USS Tennessee 1869 by Keith Black - scale 1:120 - Wood Hull Screw Frigate - ex Madawaska 1865

[wefalck]

Just wondering, whether it wouldn't be easier to put the stanchions on first and then push them down into their holes one by one. Some stiff steel or molybdenum wire might help as well.

[Keith Black]

 Eberhard, I tried that and it was impossible for me to do it that way. I'd get two eyes in the holes and in placing the third one the first one would pop out. I tried it enough times to know that for me, it didn't work but I appreciate the suggestion very much. 

[Will Ferris]

Great looking work Sir!  That would drive me nuts too!  Do you have some kind of magnifying device?  They're tiny!

[rwiederrich]

On 5/1/2021 at 11:20 AM, Keith Black said:

 Eberhard, I tried that and it was impossible for me to do it that way. I'd get two eyes in the holes and in placing the third one the first one would pop out. I tried it enough times to know that for me, it didn't work but I appreciate the suggestion very much. 

You are progressing so nicely Keith...she looks great.

May I suggest you simply glue the bolts to the stay first....then mark out the holes and drill them in the yard.  Then place the entire jackstay and bolt assembly into their holes and glue?   Just mark their locations on the stay...let them hang by gravity and the place a drop of glue.  Once they are all afixed.....mark the holes..drill and place......

[Kevin]

very nice keith

[Keith S]

Keith, will you be putting studding-sail booms on your model? The reason I'm asking is that I want to put jackstays on the "Terror" but I also want to put stun's'l irons on her as well. I can't find any pictures of how the two interact/interfere with one another on the same yard. I'm hoping your model will have both so I can copy what you did.

😏

[Keith Black]

 Pat, Brian, Gary, MCB, Will, Rob, and Kevin, thank you for your supportive comments and kind words. Thank you to all for visiting and for the likes. 

 

 I stopped whining about the jackstays and got on with it, now all spars have their jackstays installed. One thing that helped was, I increased the drill size by a thousandth which made inserting the eye pin shanks easier. I also developed a rhythm by having all pieces necessary for each spar made ready to place when work commenced. In other words, I tried working smarter and it helped. 

 

 No photos till all the spars are have the foot rope stirrups installed, (installing them is like working with 2x4's after the jackstay eyebolts) spars painted, and the foot ropes run. 

 

 

On 5/3/2021 at 8:23 AM, rwiederrich said:

May I suggest you simply glue the bolts to the stay first....then mark out the holes and drill them in the yard.  Then place the entire jackstay and bolt assembly into their holes and glue?   Just mark their locations on the stay...let them hang by gravity and the place a drop of glue.  Once they are all afixed.....mark the holes..drill and place......

 

 Rob, I thought about this approach at length. One would have to support the wire at both ends on a third hand with all the eye pins strung. Then each eye pin would have to be weighted to hang straight down and not rise up when CA was applied or the tiny things would be drawn to the CA like a magnet. Spacing wouldn't be critical as long as you marked each correctly. An advantage would be that the holes could be oversized. Should I ever do this again at 1:120 I might try this method. Thank you for the suggestion.   

 

 

On 5/3/2021 at 1:49 AM, Will Ferris said:

Do you have some kind of magnifying device?  They're tiny!

 

 Will, I currently depend on my reading glasses. I need to get off my lazy duff and order a OptiVisor per Gary's suggestion. 

 

 Speaking of Gary, thank for the gentle push.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Keith Black

[Keith Black]

4 hours ago, Keith S said:

Keith, will you be putting studding-sail booms on your model? The reason I'm asking is that I want to put jackstays on the "Terror" but I also want to put stun's'l irons on her as well. I can't find any pictures of how the two interact/interfere with one another on the same yard. I'm hoping your model will have both so I can copy what you did.

 

 Keith, I have no photographic evidence that the Tennessee employed studding sail booms so I'll not be adding them. But because of the way they're employed I don't see that there would be interference with the jackstays. Those more knowledgeable than I need to speak to this matter. 

