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Is there a true POF kit in the market?


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Best one to answer that is Chuck - he probably knows who the builder was, too.......I believe they have pirated the plans from the ANCRE monograph by Boudriot and Berti and made a kit from it.....whole can of worms there..........don't know why someone hasn't done that before, my best guess would be cost - if you have to pay people living wages to do it, it's going to cost about double or more than that, plus royalties to the original author/s.   Admiralty models has true POF and Lumberyard's Oneida gunboat, I believe - been a long time since I've looked last - Chuck will know a lot more about this.  Steve M

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Just rechecked Lumberyard - Oneida is a brig and they are selling most of it laser cut, I would contact them if you're interested.  They also have the aforementioned 3 masted ships, but the website says laser cut keel and deck beams, with the rest being some sort of wood package.  Check it out http://www.dlumberyard.com/oneida-photos.html

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Not really any out there.  Basically there is little demand but,  in order to design them there needs to be hundreds if not thousands of hours of work.   There are plenty of plans which have already been researched by renowned modelers and naval historians.    They include the drawn frames and frame parts etc. But they never had the desire to go into the kit business.  It would be very easy for a legit kit maker to reach out to these authors and pay them a royalty for their work.   But it would push up the cost for the eventual kits which are already expensive.  The Chinese, unlike the companies with ethics never reach out to these authors and that is why you see versions of Ancre Kits on the market from them but nowhere else.   Just because there was never a kit doesnt mean the company can use the plans and research from an individual without paying them or even asking for permission.

 

I couldnt afford to pay Ancre a royalty would love to produce a kit of their projects....or possibly one of AlexM's designs or even Admiralty models or even Harold Hahn's son.   I would love to make a kit of EdT's clipper project.  But its too expensive if you do it on the up and up and recognize the author's contribution and creation.   What cost $1000 in China would cost $2500 made anywhere else.  Those Hahn kits are verbatim copies of of the plans he created.  I suspect you will see all of the aforementioned projects at some point available from China.  

 

That being said, I am hopeful Greg and David at Admiralty and Syren will reach some sort of agreement in the near future to produce an actual legitimate square rigged POF model kit.   I will talk to them very soon about it.   Speedwell look like a wonderful project.   All they could say is no....it doesnt hurt to ask.

 

 

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Querido Ulises, what they mean by 1/4 and 1/8 is the scale, in these cases 1/4 inch and 1/8 inch to the foot - 1/48 scale and 1/96 scale respectively, to find out what's included in their offering you will have to contact them - I'm very interested in seeing what may come of what Chuck is doing.......................Esteban M

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15 minutes ago, Mumin said:

Hachette in Italy just anounced partwork "La Belle 1684":

 

http://www.costruiscilabelle.it/ 
 

if I understand correctly, "tecnica dell'arsenale" means "admiralty model"

... that looks fairly impressive! Is there an English version for the site offering more information?

 

JP

 

 

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Ulises, 

The Lumberyard offering is basically a timbering set for the hull.  No masting, etc.  However, with the Hahn plans and some research, they do make nice models.  My Licorne is from the Hahn plans but I ordered a timbering set (wood only, no laser cut) from the Lumberyard just for the wood.  I did re-scale the Hahn plans as they weren't the size I wanted to build.  

 

BTW, I think it's Blue Jacket that has a POF kit but it's not one of the larger ships... 

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Hi Ulises:

 

I initially looked for a kit when I wanted to dive into building a POF ship model...after a short search and discovering the multitude of options available by starting with plans (with related book) it became a simple choice for me to pass on obtaining a kit and just acquire the needed components on my own. 

 

I am starting my POF experience with an Echo Cross Section build using the kit from Admiralty Models...that kit consists primarily of milled wood, plans and a set of detailed build instructions.  There are a number of full frame models where the same plans/build book would be available, and milled wood will be available from several sources.  Other needed components are likewise available from specialty suppliers.

 

All the best, do post a build log when you get started whatever direction you go...

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Thanks to all for your input. Appreciate the time you take to answer. Actually a POF build is a long time in the future project. Have some others to finish before, but, on the other hand, I am not getting any younger. Fortunately, once I move to my new home, I will have the space and time to work on two projects at a time. :) 

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On 19/07/2017 at 3:50 PM, Ulises Victoria said:

I saw a couple of interesting kits: The Alfred and the Oliver Cromwell.

I don't understand the scale measurements they give: 1/4 and 1/8. What do they mean?

It is not clear to me exactly what do you get when purchasing these kits.

1/4 is 1:48 scale.

Totally agree with you about "it is not clear what exactly do you get". Is it so hard to include some photos? Argh!

So hope this will help:

Oliver Cromwell is not really a kit - it is a laser cut jig, plans, wood sheets/strips, wood for frames, some laser cut parts.

Here is the content of the box:5972e46f0755d_Foto2014-07-04180107.thumb.jpg.64149c56a59d4cd03be821663c83c7af.jpg

5972e4741c61d_Foto2014-07-04180315.thumb.jpg.9868458da0826b635ddfd588b935b38e.jpg

5972e4778dff2_Foto2014-07-04180929.thumb.jpg.2c62510349947a648816fe0aac8e64e3.jpg

Ended up fully scratching it and not using the parts provided, for various reasons. You can read first few pages of my build log, if interested :)

 

To be honest, even if it is not a kit - I do not think it is very difficult. "Scratch building" is less scary than typically described, especially with lots of good logs on MSW that are better than any "practicums".

