flying_dutchman2 Posted February 3, 2020 Author #151 Posted February 3, 2020 This morning I did the radical re-do without any problems. Removed the necessary planks and frames. Sanded everything and glued in the frames. Glued in the planking and for extra strength, drilled hole through plank and frame and hammered in a toothpick. Tomorrow I will sand lightly on the outside, add some more frames to the area and make sure there are no more drastic re-do's. Marcus Omega1234, bruce d, mtaylor and 6 others 9 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
Ab Hoving Posted February 4, 2020 #152 Posted February 4, 2020 Your project almost starts to resemble a restoration project. 🙂 paulsutcliffe and mtaylor 2 Quote
flying_dutchman2 Posted February 6, 2020 Author #153 Posted February 6, 2020 Measured many times the heights of the different decks. Meaning of the colorful push pins: Yellow and red is for the waterline. Green and blue is for the lower deck which will not be visible. White and clear is for the main deck, and decks I don't know the names for. This is the lower deck that will be completely hidden. I have put it in anyway because I will use it as a guide for the beams for the main deck and other small deck. What is the deck called under the poop deck (where does that name originate from?). Does the forecastle deck have a focsle on top of it? Please feel free to set me straight or steer me to a location where all decks are defined on any ship. I have books that have some explanation of decks but they are not complete. Thanks Marcus Jack12477, Omega1234, GrandpaPhil and 4 others 7 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
mtaylor Posted February 7, 2020 #154 Posted February 7, 2020 Looks like a good plan and execution, Marcus. As for "poop deck"... Google is our friend: "The name originates from the French word for stern, la poupe, from Latin puppis." FriedClams 1 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
Ab Hoving Posted February 7, 2020 #155 Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) The interior and the decks and their naming are dependent of the sort of fluit. As you know the type was extremely versatile and the internal devision varies just as much. In the case of the Zeehaen, a VOC fluit, it is very much like the usual devision. A - Hold B - Cable tier C - Hell (small compartment used as detention space) D - Cheese and bread room E - Powder room F - Lower deck (in Dutch: overloop. comp.: orlop) G - Gun room (In Dutch: konstabelskamer) H - Upper deck (in Dutch: verdek) I - Forecastle (in Dutch: bak) covered by the 'bakdek'. J - Steering stand (in Dutch: schans or stuurplecht) covered by the 'halfdek' K - Captain's cabin (in Dutch: kajuit) L - Upper cabin (in Dutch: hut) covered by the 'campagnedek'. For the simple mostly smaller cargo variant the lower deck was called 'koebrug'. It was only used for storage of goods which have to be kept dry and was not accessible for the crew. The crew's quarters are behind the koebrug and behind that is the cabin, which was used by the whole crew. The skipper used the upper cabin above. On such ships discipline was much different from men-of-war or East-India-men. The crew was small (about 12 men), of which most of them were very familiar, originating from the same village or region. Food was better too and not rationed. I hope this explains it a bit. Edited February 7, 2020 by Ab Hoving mtaylor, Jolley Roger, FriedClams and 3 others 6 Quote
flying_dutchman2 Posted February 7, 2020 Author #156 Posted February 7, 2020 Mark, thanks for the explanation and Ab, for the elaborate definition of all the decks. I appreciate the Dutch definitions as well. Marcus mtaylor 1 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
Louie da fly Posted March 1, 2020 #157 Posted March 1, 2020 I don't know if these will be of any help, but I just came across them browsing the Net. This one's a black charcoal sketch in the British Museum, museum number 1836,0811.609 - no mention of artist or date, but obviously a fluit. The other is from a newspaper item about a 17th century shipwreck find - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3547510/Rags-bottom-North-Sea-belonged-member-Charles-s-household.html - unrelated to the picture itself, but at the top of the picture it says where it comes from. It might contain some details of value? Steven SighingDutchman, Elijah and mtaylor 3 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht
flying_dutchman2 Posted March 1, 2020 Author #158 Posted March 1, 2020 Thanks, Steven, The 1st picture shows how the rudder and the tiller are positioned. The more pictures I see from that the better. I have seen similar pictures like the second one. It always looks like the over do on the curvature of the hips. Marcus Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