 

[BANYAN]

Keith, I am researching the studdingsail booms for Victoria at the moment.  For ships of the era we are both interested in/building, the various authors all suggest that it was usual to have the swing booms fitted to the fore-end, and parallel with the fore-channel (not common to carry a lower studdingsail on the main).   A crane (chesstree with a hinged metal bracket) was fitted on the hull near the end of the boom such that when swung in/aft, it securely held the boom parallel with, and out the same distance from the hull as, the channel.   In Victoria, this is evident in the profile photo I have of her which shows a gooseneck fitted on her inner boom end.  The cranked gooseneck seated in a lug fitted on the fore part of the fore channel.  Even if Tennessee did not carry studdingsails, she probably had the boom fitted as a boat boom anyway?  She then would have a fore and after guy, topping lift and associated lizard, and rope ladders, painters etc on the boom (only when in use).

 

Hope this is of some value?

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Keith S]

1 hour ago, BANYAN said:

Keith, I am researching the studdingsail booms for Victoria at the moment.  For ships of the era we are both interested in/building, the various authors all suggest that it was usual to have the swing booms fitted to the fore-end, and parallel with the fore-channel (not common to carry a lower studdingsail on the main).   A crane (chesstree with a hinged metal bracket) was fitted on the hull near the end of the boom such that when swung in/aft, it securely held the boom parallel with, and out the same distance from the hull as, the channel.   In Victoria, this is evident in the profile photo I have of her which shows a gooseneck fitted on her inner boom end.  The cranked gooseneck seated in a lug fitted on the fore part of the fore channel.  Even if Tennessee did not carry studdingsails, she probably had the boom fitted as a boat boom anyway?  She then would have a fore and after guy, topping lift and associated lizard, and rope ladders, painters etc on the boom (only when in use).

 

Hope this is of some value?

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

Keith and Pat, I was probably using the wrong word to describe what I meant. I was talking about the part of the studding-sail apparatus that sits on top of the yard itself, in the little iron holders. It seems as though when the sail is not in use, the upper part slides inboard and lies on the yard. I was wondering how the jackstay sat with respect to this spar- whether it sits in front of it or under it. 

 

However, if the Tennessee didn't have 'em, there's something you don't need to worry about!

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Keith S

[Keith Black]

 Keith, see the drawing in post #278. That boom (if this is the one you're talking about) is level with the spar per photos of the Tennessee. I've seen that boom modeled on the top side of the spar which doesn't make sense to me but I have a steep learning curve ahead of me. The Tennessee does have those booms on the main and fore lower yards which I've modeled see post #243 and 257. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Keith Black

[Keith S]

I'm not actually sure how it all works myself. The little dangly spar seems superfluous to me, but you see the thing it's dangling FROM slides in and out on the main yard, supported by those rings that it sits in. I definitely want to put jackstays on my model, because fairly accurate drawings of the ship show its sails furled ABOVE the mast, which is appropriate for the era, like your ship. Anyway I'm so far from being ready to mount yards on my model, I am pretty sure I have at least a year to worry about it! I do not work fast. 

 

EDIT: Actually, the information was there all along. In post #243 and 257 I see the spars I'm talking about, and I see how you've mounted them. They won't interfere with the jackstays because they're on the front of the yard rather than the top of it. I just didn't notice them at first because I didn't look closely enough. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Keith S

[mbp521]

Keith,

 

Its not the Tennessee, but I thought it was pretty ironic. I was perusing through Facebook when I ran across this post from the NRG showing the hoisting of the stuns’l on the Pride of Baltimore II. While it’s not identical, it kind of shows something similar to your drawing above.

 

https://m.facebook.com/prideII/videos/897213800806335/?refsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com%2F127406460658253%2Fposts%2F3889303477801847&_rdr
 

-Brian

[Keith Black]

10 hours ago, Keith S said:

The little dangly spar seems superfluous to me

 

 Keith, watch the link in Brian's post above. It makes sense now. Thank you, Brian for posting. 

[rwiederrich]

Keith...the typical practice was to either(there were two of them), Mount the stunsail spar on top of the yard or hang it from under the yard.

 

It never was to interfere with the action of sail furling and or function of the sail.  Sails were bent to the jackstay which was typically mounted on the top of the yard.  Stunsails  booms were stored in their run-in positions (Over the yard...or under) and were run-out..when light to moderate breezes required their use.

 

Stunsails have been used on ships for centuries and up to and exceeding the time period you are modeling...they have changed little from their inception.

