1/35 UH-1H Huey By lmagna

[Javlin]

On 1/22/2020 at 10:44 PM, lmagna said:

Not quite inverted but close! They were like little Pit Bulls once they got a hold of you there was little chance of escape.  

Now that sounds Bad ***! Kevin

[lmagna]

3 hours ago, Javlin said:

Now that sounds Bad

It WAS, for the bad guys. I suspect the last thing they wanted to see was several Cobras and Loaches overhead looking at them. In fact I think that was the LAST thing they did see in many cases. But watching them I must say gave me a kind of warm fuzzy feeling knowing that there was little chance in the next few minutes when we closed in that there would be very many interested in taking pot shots at ME! 

 

Been a bit of delay while cutting the excess and stuff off of the CMK interior castings and checking for fit in the fuselage. Kind of a disappointment and probably a waste of time and money. More hopefully later today.

[lmagna]

OK time to show that this build actually has some kind of modeling content.

 

I think that I mentioned somewhere back that in addition to the kit that I bought some time ago, I at least doubled the cost of the original kit by buying resin and PE parts in order for this build to even be presentable on this forum.

 

Over the last few weeks I have been going through both kit and after market parts, trying to decide what would be best to use. It would not have been so bad except for the most part the kit supplied items are not all that bad! A perfectly good rendition of a UH-1 could be built without any after market parts at all. Having said that, there are some of the after market parts that are more as I remember the Huey than what is supplied in the kit. If that was not enough there are parts of both the kit and the after market stuff that are very poor fits! I keep finding that the part I prefer to use does not fit properly! Ever since I started it seems like it has not only become a double build, but it has been one step forward and three steps back! For anyone intending to build this kit, just be aware that the fit in places is very poor and it takes considerable work and finesse to make it all work. From what I have read about resin moldings this is to be expected but it is the kit I am talking about.

 

So now the pictures:

In this picture you are able to see the kit deck plate. In some ways I liked the aftermarket deck better but it was too small both in length and beam. I could have easily dealt with the length issue of almost 1/8th of an inch but the width issue was a much bigger problem and much harder to handle. The biggest draw of the aftermarket deck was the properly drawn floor panels and the molded in center console. The advantage of the kit deck was the traction surface and the fact that it actually almost fit the cockpit opening. (I will explain that better later. 

 

Other things shown in this picture are the resin engine/transmission bulkhead and the transplanted resin center radio console. The pilot seats/armor are kit items and the dash is resin aftermarket. The two nose structure pieces are modified kit pieces. I would have preferred to use the more detailed aftermarket pieces but they did not fit the shape of the nose properly. Again I could have fixed the problem but then it would have been necessary to make further mods to make the dash mount properly.  

 

In the case of the instrument panel, I could have used either dash. The kit dash is the longer version and has an absolutely fantastic PE insert that is leagues beyond anything I could paint. BUT..... my memory kept nagging me and one of the things I distinctly remember about the Huey is the offset instrument panel. In real life it is shifted off to the right to allow the left hand pilot position a better view through the chin window for landings. This ended up overriding the panel detail and I switched to the shorter aftermarket dash and modified it to fit in what I feel is the proper location. The after market gauges are still pretty nice but no where near as nice as the kit offered PE.

Here is a picture that better shows the offset instrument panel. It is just loosely sitting in place and is not positioned completely at this time. It also shows the kit supplied seats/armor. There are a couple of issues with the seats as supplied in my opinion. 1st off I do not remember the pilot having cushions that were this sculpted and frankly comfortable looking. My memory shows something much more in the functional range than the luxury range.

This picture also shows something that is somewhat common with many of the kit parts. The kit is a rebox of an older kit that did not include PE parts in the kit. So in this case you have to remove the molded seat belts and harness if you want to use the PE parts supplied. Also the kit provides pilots and if left in place would almost certainly interfere with the seated pilots. It was also necessary to file the armor to fit the seat frames and the cushions to fit  the armor. Also of note is that the left cushion does not fit the right armor and visa versa. Also, in my opinion the seats/armor are too wide and the armor and seat frames too thick. I will probably be going to the aftermarket seats/armor after all.

Here we see the aftermarket engine bulkhead. The fit and added detail are very nice compared to the kit option, but the diamond pattern is not right. Looks more like the tufted pattern of a local bar. The kit pattern of the soundproofing padding is much more accurate in my opinion.

