'll join Bill (reklein) in his recommendation for the Viking Ship.   Start easy on your self and then ramp up from there.

[Roger Pellett]

If you have your heart set on building a plank on frame model as your first effort, I recommend the Hahn system which provides a datum to align pre fabricated frames. The Ancre method involves cutting out and erecting many separate frame segments on the keel.  While the Ancre method more resembles construction of a real ship, Hahn's system is a great introduction to POF modeling.

 

Hahn was a prolific writer and in addition to publishing two books, many of his articles can be found in the Nautical Research Journal- check the on line index.  The NRG is about to republish the first volume of their Shop Notes and this includes an article by Hahn describing his method as well as patterns for building on of his Revolutionary War era schooners.

 

When Hahn built his models he used an 8in table saw with hollow ground veneer blades, not a miniature saw.  I built a POF model of the New York Pilot Boat Anna Marie with good results from Chapelle plans using Hahn's system and 8in table saw.  

 

Hahn's early models were built from maple, not box or pear wood.  If you are an experienced modeler, I don't think that you need to buy a kit.

 

Roger

[clifforddward]

Wow!...I'm overwhelmed by so many greetings and sincere ideas for my first POF build...thank you to all for the suggestions.

 

Building the Syren Ship Model company's Cutter Cheerful would probably be an ideal fully rigged model for me to build as it appears to be a super high quality kit with a great set of instructions and wealth of detail.  But my passion is Plank-on-Frame construction and I really want to build a ship model using this technique. 

 

The suggested Viking ship is very interesting, but I fear since I don't currently have a passion for that era of ship the project might languish in my hands.

 

I've continued my research by doing a deep dive into the build logs here on the site...One project that "jumped off the page" is Admiralty Model's Echo Cross Section.  Looking at their web site and the build logs here it seems well thought out and designed to be built to a very high standard.  It fits the era of wooden ship models that interest me most...something I figure is highly important to carry me through completion of the project.  Throughout my modeling I've always had better success completing projects that have the most interest to me.

 

Being a cross section rather than a full hull is likely to mean I won't be biting off more than I can chew with this first POF project...I've re-read the For Beginners-Cautionary Tale a few times over the past couple of days and think I should think long and hard about taking on too big a project...

 

Would appreciate feedback on the idea of starting with this Echo Cross Section as a first POF project....what does the group think?

 

Now I'm not saying I'm ready to commit to building a full hull Swan class ship model, but after I build the Echo Cross section I should know if I'm interested in tackling a full ship in POF.

 

I've written to Admiralty Models to check on availability of the cross section kit as well as the fitting out kit...or if anyone here on the forum has this kit and has gone cold on it, please reach out to me as I'd be interested in buying an unstarted kit.

 

Best Regards,

Cliff

[JeffT]

Hello Cliff. Welcome to MSW 

[EJ_L]

Cross sections can be a good starting point to judge if you will enjoy building a fully framed ship. Of course they still do not prepare you for all the trickier spots nor the overall scale of an entire ship but, they do begin to teach you the skills and patience needed. That is how I am introducing myself to full framed models is with a cross section of ship that I am finishing now. 

 

Passion for your project is very important so finding a ship that interests you is good to maintaining interest throughout the build.

 

Another option is you could get a plank on bulkhead ship and replace the false keel and bulkheads with proper framing. Doing that you get all the materials you need for planking and decorations and only have to scratch the frames. With the plans and bulkhead pieces you will have guides for the hull shape which will guide you in making the frames. Worse case, you can always simply build the P.o.B. ship and still have a nice model. 

[mtaylor]

If you haven't seen it, have look at the Trition Cross Section or full build here:   https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/forum/52-hms-triton-28-gun-frigate/  

[druxey]

You have a load of suggestions already, but I'll add two cents anyway. If you want to build models that have the appearance of POF, many of the above such as the Cheerful kit will be great. However, if you want to understand actual prototype framed construction, may I suggest you look at Admiralty Models' Echo cross-section offering? It' s good way to ease into this type of model. (Link to AM is on the home page, right side.)

 

Welcome to this merry band of modelers!

[jhearl]

One thing to be aware of with POF is that there are different methods for making frames. The Hahn method is somewhat simplified and less historically accurate  compared to the way the Echo cross section frames are built. (Neither is simple!) So that may color your decision. I started Hannah as my first POF model many years ago but never finished it. Not because it was too hard - I just lost interest altogether. I purchased my plans from Mr. Hahn back then and used his book along with advise from a fellow modeler. It was difficult, but not overwhelmingly so. I documented my experience on my website in case you're interested - http://modelboatyard.com/hannah.html

 

Cheers -

John

[clifforddward]

A big thank you to everyone for your comments...all very helpful.  Over the weekend after studying the Echo Cross Section, a couple of Hahn builds, and several other POF options, I decided to start with the Echo Cross Section for exactly the reasons John stated in his email just above.  

 

I am most interested in learning about and mimicking full size prototype practices for my first POF model.  I believe the Admiralty Models Echo cross section project represents my best "guided" option to learn on this first POF construction build.

 

I've been in touch and have both the base kit and fitting out kit on order.  There is a 4-6 week backup on the fitting out kit, and since I'm having Greg ship both together to save shipping I'll spend this short wait finishing up some "honey do" projects around the house and be ready to dive in later next month.

 

For now I'm joining the forum carving group project so that will keep me busy in the mean time.

 

All the best,

Cliff