HMS Tiger 1747 by Siggi52 - 1:48 - 60 gun ship from NMM plans

[druxey]

Very nicely made, but are they mounted too high above the deck?

[Siggi52]

Hello Druxey,

the elm-tree pumps are for the upper gun deck and I made them also a little longer. Better then a little shorter 😇

[druxey]

Ah! That explains everything. Thank you, Siggi!

[Siggi52]

Hello,

I'm sorry that I did't mention that the elm-tree pumps at the moment are not to be permanent installed. This morning I gave them a coat of lacquer and after that they went to a save place.

 

But I have a question about the standards used in a ship. In the 1719 establishment list is there something unclear, or I did't understand it.

All I could find about this, I found in Goodwin's Constructions and fitting...., and what he writes there (at page 108-109) is even more confusing:

By the end of the third quarter of the eighteenth century the number of standards had been reduced, and they where found only on lower decks.

 

Falconer describe them short, and at his plate VII you could see one. Lavery in his Ship of the Lines II, only mention them. In his Bellona book he has a picture with lots of standards at both gun decks, Page 46, B27. I think it's the Berwick plan from 1775.

 

Because in the 1745 establishment list they did't deal with such things, I have to look in the 1719 list. There I found this about the beams

 

 

and for the Gun Deck this

 

and here for the Upper Gun Deck

 

Far to the right you found what is for the 60 gunners. They listed for the gun deck 2 pairs of standards, one of them from iron! For the upper gun deck 3 pairs, none of iron. So at least I did't know what to do. In 1775 a 70 (?) gunner has 9 pairs of standards at the gun deck and a 70 gunner up to 1760 only 3 pairs? And Goodwin wrote that they reduced them. 

[garyshipwright]

Hi Siggi. Question, does it say where these standards are located? I am looking for a answer but so far have not come up with a answer for you. Will be back? Gary

[Siggi52]

Hello Gary,

the standards are at every side of the ship and there normally in the middle where the ship is strait. At the picture from Falconer they are behind the cannons. „ F“ for the lower cannon. And then between the cannons at every second beam.

 

[garyshipwright]

Siggi one of the contract's I have, time frame wise ,1770 and also used in 1775 says that the gun deck and upper deck had 11 per side. I looked for the number of standard's in a couple of books, for your time frame but could not find the number,  other then the number of them in your post. My reason for the question was if there is only two standards on the gun deck per side where would that placement be. Maybe as you said in the middle of the deck.  It does say the iron ones on the  upper deck were place under the forecastle and quarter deck but still doesn't say where. I added a picture showing the ones on my gun deck. It may come down to, she didn't have many, just what the establishments said. Siggi I was able to go back, contract wise to 1755 to the 74 gun ship Warspite and it said that there was 13 standards per side on the Gun/Upper deck. Then I went forward to 1763 to the Marlborough and seems to have been reduced down to 11per side per deck. I wonder if any one has contracts that takes us back even further. Sort of like a time machine.

Ggary 

Edited October 28, 2020 by garyshipwright

[Siggi52]

Many thanks Gary,

for my Dragon I build them also like you have build yours. 

 

But now there should be only 2 pairs of standards at the gun deck. Ok, I think that would't be a problem, I do not build them. At least you would't see them. The question is , how would the iron version look like? 

 

But for the upper gun deck I think I should build them. As always is here the plan for the Dorsetshire (1757) a great source. 

Where I made the brown arrows I think that that are the standards. But what are these things behind them, (blue arrow) cleats? Like this at the Medway? Or did they bore holes through the standards and set them in? Just some round peaces of wood. 

So with only 3 pairs of standards I have the choice to set them evenly in the middle of the waist. If someone has more information about that, you are welcome. At the moment I have to make decisions only for the gun deck.

 

This is the gun deck of the Dorsetshire. Here are some standards thinner then the other. Are that the iron one? 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Siggi52

[Siggi52]

Hello,

it seams so, that this is not a theme of much interest or knowledge. Yesterday and today I searched more about the list's of establishments. The 1719 list is the most complete list with two modifications who deal only with the length and breath of the ships. Also the list of 1745 and her modifications, deal only with the dimensions of the ships, not with the interior.

 

When I looked at the information about the Dorsetshire (1757) I learned, that she was build to the 1745 list of establishment, as a 70 gunner but carried only 64 guns. Interesting is, that the master shipwright was Peirson Lock of Portsmouth. The Tiger was build at the shipyard of Thomas Stanton & Wells, Rotherhithe. But the plan was made by a John Lock, Woolwich, later master shipwright at Chatham.

 

That all brought me to the result to use the plan of the Dorsetshire as a reference for the Tiger. She was build 28 years after 1719, but only 10 years before the Dorsetshire. May be it was right in 1719 to have only 2 pairs of standards at the gun deck. But that did't tell us, that the shipwrights saw it the same way. They had a lot of freedom in those days. All plans of the sister ships of the Tiger looked a little different. 

 

So, there is a lot of work in front of me. But because we have the next month a partial look down, it would be ok. All is better then building gun ports 😉

[FriedClams]

Beautiful work Siggi.  I very much like the pumps and I am always impressed with your crew figures - extraordinarily fine, especially at 1:48.

 

Gary

[Siggi52]

Many thanks, Gary

[Siggi52]

Hello,

 

it is done, the standards for the gun deck are in place and also the scuppers are bored and painted.

