HMS Bellona 1760 by SJSoane - Scale 1:64 - English 74-gun - as designed

[Kurt Johnson]

Mark,

 

Micro-Mark sells them in 2 different lengths.

 

Kurt

[Navydoc]

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/clamps/bar/31169-miniature-brass-bar-clamps

[mtaylor]

Yeow..... I just priced the ones at MicroMark and at Leevalley.  The price seems to have gone up quite a lot since I bought mine.  Still... they are worth the money to buy or the time to make them.  

[SJSoane]

Thanks, Navydoc, that is a better price at Lee Valley. And Mark, I entirely agree with your observation. I was shocked to see how expensive they are now. I just don't remember paying anywhere near that much a few years ago. Maybe the secret of their true value to modelers has been discovered, driving up demand!🙂

 

Mark

[SJSoane]

I started on the first row of 4" planking above the black strake, a moment long time in the coming. I also figured out a way to get more even pressure on the planking clamp at the bow, where it will really show if this gets twisted. I abandoned the soft metal jaw, and substituted a piece of wood bearing against a piece of wood above that is the same thickness as the plank. Perfectly even pressure.

And while I was working in this area, I discovered a big and embarrassing mistake. In the spirit of full disclosure to all of you who have followed me through all my trials and tribulations with lots of support, I was looking through my magnifying lens at the clamp job, and suddenly noticed that the wood at the hawse holes was not boxwood. I accidentally fashioned these out of hard maple!

 

I confess for just a moment I thought maybe I could ignore this, but then realized that it will not darken along with the surrounding boxwood over time. You can see the difference between the wales, which are recently sanded, and the frames below, which have been exposed to the air for many years. Busted!

 

So, I will have to pare down the face of the hawse piece, and glue on a thin veneer of boxwood. The edges will be covered by the cheeks above and below, so it should be invisible.

 

Indeed, if I had built this as in the original, I would have had a thin veneer like this over the tops of the planking anyway. This will teach me for getting too clever. Indeed, I can assume that the shipwright gods are getting vengeance for me taking a shortcut earlier.

 

The funny thing is, I always had a vague feeling of something not quite right when I made these, like the feeling you get when you are about to do something stupid and dangerous at at table saw. Not as threatening to my physical well-being, but in the end humbling to my mental well-being. Always pay attention to those birdies on your shoulder, talking to you about your intended actions!

 

Mark

 

 

 

[dvm27]

Had you thought of debonding the piece with isopropyl and replacing? Paring that piece back around the curve to a uniform thickness could prove challenging. But then again the new surface would be hidden by the cheeks anyway so perhaps it doesn't have to be perfect.

[Hubac's Historian]

Well, the maple will patinate to a nice golden color over time.

This picture frame was bright white when I made it 10 years ago, but it turned this color within 4-5 years.  The oil darkened it a little, at first, but not much.

[druxey]

We feel your pain, Mark... It's going to be an awkward fix. Good luck with it.

 

 

[SJSoane]

Thanks, Greg, Marc and druxey,

 

Good moral and practical support in times of trouble is one of the many great things about this website.

 

I am reviewing this again in the cold light of morning. It really does stand out as different wood now I look at it again, and in a prominent place. So it will have to be fixed.

 

The first step is to review again just how thick this piece should be, when it is all said and done. Now that I am potentially building it as it would have been built, the thickness becomes more interesting to explore.

 

Peter Goodwin's The Construction and Fittings of the English Man of War shows on page 179 how the lining at the hawse hole fays onto the face of the planking beneath:

And in the 2nd model of the Bellona, we see that this lining is thicker than the black strake, because it sits over it, but it looks to me no thicker than, or just a little thicker than, the wale below. 

If it were exactly the thickness of the wale, this would make the lining  2" thick where it fays onto the black strake, 4 ½" where it fays onto the 4" planking above.

2" seems rather thin at this exposed position; perhaps it is an inch or so thicker than the wale? It is hard for me to see in this photo. It can't be too much thicker, because the bolster has to sit on its face and still be just thinner than the cheek below.

 

Right now, I have made it flush with the wale:

If I increase its thickness by just one inch, I only have to thin down the existing piece by 1/64" (1" in my scale), and add a veneer that is 1/32" (2" in my scale). Seems possible with a fine file! And as Greg pointed out, the veneer does not have to fit perfectly to the underlying surface, because we can never see the edges that will be hidden under the cheeks.

 

So, out comes the file...

 

Mark

 

[druxey]

Relate the thickness to the width of the cheek side arm (its moulded way) below it. That may be more a reliable guide.

[SJSoane]

Thanks, druxey, that idea helped me re-think how to do this repair and move forward.

 

I pared down the offending wood, and made a veneer. But I realized that the lower edge of the veneer wants to fay very closely to the lower cheek. And so I decided to make the lower cheek first. Then I can fit the veneer to it.