I was thinking about starting with Hannah or Oneida (with laser cut frames) - but decided that cleaning up all that laser char is less pleasant than just cutting the frames using bandsaw / scroll saw.

And I was really right about it! When I got that "timbering set" for Oliver Cromwell and tried to use the laser cut keel parts - cleaning up the char was a b%tch! It was not a fun process, and I hated every minute of it. I tried scraping it, sanding it, etc - takes a lot of efforts, it sits very deep into the pear wood, especially on the endgrain. You end up with very inaccurate parts after this, they do not fit together well enough. 

Way easier to just cut them out of the sheet of wood. Clean and no charring!

 

Let me know if you have any additional questions, would be great to have another Oliver Cromwell log here! Feel free to PM ;)

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With some effort, and if you're really unsure as to amount of wood, etc. like I was, give some thought to what I did.   Order the plans and then using a scanner or copier, scale them to the size you need.  I went up from 1:96 to 1:64 due to space limitations.  Then I ordered the wood for the Confederacy from the Lumberyard.  Yes... I had to get more wood due to mistakes and thus, rebuilds, but.. it got me going.  

 

The biggest stopping block I can see at this point to scratch building is "fear".  Fear that you can't do it or fear that you'll make a mess of it.  I scrapped my first try but the second build of the same model is coming along nicely.  

 

The only other issue is the tools.  There's some here using simple hand tools to cut and shape the wood.  Others of us have a full shop or a partial shop. 

 

I suggest taking the leap of faith and be prepared to surprise yourself.  It's very rewarding in the emotional sense to scratch build a ship you want to build instead of being at the mercy of the kit makers.

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My first attempt at model ship building 3 years ago was by scratch.  I had no idea what I was doing. I learned as I went. Yes, I made many mistake. Mostly with the rigging.   I am currently working on 2 kits. Mostly to learn more.  When I finish with them, I will go back to scratch build. It's easier than you think, and more rewarding.

IMG_3020 (2).JPG

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59 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

With some effort, and if you're really unsure as to amount of wood, etc. like I was, give some thought to what I did.   Order the plans and then using a scanner or copier, scale them to the size you need.  I went up from 1:96 to 1:64 due to space limitations.  Then I ordered the wood for the Confederacy from the Lumberyard.  Yes... I had to get more wood due to mistakes and thus, rebuilds, but.. it got me going.  

 

The biggest stopping block I can see at this point to scratch building is "fear".  Fear that you can't do it or fear that you'll make a mess of it.  I scrapped my first try but the second build of the same model is coming along nicely.  

 

The only other issue is the tools.  There's some here using simple hand tools to cut and shape the wood.  Others of us have a full shop or a partial shop. 

 

I suggest taking the leap of faith and be prepared to surprise yourself.  It's very rewarding in the emotional sense to scratch build a ship you want to build instead of being at the mercy of the kit makers.

Absolutely agree with you. I just hope I have enough life, steady hands and good eyes to do all I want to. Have some stuff in my stash already and I still want more. :)

Good thing I will have a proper workshop and time to work on more than a project at a time pretty soon ;)

 

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On 19/07/2017 at 6:16 PM, Mumin said:

Hachette in Italy just anounced partwork "La Belle 1684":

 

http://www.costruiscilabelle.it/ 
 

if I understand correctly, "tecnica dell'arsenale" means "admiralty model"

Looks to me they are using this as a basis for their model:

https://ancre.fr/en/monographies-en/30-monographie-de-la-belle-barque-1680.html?search_query=belle&results=10

Slainte

L.H.

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Looking at the Chinese models.  With prices running from $400 to well over a thousand dollars they are not cheap.  Wonder how many kits they are selling?   At a price point from $500 up how much demand is there and would it be enough to get a legit manufacture to introduce similar kits?

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On 19/07/2017 at 4:21 PM, Chuck said:

Not really any out there.  Basically there is little demand but,  in order to design them there needs to be hundreds if not thousands of hours of work.   There are plenty of plans which have already been researched by renowned modelers and naval historians.    They include the drawn frames and frame parts etc. But they never had the desire to go into the kit business.  It would be very easy for a legit kit maker to reach out to these authors and pay them a royalty for their work.   But it would push up the cost for the eventual kits which are already expensive.  The Chinese, unlike the companies with ethics never reach out to these authors and that is why you see versions of Ancre Kits on the market from them but nowhere else.   Just because there was never a kit doesnt mean the company can use the plans and research from an individual without paying them or even asking for permission.

 

I couldnt afford to pay Ancre a royalty would love to produce a kit of their projects....or possibly one of AlexM's designs or even Admiralty models or even Harold Hahn's son.   I would love to make a kit of EdT's clipper project.  But its too expensive if you do it on the up and up and recognize the author's contribution and creation.   What cost $1000 in China would cost $2500 made anywhere else.  Those Hahn kits are verbatim copies of of the plans he created.  I suspect you will see all of the aforementioned projects at some point available from China.  

 

That being said, I am hopeful Greg and David at Admiralty and Syren will reach some sort of agreement in the near future to produce an actual legitimate square rigged POF model kit.   I will talk to them very soon about it.   Speedwell look like a wonderful project.   All they could say is no....it doesnt hurt to ask.

 

 

Why not upgrading an existing model:  I mean the model Shipways Flying Fish, a beautiful ship, and a potentially beautiful model, but rarely finished! (Probably because the kit is not quite up to modern standards)

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