Louie da fly Posted March 2, 2020 #159 Posted March 2, 2020 A pleasure, Marcus. Here's another I found - a fluit by the French artist Diderot, dated 1779 (which I thought was a bit late for fluits to still be in operation) Steven GrandpaPhil, Elijah, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht
Ab Hoving Posted March 2, 2020 #160 Posted March 2, 2020 This is probably a copy of an older image. The spritmast dissappeared after 1750. mtaylor 1 Quote
flying_dutchman2 Posted March 2, 2020 Author #161 Posted March 2, 2020 Back from India. The 3 day wedding was actually a 5 day wedding. It was a show of opulence. The groom arrived on an elephant. Several things that left a mark in my brain were: - The sheer amount of people, from dawn to dusk it is shoulder to shoulder everywhere you go. The country has 1.3 Billion people. (and I thought Amsterdam and Chicago had a lot of people) - I thought I knew what poverty was, due to living in South East Asia and West Africa, but it is nothing like that at all. It was an eye opener. - Three Traffic Rules: Have a working horn. Have good working brakes. Have some luck. Use your horn when you want to pass, when you are passing and when you passed. Use your horn when others: cut you off, going too slow, Anything you can think of. Everybody does this and it is very noisy. Constant fender benders. It happens, check it out, continue with your journey. Police and ambulance drive in both directions all the time. All in all the trip was a lot of fun, didn't get sick by drinking the local water and learned a lot about the culture and history of India. Back to the Fluit. Marcus Boxbuilds, mtaylor and Roger Pellett 3 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
Louie da fly Posted March 3, 2020 #162 Posted March 3, 2020 20 hours ago, Ab Hoving said: This is probably a copy of an older image. The spritmast dissappeared after 1750. Quite right. It did seem to be from the wrong era. Steven mtaylor 1 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht
flying_dutchman2 Posted March 19, 2020 Author #163 Posted March 19, 2020 Have been doing some ship building but the last 3 weeks it has been mostly outside. Getting the edible garden ready for spring planting and pruned all the fruit. So I cut away excess wood from the railings. Still need to remove the wood to where the tiller goes into the ship. It is curved. Dry placed the decks on stainless steel rods. Through carefully sanding the inside of the hull the bulkheads have been thinned in thickness. My present dilemma is with what do I need to dress up the inside of the ship? As is. Veneer. Veneer with spaced dowels. Layer of veneer with 0.5mm thick planking on top of that and spaced dowels on top of the planking. The last option seems like the best option. All advise is appreciated. Thanks Marcus amateur, G.L., bruce d and 6 others 9 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
Baker Posted March 20, 2020 #164 Posted March 20, 2020 Marcus, Maybe the hull of a fluit was planked on the inside. Then the frames are not visible mtaylor 1 Quote Regards, Patrick Finished : Soleil Royal Heller 1/100 Wasa Billing Boats Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch) Pelican / Golden Hind 1/45 scratch Current build : Mary Rose 1/50 scratch große-jacht / Yacht D'Oro 1/50 Corel Gallery : Revell Bounty Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch Shore leave, non ship models build logs : ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72 Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72 Autoblinda AB40 1/72 122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72 10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e) Centurion Mk.1 conversion M29 Weasel 1/72 SAM6 1/72 T26 Finland T26 TN 1/72 Autoprotetto S37 1/72 Opel Blitz buses 1/72 Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72 Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72 Cleaning the 1/72 military collection Si vis pacem, para bellum
flying_dutchman2 Posted March 20, 2020 Author #165 Posted March 20, 2020 7 hours ago, Backer said: Marcus, Maybe the hull of a fluit was planked on the inside. Then the frames are not visible The pictures in the 17th century Dutch merchant ships book show the outside of the hull planking and on the inside long vertical square dowels. It seems like the ship was built shell-first. I am going to do veneer with 0.5mm planking on top with spaced square dowels on top of that. Making it look like frames. Marcus Landlubber Mike, Baker, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