 

The lower cheek is a seriously complex and subtle piece of wood. It looks so simple in the Bellona model. But it 1) fays to the face of the wales at the bow, which are both curving and changing angle to the horizontal as they sweep around; 2) fays to the tapered side of the knee of the head, with an angled notch for the stem; 3) curves to match the upper top of the wale; 4) tapers in vertical height from the aft most edge to the foremost edge; 5) curves up in the foremost segment to match the geometry of the head rails. Goodwin describes this as compass wood. It would have been an amazing find in the forest, I can now see.

 

This was an entire day of filing, checking high points with graphite paper, filing, checking, filing, checking.... I got a good fit to the wales and the knee of the head, and started thinning in the sided dimension. After 6 hours of fitting, I decided to leave the final shaping of the lower and fore edges for tomorrow, when I can see it fresh and not screw up.

 

I can also check the size of the bolster for the anchor cables, to confirm how thick the veneer needs to be when finished.

 

So I guess my mistake on the wood was a blessing in disguise. This is going to be a much better fit of the hawse area than I had previously achieved.

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

[druxey]

Glad it's working out, Mark. My first attempts at making cheeks took forever with serious scrapbox contributions. Each subsequent set has become easier and quicker to make. I hope that's of some consolation!

[SJSoane]

I was trying to think of a cheeky comment, but couldn't come up with anything....🙂

[SJSoane]

I thought I would be a lot faster on the second lower cheek. I was, 5 ¾ hours for the port side instead of 6 hours for the starboard. But that included trimming down the maple hawse piece, which was not included in the 6 hours the day before. I am glad I speed up with practice....🙂

 

 

Next, trimming these down to final size.

 

I am going to have to face the challenge of cutting a moulded edge on these. I saw a nice video from this site (Kevin Kenny) 

which uses an emory grinding wheel in a lathe to cut an exacto blade for the cutter. This avoids having to soften and then reharden the cutter metal. But my emory grinding wheel is too wide to the make the moulding below, so I will have to use fine files. And I assume these will not cut an exacto blade.

 

So, can anyone point me to a video or good tutorial on how to soften and then re-harden metal in a home workshop? The oil bath quenching in particular has me baffled; what kind of a container, what kind of oil?

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by SJSoane

[paulsutcliffe]

Hi Mark

I use a diamond wheel in the dremel to cut a hacksaw blades and or razor blades to shape profile cutters

[druxey]

Mark: I soften old hacksaw blades by heating cherry red (propane torch) and air cooling. I use escapement files and razor saw to cut the profiles I need. I don't worry about re-hardening and tempering. The softer steel cuts well and stays sharp enough for a long time. (This is on Castello.)  If I do need to touch up the cutter, I simply stone it flat. Easy!

Edited October 15, 2019 by druxey

[SJSoane]

Thanks, druxey, I will try it.

 

I spent a good part of the day trying to make a cutter out of an exacto knife blade, using an emory cutoff disk in my lathe. It worked well, until I was unable to round the non-cutting edges. No file I have could cut that hardened metal. And without the rounded non-cutting edges, the whole thing cut into the wood. Not a pretty sight. Paul, any insights into how to file the edges of the hardened metal?

 

druxey, do you happen to have an image of the wooden holder you use? I have seen some examples using an exacto knife handle; but this means one hand is controlling the cut from the side, whereas I am going to need both hands on top to control adjusting to the diminishing thickness of the edge needing a moulding.

 

Mark

[davyboy]

Hi Mark,

 

When I made a 90° scraper from a Stanley blade to cut the rebate on my current build I did the following. On the non cutting edges I used a small 1000 grit sharpening stone to round them down. Worked a treat,no marks on the keel.  

 

Dave 

[SJSoane]

Thanks, Dave, for pointing me to the sharpening stone idea.

 

As it turned out, I did not have much luck with heating a piece of old hacksaw blade to cherry red. I Just couldn't get it hot enough with my small butane torch.

So I went back to the exacto knife blade, and discovered that I could get that to cherry red. And then it was easy to file. I ground down the old edge so I would not accidentally cut myself.

 

After a few failures at hand filing, I put the blade in my Sherline mill, and cut down the rectangular profile with a flat bottom cutter, and then used a ball end cutter to cut the big curve in the center of the moulding. I then used a tiny round jeweler's file to cut the side rounds. that kept everything square and even.

 

Thinking of Dave's idea, I then flattened both sides of the blade on my waterstones, which seems to have created a good, sharp edge.

 

So, one more skill acquired! Thanks, everyone, for your help and advice. I have read and thought about this for 25 years, and now see how relatively simple it is, once you work out a few technical details that don't make sense until you try them.

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark

 

 

[SJSoane]

After thinking about the hawse liner again, I decided to do it right, and trim the old maple piece down as if it were the planks coming to the bow:

Then I could make the hawse liner as it was actually constructed, a thick piece with a rabbet in the lower edge for the thicker black strake to come through. I will overlap it a tiny bit onto the ends of the real planks, for a clean connection. The final shaping of this hawse liner, including the fit to the cheek below, will await the installation of the cheeks themselves.