 

As next I would build the beams for the upper gun deck. I would't install them permanent, but I would have as much done at the gun deck as I can, before starting and finishing the outside of the hull. 

 

 

 

[Siggi52]

Hello,

and many thanks for your likes.

 

Today the carpenters where extremely busy. They build all the beams who are made from one peace of wood.

 

 

This ship is smaller and has lower decks. Here you can see the beams are only 5f 11,5in above the deck.

 

[Hubac's Historian]

Beautiful work, Siggi!

[Siggi52]

Hello,

 

today the carpenters build the step for the bowsprit and the manger. The painter painted it afterwards. I think, he has to wait until the paint dries to get out there 😁

The next thing would be to build the cabins for the gunner and his neighbour in the back of the ship.

 

 

 

[Siggi52]

Hello,

 

this time only a short update. The crew finished the cabins at the stern and the knees for the transom. The tiller is also in the raw ready.

so the next time the crew has to build the rest of the beams. 

 

 

 

[Keith Black]

If your crew stopped all those impromptu meetings they'ed get a lot more done.   But I must say, what they're doing is beautiful. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Keith Black

[Siggi52]

Hello and many thanks for your comments and likes

 

the last week I was not very busy at the shipyard but I got the tiller and most of it's components finished. The sweep, flush with the beams, as the 1719 establishment asked for.

 

 

And here all parts are together, and it works! 😅 I don't think to build also the ledges here, most of this you would't see when the ship is ready.

 

 

 

 

 

So far, so good but how to get the ropes up? The wheels are behind the mizzen mast, so I should have the sheaves direkt behind the beam. In the middle of the beam is a carling and I could build between this and the next carlings to the outside diagonal carlings with the sheaves in the middle (blue line), or build like the French there a block with the sheaves and support it with the carling. At least is this the same as at the side of the ship. I don't know, but prefer the last method.

 

 

[Siggi52]

Hello,

 

now the Rudder is ready. Because there was no protest or other solutions, I build it the way I think it is right. At least it's not an unknown praxis.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Siggi52

[Jeronimo]

Hi Siggi,

 

dein kleines Video (Ruder2.mow)

sehr gut.

 

regards

Karl

[Siggi52]

Hello,

and many thanks for your comments and likes.

Today was a great day, because we laid all beams of the upper gun deck. The shipwright was very pleased, and spend a brandy! 😊

 

 

 

From the ropewalk came the anchor cable. For this I used dark brown yarn, but made also an experiment and tarring a cable. That looks very interesting. That tar diluted with benzine is now dry, that one diluted with turpentine is still sticky. But they are both black now, as at the contemporary models.

 

 

 

 

[Siggi52]

Hello,

today only a small update. Because some of the beams where to high, I had to level them all to the right high. The shipwright is now testing the elm-tree pump and also with the cannons seams to be all ok.

The next thing to build are the carlings for all those beams. 😟

 

 

 

[Siggi52]

Hello,

 

today only a short update. I turned the pillars for the gun deck. They are all turned manually.

 

[Siggi52]

Hello, and many thanks for your likes

today is a great day, the chain pumps are ready. Even the man from the admiralty came to watch it. Ok, there is no water in the ship, so we could't test it working.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Seahawk1313]

I love your work.  Your ongoing  story line with the workers is great fun.  I enjoy watching your ship come together.  Excellent work! - Hal

[Siggi52]

Hello, and many thanks for all the likes and comments

today only a short update, the carpenters installed the pillars aft. The man from the admiralty spend rum for a grog, so it's not so much work today.

Is it over there also so wet and cold? I do not like this weather, but until May I think it would't be better.

 

[bruce d]

Siggi, I really like what you are doing.

And yes, it sounds like we have the same weather here.

Keep up the good work!

[Sea Hoss]

Beautiful workmanship! Yes, windy and wet here in the northeast.

[Mark P]

Good Evening Siggi;

 

Some very nice work on your Tiger, as always. I read through the discussion above concerning standards, and I can add a bit of info to help with some of the queries posted there.

 

The contract for Warspite, 70 guns, dated 1665, specifies six pairs of standards on the gun-deck. 

 

The contract for re-building the Warspite, 66 guns, dated 1701, specifies seven pairs of standards on the gun-deck. 

 

The contract for Warspite, 74 guns, dated 1755, specifies eleven pairs of standards on the gun-deck. 

 

It would appear that as ships grew longer, the number of standards increased. One important point to note is that in all cases the standards are not laid directly onto the deck, but have separate boards under them, called 'shoals'. These are a few inches wider and longer than the standard itself. In 1665 the shoals are two inches thick; in 1701 they are three and a half inches thick; in 1755 they are three inches thick. 

 

The Dorsetshire draught standards have pins through them, as you surmised. Think of them as horizontal belaying pins. I have seen them on contemporary models, and they are parallel-sided bars, not classic belaying pin shapes; presumably because they were fixed in position permanently.

 

The shoals stopped short of the waterways, to allow the water to run through, and the bottom corner of the standard was often cut away at forty-five degrees, to allow the same thing. 

 

Keep up the great work!

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

 

 

[druxey]

'Shoal' was a variant of the word 'sole' which, if you think about it, makes perfect sense in this context!