 

My Great Republic model  modeled them under the yards..where they hung out of the way, when not in use.  Dependent on the rigging and any interference they may have induced upon the sheets....I think what ever was typical for the model of vessel you are building...you would be  safe to bet it is correct.

[Keith Black]

5 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

the typical practice was to either(there were two of them), Mount the stunsail spar on top of the yard or hang it from under the yard

 

 Rob, that's the way I see it shown on models, over or under but a H&H photographic of the Tennessee shows the boom mounted in front of the main and fore lower yards and the attached drawing shows the boom in front. I was torn when I built the main and fore lower yards regarding the boom and still am but, they're both made the way they are, right, wrong, or indifferent. I want to thank you again for your Great Republic build. I go to your build constantly searching for answers to my many questions.

[Keith Black]

On 5/5/2021 at 8:09 PM, BANYAN said:

Keith, I am researching the studdingsail booms for Victoria at the moment.  For ships of the era we are both interested in/building, the various authors all suggest that it was usual to have the swing booms fitted to the fore-end, and parallel with the fore-channel (not common to carry a lower studdingsail on the main).   A crane (chesstree with a hinged metal bracket) was fitted on the hull near the end of the boom such that when swung in/aft, it securely held the boom parallel with, and out the same distance from the hull as, the channel.   In Victoria, this is evident in the profile photo I have of her which shows a gooseneck fitted on her inner boom end.  The cranked gooseneck seated in a lug fitted on the fore part of the fore channel.  Even if Tennessee did not carry studdingsails, she probably had the boom fitted as a boat boom anyway?  She then would have a fore and after guy, topping lift and associated lizard, and rope ladders, painters etc on the boom (only when in use).

 

 

 Pat, I'm not clearly understanding what you're telling me. It isn't a Pat issue, it's a Keith issue and my lack of knowledge about the world (and terms) above the gunnels. There is a boom on the lower main and fore yards, there is not a lower boom for either the fore or main goose necked to the hull. At least none that I can see in the four available H&H photographs that clearly show the hull from both port and starboard sides. 

 

 What I didn't realize till this discussion is that the boom attached the main and fore lower yards is also called a studdingsail boom, I thought that term applied only to the lower boom that attached to the hull. I learned something and for that, thank you. 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Keith Black

[Tony Hunt]

23 hours ago, Keith Black said:

 

 

 

I love the dockside crane in this photo. What a wonderful piece of Victorian-era engineering!

 

[rwiederrich]

On 5/7/2021 at 5:23 PM, Keith Black said:

 

 Rob, that's the way I see it shown on models, over or under but a H&H photographic of the Tennessee shows the boom mounted in front of the main and fore lower yards and the attached drawing shows the boom in front. I was torn when I built the main and fore lower yards regarding the boom and still am but, they're both made the way they are, right, wrong, or indifferent. I want to thank you again for your Great Republic build. I go to your build constantly searching for answers to my many questions.

Keith.   If you notice the irons for the stunsails are above the jack stays. Not interfering with the sail.  In your ship image the stunsail boom is above the jackstay. 

[Keith Black]

7 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Keith.   If you notice the irons for the stunsails are above the jack stays. Not interfering with the sail.  In your ship image the stunsail boom is above the jackstay.

 

 Rob, I don't see the boom being above the jackstay? I have that image in a tiff file where I can increase magnification beyond image recognition. The attached 1865 photo provide by Pat Banyan shows the main's main yard and the boom appears to be in front at the yardarm. 

[rwiederrich]

7 hours ago, Keith Black said:

 

 Rob, I don't see the boom being above the jackstay? I have that image in a tiff file where I can increase magnification beyond image recognition. The attached 1865 photo provide by Pat Banyan shows the main's main yard and the boom appears to be in front at the yardarm. 

I was referencing the dock side image.  One thing may be noted:  the Tennessee was a steamer and it isn’t beyond comprehension to gather she stowed her sails and stun sail booms in unregulater fashion.  And if indeed her booms were forward......the boom irons would have held the boom far away from the jackstays.....hence the sails

[Keith Black]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

One thing may be noted:  the Tennessee was a steamer and it isn’t beyond comprehension to gather she stowed her sails and stun sail booms in unregulater fashion.  And if indeed her booms were forward......the boom irons would have held the boom far away from the jackstays.....hence the sails

 

 Rob, thank you, I agree 100% with that assessment. 