 

I should have done it right like this the first time. Does one ever learn that shortcuts hardly ever turn out to be shortcuts? 🙂

 

Mark

 

 

 

[druxey]

I don't use a scraper holder at all, Mark. The length of hacksaw blade (teeth filed off!) is held in both hands like a spokeshave. You have much better control than the X-Acto blade in a handle approach. I also (where feasible) rubber cement the strip of molding to be shaped down on a backing board. This acts as a depth stop as well as securing the part. 

[Hubac's Historian]

I am enjoying this discussion of moulding scrapers very much, as I had many of the same questions in mind.  I’m just about at the point where I’m going to need to do this myself.  The mouldings look terrific, Mark!

Edited October 18, 2019 by Hubac's Historian

[John Cheevers]

Mark,

 

I love your last comment on making the scraper. I've been telling the boys this very thing about new skills for years.

On 10/16/2019 at 6:05 PM, SJSoane said:

o, one more skill acquired! Thanks, everyone, for your help and advice. I have read and thought about this for 25 years, and now see how relatively simple it is, once you work out a few technical details that don't make sense until you try them.

 

It's gratifying to see the smile and look of satisfaction on the faces of other modelers when they finally try a technique and discover exactly what you said.

 

John 

[SJSoane]

Thank you, druxey, Marc and John, for your comments.

 

It is an interesting process, the initial learning of a new skill. In the old apprenticeship system, someone who already possesses the skill gives the apprentice the right tools and demonstrates how it is done, and then the apprentice gives it a try. The master then corrects, and the apprentice tries again. The apprentice starts into this with the right tools and also knowing that it can be done, because he/she has just seen it done. The apprentice also knows what standard to aspire to, because a good example is there to see.

 

But when we try to learn a new skill without this guidance, it means a lot of additional uncertainties come into play. Do I have the right tool or material? How red is "cherry red" for heat? How hard should I press the cutter, at what angle? We have to do a lot of trial and error, to see what happens. If some good results come out, we are rewarded and keep going.

 

But if things don't go well, then a thousand doubts can come into one's head. Was it the wrong material? Wrong tool? Wrong technique? Too many of these doubts floating around in one's head can easily make this look like a tall mountain to climb. This is made worse by the fear of wasting time or materials on a failure.

 

The biggest challenge for me, as I get older, is that these questions and doubts start coming before I even start, causing me to procrastinate. If just I read a little more, thought about it a little more...

 

And, of course, the answer to this is to just jump in and make mistakes! Trying, failing, adjusting, and trying again is how skills are learned. So I get past the procrastination by saying to myself, "for heaven's sake, just try it and let's see what happens". Once I get going, the natural process for learning a skill kicks in.

 

And, of course, this essay on skill acquisition was a way of procrastinating on starting to make the second hawse liner this morning!

 

Mark

[AON]

Well stated.

[mtaylor]

I quite agree with Alan.  I feel that MSW is a replacement of sorts for the "apprenticeship" .  We may not have a master sitting across the room, but they are here and big help at acquiring skills.

[noel_colledge]

Although I can't disagree with you about your comments on apprenticeships Mark, I also think that necessity is the mother of invention. Too many times when asked why something is done the way it is, they answer is Because that's the way it has always been done. 

 

Sometimes a different approach is all that is needed to improve a process, there are lots of different skills on this forum which makes the sharing of knowledge possible. After all an apprenticeship with one master does not mean that another will do it the same way, but the end result can be the same.

 

We can see this by all the different ship build methods in a particular era by different yards or countries to achieve the same results.

 

So long as you learn by mistakes the apprentice eventually becomes the master regardless of the approach.

[allanyed]

One other way to make moldings/rails scrapers.  I like to use stiff backed razors, shaped as mentioned above with thin grinding wheels set up on my lathe or can be done with a Dremel or similar rotary tool.   I make them as needed and save them for future use.  I never found a problem with any shape or size.   If small, several shapes can be cut into one blade. 

Allan

[SJSoane]

Thanks, Alan, Mark, and Noel, for the comments about learning skills. This website is indeed the best thing we will ever have if we can't have a formal apprenticeship.

 

Noel, I entirely agree with your thoughts about this. Even though most skills through most of time were acquired through some version of an apprenticeship system, whether formal or informal, the learner eventually became the teacher. And through constant use, and in the face of new challenges, the skills evolved  into new directions. This is why we see throughout history a steady evolution of ideas and techniques, sometimes punctuated by revolutionary ideas.

 

I think a good metaphor is how one acquires the language skill. One first mimics people already skilled in the language, until eventually the syntax and a base vocabulary become internalized. And then it is possible to say new things never heard before.

 

Allan, so did you free-hand hold the Dremel grinder when making the curved sections. Very impressive!

 

Mark

 

 

[druxey]

With all due respect to Allan, I still prefer the rigidity provided by a hacksaw blade myself.