 

Also this picture shows some of the problems I have been having getting the paint to stick properly. The only parts I have painted at this point are the deck and the bulkhead. I have never really used an airbrush before and what you are seeing is after weeks of painting, and re-painting several times. I finally had to give it a rest and do some of the other work you see. After I get the rest of the interior sorted out I will be returning to the painting issues. Hopefully I am not to stupid to learn at least one new trick.

 

 

Another view of the painting issues and much nicer bulkhead detailing. This was my office.

These are the parts that I have not used. They are the kit supplied bulkhead and instrument panel. The aftermarket deck minus the center radio console that I cut off and modified to fit the kit deck. The nicer, more detailed nose pieces that unfortunately did not fit as well. Last but not least are the seats/armor and frames for the pilots. After looking at both sets of seats I think I will be switching out the above seats with these seats. I not only feel more comfortable with the simpler cushions but the armor is slightly narrower and the seats do not seem to crowd the center console quite as bad. This is not as big of an issue for the left seat but the collective is located between the seat armor and the console on the right seat and the fit with the kit seats is REALLY tight. There would not be enough room for the AC to hold the collective or start the engine, (Also located on the collective) when it is in the fully lowered position.

 

So that brings this misadventure up to date. Hopefully progress from here on out will go faster and I can post more often for those few who may be interested.

 

Thanks for looking.

Edited February 10, 2020 by lmagna

[lmagna]

I posted this in another part of the forum. I ran across it today while looking for something else. For those who wonder what flying combat in a Huey could sometimes be like this is close! I only wish it was not in South Africa and I could physically get to it. I would LOVE to have one more ride.

 

 

[Roger Pellett]

Lou,

 

I wonder if your painting problem is not caused by an interaction with either the mould release agent used when casting the parts or something deposited by off gassing of the casting material itself.  Some epoxy formulations, for example, are prone to what is known as an “amine blush” that forms on the surface during cure. This can interfere with paint adhesion.  A good cleaning and rinsing with detergent and water might help.

 

Roger

[lmagna]

1 hour ago, Roger Pellett said:

 A good cleaning and rinsing with detergent and water might help.

Hi Roger I thought the same, but after cleaning off the paint I was unhappy with at least three times using soap and water and starting over I don't think that is the problem anymore. I talked to CDW about it a little and I am wondering if it is possibly the paint coming out of the airbrush too dry or lack of a good primer. 

 

I tried using a bottle of Model Master acrylic to paint the deck the first two times but even after thinning the paint several times it constantly was drying in the tip of my airbrush and within just a couple of minutes was clogging it completely. I found pretty much the same color in Lifecolor Camouflage series along with another color that I liked for the interior walls and bulkhead. I am able to get everything painted now pretty much with ease and no clogging of the airbrush, but you can see that the problem of the paint coming off too easily is still an issue. 

 

At this point I am thinking that I will go ahead and risk covering up some small detail by spraying everything with a primer first then going over yet again with the colors I like. If nothing else, by the time I get the paint to stick I should have some experience on using an airbrush! I really hope so as most of my novice work will be on the interior where it will not be as easy to see when the model is finished. When I get to the exterior it will be a hole other matter, and it will probably make or break the build.

 

Thanks for looking in and the help.

[Canute]

Lou, you might want to wash the parts with Dawn. It's a good grease cutter. Don't touch the plastic with your bare mitts after that; possible finger oil transfer. Get some cheap latex/nitrile gloves.

 

Try a rattle can of Tamiya fine gray primer. It's a good primer. Start and stop the spray before you get to the model parts and keep the spray moving.

[BETAQDAVE]

12 hours ago, lmagna said:

I would LOVE to have one more ride.

    Sorry Lou, but leave me out!  My one flight was more than enough for me! (I wonder how much those tourists in the video would have enjoyed their flight blindfolded.)  😖

[lmagna]

So you prefer rattle can spray over using an airbrush Ken?

I was under the impression that cans spray a heavy coating and are a bit hard to control.  I of course have used them in the past but I am trying to make this build nicer than any of my older models so that it is not a total embarrassment on the forum. The soap I have been using is Dawn. That and warm water takes off the old mistake pretty well.

 

You can wait with my wife on the ground Dave.

She took one look at the video and said something like "Over my dead body!" You miss all of the fun of watching the ground come at you at 70 knots if you close your eyes or are blindfolded! That is half of the thrill of flying so close to the ground that you have to dodge the trees! If you can't see it coming then it is just a bunch of noise and wind with an occasional tilt here and there. Where is the fun in that? I had always wondered how the jet types do it at 600 knots (+-). But then they don't do it with open doors. To be honest though, I don't think they fly quite so low as we did.  