flying_dutchman2 Posted March 24, 2020 Author #166 Posted March 24, 2020 Created little deckbeam holders and glied the with a combo of glue and sawdust to the inside of the hull. The beams are dry fitted in the slots. You won't see any of this when the main deck is in. Once this is completed I will start on dressing up the inside of the hull. It is the area that is exposed. Marcus FriedClams, G.L., mtaylor and 4 others 7 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
Ab Hoving Posted March 24, 2020 #167 Posted March 24, 2020 You are really capable of creating a tremendous mess, Marcus.:-) Can't wait to see the rest... Ab Ondras71, Landlubber Mike, mtaylor and 5 others 8 Quote
flying_dutchman2 Posted March 25, 2020 Author #168 Posted March 25, 2020 On 3/24/2020 at 12:49 PM, Ab Hoving said: You are really capable of creating a tremendous mess, Marcus.:-) Can't wait to see the rest... Ab The mess will be hidden. You won't see it. Marcus Landlubber Mike and G.L. 2 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
flying_dutchman2 Posted March 31, 2020 Author #169 Posted March 31, 2020 I am stuck. I have difficulty visualizing the transom/stern area (maybe it's me). I do have help from a Dutchman on modelbouwforum.nl who has built the Zeehaen in a smaller scale and his looks really good. I'll just go back to his build and stare at his pictures from the stetn area 😀 Marcus mtaylor, Boxbuilds and GrandpaPhil 3 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
Ab Hoving Posted April 1, 2020 #170 Posted April 1, 2020 Show me a view from behind. We should be able to solve this. mtaylor, cog and Ondras71 3 Quote
flying_dutchman2 Posted April 2, 2020 Author #171 Posted April 2, 2020 On 4/1/2020 at 2:32 AM, Ab Hoving said: Show me a view from behind. We should be able to solve this. Thanks Ab, Here are several pictures from the back and both sides. Elijah, Omega1234, mtaylor and 3 others 6 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
ccoyle Posted April 2, 2020 #172 Posted April 2, 2020 Marcus, I somehow missed your catboat build that you provided the link for -- that one came out very nice! FriedClams and mtaylor 2 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, DS Børøysund
flying_dutchman2 Posted April 2, 2020 Author #173 Posted April 2, 2020 2 hours ago, ccoyle said: Marcus, I somehow missed your catboat build that you provided the link for -- that one came out very nice! Yes, she turned out pretty nice. My sister and brother in law love the build and she is proudly displayed on a side table in the living room. Marcus ccoyle and mtaylor 2 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
Ab Hoving Posted April 3, 2020 #174 Posted April 3, 2020 OK Marcus, here you go... Remember that lousy sketch I drew you? Grab that batten you screwed to the sternpost and place it where you had it. Now you have the right position for the taffrail. Make it from card first to get a good fit and then glue your wooden version between the ship's sides, tight to the front side of the batten. Now you can remove the batten and the excess of the planks sticking out backwards. Then show me a picture again. Best of luck, man. GrandpaPhil, Ondras71, mtaylor and 7 others 10 Quote
flying_dutchman2 Posted April 3, 2020 Author #175 Posted April 3, 2020 Thanks, Ab. Once the taffrail is installed, I need to cut out a round area just below the taffrail. I think that once the taffrail is in then that should be easy to do. Just follow the curve of the carvings tbat will be installed at that location. Marcus mtaylor 1 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
Jean-Pierre Posted April 4, 2020 #176 Posted April 4, 2020 By the way, do you have the photo album of an excellent Zeehaen model at this address: https://www.modelships.de/Fluyt-Zeehaen/Fleute-Zeehaen.htm. ? mtaylor 1 Quote
flying_dutchman2 Posted April 4, 2020 Author #177 Posted April 4, 2020 Yes, I do. Also on a Dutch forum someone build the Zeehaen as well as the site ShipsofScale. Marcus Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
flying_dutchman2 Posted April 8, 2020 Author #178 Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) Did what Ab mentioned in his post #174. First I dry fitted the taffrail to the batten that is screwed to the post. Glued the taffrail in place. After glue is dry remove the batten holding the taffrail and the excess of the planks sticking out backwards. Marcus Edited April 8, 2020 by flying_dutchman2 Spelling Omega1234, mtaylor, G.L. and 1 other 4 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
flying_dutchman2 Posted April 8, 2020 Author #180 Posted April 8, 2020 19 minutes ago, Ab Hoving said: Yes? And the end result? Patience....... Elijah and mtaylor 2 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
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