 

[rwiederrich]

18 hours ago, Keith Black said:

 

 Rob, thank you, I agree 100% with that assessment. 

 

One last thing Keith...Dependent on the exact location of the jackstays(sometimes they were farther forward on the yard then directly on top), the stunsail boom irons would have been on top making them far from interfering with sail function....and if the jackstays were on top the boom irons would have been slightly forward...again keeping them far away from the jackstays and sails.  From photographs, it appears your booms are slightly on top if not forward...making the jackstays forward or aft of them.   Just account for them when you decide where you want to place your booms...or in your case(Now that your jackstays are placed),  adjust the booms, forward or aft.   Sall goood.

 

Rob

[Keith Black]

 I'm currently all over the board on this build, bouncing from the yards to the blocks and back.

 

 First, my apologies for the poor photos. My lighting stinks as is evidenced in the photos.  

 

 I purchased all my blocks as making them is beyond my tool capabilities. All the blocks purchased were "boxwood", in reality, probably not but they are/were yellow. On a model where wood species are highlighted along with exacting carpentry boxwood blocks don't look out of place. Of course, the very best looking blocks are those scratch built by the builders. To my eye, a model ship with a painted hull etc, etc, boxwood blocks just don't look right, to me. I hope that statement hasn't offended anyone, as I said, "to me". 

 

 I knew that staining the blocks was going to be a time consuming bloody mess and I was 100% correct. I first placed all the blocks of each category in a plastic container as shown. I then poured Minwax Red Chestnut oil stain # 232 in the container till the blocks were completely submerged. I let the blocks soak submerged for eight hours. I then poured off the excess stain into another container. I then poured the remaining stain and blocks into a clean container. Patted the blocks with a paper towel and swirled them about with a long bristled craft paint brush. I let them dry for 24 hours and then transferred them to another container. I then poly coated by dabbing small amounts of poly with a long bristled brush till all were completely coated and then let them dry for twelve hours. 

 

 For the deadeyes, once the poly was dry I washed them in a diluted mixer of black acrylic paint and water and let them sit till dry. 

 

 

 

 

 All the blocks that are to be used have been stained. What's shown is just a portion of the total amount of blocks. I estimate the could be as many as 300 plus blocks used to complete the rigging. 

 

 Top row left to right; Single, single, single, and heart.

 Middle row; Bullseye, deadeye, deadeye, and violin. 

 Bottom row;  Double, double, and triple. 

 

 I placed an untreated deadeye that will not be used next to each pile to show the before and after. 

 

 I still need to chase the holes in each block.

 

 

 Thank you to all for the comments and the likes and to all for looking in. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Keith Black

[mtaylor]

Fiddly work, but well done, Keith.  They look great from here.

[TBlack]

Keith,

A laborious process, but good results!

Tom

[Keith Black]

 I'm adding three photos of individual blocks to better show the resulting coloration as the photos in the first post didn't do the end result justice. 

 

 Thank you, Mark, Tom, and Tony. 

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Keith Black

[mbp521]

Keith,

 

Nice work on the blocks and dead eyes, I am filing away your technique for future builds.  
 

As for being all over the place, I am quickly finding out that seems to be the norm (at least for me) on scratch builds. Without a set plan, I just work on what part interests me at the time. But every little bit you get done is a step forward towards completion. 
 

-Brian

[BANYAN]

The many small jobs needed before you can even start rigging is incredible.  The blocks alone take significant time as you have found; the effort has paid off though, they look good.  Now for stropping them, not to mention the hooks, shackles, etc - Sorry

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Keith Black]

14 hours ago, mbp521 said:

Without a set plan, I just work on what part interests me at the time.

 

 Brian, it's not so much what I want to do next, it's more of a knee jerk reaction to the many task that seemingly all need to be done at the same time. 

 

13 minutes ago, BANYAN said:

Now for stropping them, not to mention the hooks, shackles, etc - Sorry

 

 

 Pat, I'm using wire to strop so that makes things a tad bit easier. Hooks are a pain in that I can't manage to be consistent but I'll have plenty of  opportunities to get better. Shackles, at 120 we don't need no stinking shackles.  That'll be one of those don't look too close items. 

 

 Thank you to all for stopping by and the likes.