Edited February 11, 2020 by lmagna

[CDW]

I suggest you acquire a bottle of Mr Color thinner, preferably the leveling thinner rather than the standard thinner, then use that to thin and paint the resin parts. Mix in  50:50 ratio for starters. Thin more if needed. It will stick much better than acrylic by far. The Mr. Color paints we talked about are solvent based paints and high quality as long as they have not deteriorated by age and/or extreme temperatures. Acrylic paints can be ruined if they are exposed to freezing temps.

[lmagna]

I have no idea what the history is behind the paints I have. I bought them in an estate type buy from the guys brother-in-law. After I talked to you the other day I realized I would probably have to spend more money to fill in the blanks of my inventory.

[Canute]

Lou, rattle cans for primers. Airbrush for final colors

[popeye the sailor]

probable that the resin finish may be too smooth for the paint to hold onto.   a light sanding with really fine sandpaper....just to skuff up the finish may help.  primers are made to prep the plastic.....chemically burnishing the finish so that when dry,  will be a good surface for the color paint.....heck,  I've seen some that actually melted the plastic!  {puckered the surface like crepe }   I've had little experience with resin,  other that the resin I use on my boar hulls.   some aftermarket parts are really nice.......I've used them very little myself ......but as I read from other logs,  some aren't worth the trouble and confusion they can cause   

[lmagna]

At this point I kind agree with you Denis. If I had not bought the aftermarket resin stuff I think this model would have still been "Good enough" with some attention to fit finish and a few mods. Oh well live and learn. It was only money. If I didn't spend it here I would just be using it to pay bills! How much fun is that? 

[mtaylor]

I think you're doing the right thing with picking and choosing the parts, Lou.   Paint... I know sip about.  And I loved that video.

[lmagna]

18 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

And I loved that video.

So would you pay that kind of price for one more ride? Or maybe I'm just beaucoup dien cai dau!

[CDW]

Just now, lmagna said:

So would you pay that kind of price for one more ride? Or maybe I'm just beaucoup dien cai dau!

Really? Who woulda thunk it? 😁

[mtaylor]

You're not beaucoup dien cai dau.   Would I spend the money?  I'm not sure what the price is, but no... I don't I would and I'm not sure why I feel that way.  

[lmagna]

Just some quick changes tonight, not really worth pictures.

1. Scrubbed all of the paint off of the cabin interior. Turns out that Denis was at least partly right. The paint came off of the resin parts FAR easier than it did the kit plastic parts.  Must be something in the resin that affects the paint adhesion. 

2. Removed kit seats/armor and test fitted aftermarket seats.

3. Removed kit chin frame pieces and replaced them with more detailed aftermarket pieces filed and custom fitted.

4. Further modified and refined center radio console to fit new chin pieces and cabin floor.

 

So now all I have from the original kit in the cabin is the cabin deck. Everything else is aftermarket. I still have a considerable amount of modifying and detail work to go, especially in the pilot area. I still also have a lot of PE to add, or at least I think I do, and there are still a few naggy things that bother me that I know are wrong with the kit. Even though it does not look like all that much at this point I am pretty satisfied with how it is going and feel that if I can get it painted properly it will look good, and be as accurate as I can make it.

 

Another thing that came to mind tonight is that pretty soon I will need to build/paint the pilots! they will have to be seated and belted in before I glue the interior into the fuselage! That is another area that I have never modeled before. People! 

 

Speaking of people, thanks to all of you, your input has been invaluable and when possible listened to and applied.

 

Thanks for looking in. 

[lmagna]

17 hours ago, BETAQDAVE said:

Sorry Lou, but leave me out!

I would like to apologize Dave.

 

I have thought about your incident at Ft. Sill several times off and on over the last few days and as I said before, I pretty much wrote it of to possible hazing, something we in the flying community not only did to each other but to outsiders now and then. It would sometimes take the form of erratic flight maneuvers, (Like in your case) buzzing citizens or other slower targets, or even getting hung on the stinger. Give me a little time and I could possibly come up with all kinds of incidents that were dreamt up to break the boredom or tension depending on the day. 

 

BUT in some cases there were people who were not used to bouncing around at 3000 feet with their feet hanging out over open air, or flying at 90 knots fifteen feet from the ground while looking up at the surrounding terrain. This was daily life for us, (and me) and sometimes we probably don't understand or as in this case recognize the trauma that  could be involved with open door flight. You must admit it is a pretty alien emotion to someone like me. I am not talking about the the other aspects of combat flight. That is a whole other story that is not part of the equation at this point.

 

Anyway, in thinking about your incident I kind of went into darker places in my head where I try to seldom go, and I think I have a little better understanding now and certainly more sympathy than I expressed before. What came to mind is that sometimes, even though we were not a Dust Off, (Medi vac) helicopter,  we sometimes loaded people who were injured to one degree or another. You do not have time to be picky when evacuating a hot LZ. You take in all comers, sometimes you drag them in. Your story made me think of what it was like for some of these people who in a few cases saw nothing but the overhead as their list view of the world, but more often associated their last flight in a Huey as a trip into pain and hardship of one degree or another. Certainly as a reminder of a very bad day in their lives. It was my visit into this dark place that I think brought me to the realization that your ONLY trip in a Huey was a trip of this sort. At least to you.  

 

I hope that all makes since and you accept my apology and forgive my short comings. Even though I cannot help personally, I wish you could take another ride in a Huey, this time with your eyes open and feeling a little more secure while inside. This would give you a different view of helicopter flight and I think a much better feeling than you have been carrying all of these years.  

 

It appears that "One more ride" has more than one meaning here. THIS is what I started this build for. A look past and a course forward.

 

Thank you for your assistance.

[mtaylor]

Well said, Lou.   I try not go there in my mind with the Dust Off flights we did.  Saw too much stuff that one should not see.

[Canute]

And they wondered why the kids took the edges off with alcohol and other substances.

[lmagna]

Yeah sometimes people forget that almost all of us were less than legal age for voting and in some states for drinking. In fact anyone over 21 was "older".

[Jack12477]

2 minutes ago, lmagna said:

fact anyone over 21 was "older".

I guess I would be considered ancient of days then since I was 24 when I got drafted. 

[lmagna]

Yes, you would definitely been considered an "Old man", especially as you were an E5. E5 and above were allowed and even expected to be a little older.

[Jack12477]

Actually I made E5 in 15 months from date of service entry, shortest time allowed. I was E4 for about 4-5 months before being promoted to E5. Entered service as E1. I was only on active duty for 24 months. 

[mtaylor]

2 hours ago, Canute said:

And they wondered why the kids took the edges off with alcohol and other substances.

Living in hell.... bad water and food that left something to be desired.  Beer was cheap and so alcohol.  Weed was a big no-no.  So.. we drank.  The standard phrase was that "In Vietnam, what we called mild social drinking was called chronic alcoholism in the States.".   

 

Hmm.... I had to "requalify" on the rifle range and pistol range while I was there.   I actually shot better at the targets with a few beers in me than I ever did Stateside with no beer.   

[lmagna]

I think your situation was not all that uncommon among "Older" guys. I believe that the military looked at you as more mature and stable than many of the kids Just out of high school. In retrospect I think many of the younger guys felt the same even though they may not have known it, so you made rank fast unless you were all screwed up in some other way. I suspect you had very little problems with many lower ranked guys unless they were also a guy who was returning from Vietnam and a combat assignment. Some times guys like that who after 11 months in combat but still at a lower rank, were somewhat poor at taking orders form what they probably tended to call a R.E.M.F. I was lucky and never had to deal with it. Within 48 hours of my last combat flight I was a civilian walking down the streets of Oakland looking for the bus depot, and dealing with a completely different set of issues. I like to think I would not have been that type if I had stayed in but I do know that there was also a somewhat unwritten rule that combat experience outranked the stripes on your sleeves, or for that matter. sometimes the bars on your collar, SIR! I suspect I would have made E5 if I had stayed in. After all they took the time and expense to ship me out for six weeks of NCO Academy shortly before my DEROS/ETS. I was locked into E4 as long as I was operating as a door gunner. That was the highest rank allowed for that position. I would have had to go to school and changed my primary MOS to have gone further up the ranks and stayed flying.

 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by lmagna

[lmagna]

18 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

Weed was a big no-no.  So.. we drank.  The standard phrase was that "In Vietnam, what we called mild social drinking was called chronic alcoholism in the States.". 

How true, except  for drinking heavily the night before, showing up for a flight drunk, or even heavily hung over were pretty big NoNos as well.

[mtaylor]

True... never, ever, show up drunk.  Hung over.... depends if you could get enough coffee in you before flying.  But... if not on the flight schedule for the next day, all bets were off.