Straightening aftermarket rigging line

[DonInAZ]

So, is there a preferred method for getting the kinks out of aftermarket rigging line (Model Shipways in this case) ?

I am currently just hanging some weights on it because I couldn't think of anything else to try. 

[turangi]

I'm no expert but I have had some luck wetting the line a bit before hanging with weight and when dry apply a bit of beeswax. I use this to apply the wax, very easy to pull the line through.  https://www.amazon.com/Dritz-622-Beeswax-with-Holder/dp/B00AQ7CVPO/ref=asc_df_B00AQ7CVPO/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=216539702338&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2393104508206025834&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9021508&hvtargid=aud-801738734305:pla-350804685305&psc=1

Edited February 5, 2020 by turangi

[ccoyle]

Many modelers use beeswax to treat rigging line. It comes in small tubes, and you can drag your line through the tip, then use your fingertips to supply the heat (it doesn't take much at all) needed to melt the wax into the line. That should take some of the kinks out. Dampening the line and hanging it, as you have done, will pre-stretch the line, which may help eliminate some sagging in the finished model.

[DonInAZ]

I tried the beeswax first, but it had no effect on getting rid of the "kinks".  I didn't try soaking the line before adding the weights... maybe I'll try that next.

Thanks for the replies,

Don

[Jaager]

Before you hang it under weight,  wet it lightly using a cloth soaked with a ~50% solution or lower concentration of bookbinders glue -  neutral pH PVA. 

It will stiffen the line,  is archival quality,  dries clear and if the amount used is not excessive, will not leave an outside coating.

Woodworkers glue - white or yellow PVA is very acidic and the more water resistant the type the lower is its pH.

[AON]

Jaager,

Are you suggesting the acidity in the woodworkers glue will eventually rot the line?

Alan

[usedtosail]

Try running the waxed line over a light bulb that is on. This worked for me before I started making my own line.

[DonInAZ]

So it turns out for this particular case, soaking in very hot (almost boiling) water for 30 min and then drying under tension did the trick.

[Jaager]

Alan,

Yes.  I think that it is possible that the acidic  pH could affect natural cellulose based rigging.  By this, I mean linen and cotton.

Titebond II is pH 3 and Titebond III is pH 2.5.  In a wood to wood bond the volume and density of the cellulose should minimize any pH effect.  Rigging line is neither dense nor high in volume.  The lower pH could accelerate the adverse reactions with 02 and UV light over time.  This possible problem is avoided by using pH 7 PVA.   Bookbinders see a need for it to preserve paper, which is also cellulose.   I take their hint to heart.

As for beeswax,  I think it is also acidic and also may have trace amounts of digestive enzymes.  I think Renaissance Wax is a safer option.

Except for PVA itself, I avoid any use of man made / synthetic materials, so I have no idea about the effects of pH on synthetic fibers.  I suspect that like PE, it is possible that the original polymerization reaction that produced these fibers may continue at a low rate over time in the presence of 02 and UV.  The increased cross linking would make it rigid and brittle and subject to being shattered under any stress.

 

 

[bartley]

Alan,

 

The pH of the faster setting PVA's like Tightbond is around 2.5. This is very acidic and I believe that there is a chance that it will damage natural fiber line over time.  You have to ask yourself why bookbinders use neutral PVA.  Books are cellulose just like natural fiber line is.  Synthetic line might be OK. but I always use neutral PVA on my rigging to be on the safe side.  It does take longer to set of course.

 

John

[allanyed]

Found this in the American Bee Journal.

"As beeswax is the primary construction material of the beehive, its chemical composition is integral to how the hive functions. This same material, the storage location of food resources and developing brood, must be relatively non-reactive, so beeswax’s neutral pH (7) suits the need perfectly."

 

Allan

[Chuck]

Its nylon or plastic so All of the traditional

methods wont work.  You need to heat it up and hang a wright on the end.

[DonInAZ]

2 hours ago, Chuck said:

Its nylon or plastic so All of the traditional

methods wont work.  You need to heat it up and hang a wright on the end.

Just checked Model Shipways website... and what I have is in fact Nylon, not cotton. 

And yes heating it up in near boiling water for several minutes and then hanging it under tension straightened it out perfectly.

Thank you Chuck!

[AON]

I read an excellent article by Peter E Demarest in NRG Vol 56, Spring issue 1 (2011) pgs 57-58 regarding CA glue attacking white metal, copper and cotton/linen fibres (scale rope).

There was a followup letter by the same fellow in the next issue pg 117.

Concerns for off gases over time in a confined space (display case) ?

I've also read online (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate) that it can have an exothermic reaction with wood and leather!  But then it is sold to be used on wood (?).

Any search I've done list the pH of CA glue as "not applicable".

I've always thought yellow and white wood glue to have a pH of about 4 to 5.5

I've also seen and read about the white glue being diluted and used in rigging (i.e. making faux splices).

 

Your comments are food for thought.

I am now looking into book binders glue.

 

Thank you Allen Ed for the additional info on Bees wax.

[Justin P.]

4 minutes ago, AON said:

I read an excellent article by Peter E Demarest in NRG Vol 56, Spring issue 1 (2011) pgs 57-58 regarding CA glue attacking white metal, copper and cotton/linen fibres (scale rope).

There was a followup letter by the same fellow in the next issue pg 117.

Concerns for off gases over time in a confined space (display case) ?

I've also read online (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate) that it can have an exothermic reaction with wood and leather!  But then it is sold to be used on wood (?).

Any search I've done list the pH of CA glue as "not applicable".

I've always thought yellow and white wood glue to have a pH of about 4 to 5.5

I've also seen and read about the white glue being diluted and used in rigging (i.e. making faux splices).

 

Your comments are food for thought.

I am now looking into book binders glue.

 

Thank you Allen Ed for the additional info on Bees wax.

 

Bookbinders glue is a poly-vinyl acrylate, so not much different than wood glue.  Wood glue and/or PVA is will be your most inert adhesive over the long-term.   There are other more stable adhesives out there that we rare book conservators use as alternatives to PVA for longevity, but those are impractical for use in ship-modeling.  

[bartley]

There seems to be a bit of confusion here with the chemistry.  It is a bit pedantic but I think it helps in trying to classify these products.

 

PVA stands for poly vinyl acetate  (not acrylate)  Titebond, Elmers and book binders  glue are all PVA's but the exact formulation gives rise to different or pH's or acidity.  The significant thing about Bookbinders glue and some other "craft" glues is that they are neutral (pH 7).  CA is cyano acrylate.  This is a very different animal as we know from its properties. Note it is not a polymer in the bottle but polymerizes on contact with moisture.  Many acrylates are lachrymatory ((they make us cry) However, Perspex and the polymer in water based paints are also acrylates but they have a different chemical structure and are less harmful, largely because they are already polymerized and so are relatively stable although hey do degrade with time. CA is what we call a monomer ie it is a small molecule and so has some rather dangerous properties. Once it has polymerized or "set" it is much less harmful.

 

Hope this iis not too confusing,

 

John

Edited February 8, 2020 by bartley

[Justin P.]

17 minutes ago, bartley said:

There seems to be a bit of confusion here with the chemistry.  It is a bit pedantic but I think it helps in trying to classify these products.

 

PVA stands for poly vinyl acetate  (not acrylate)  Titebond, Elmers and book binders  glue are all PVA's but the exact formulation gives rise to different or pH's or acidity.  The significant thing about Bookbinders glue and some other "craft" glues is that they are neutral (pH 7).  CA is cyano acrylate.  This is a very different animal as we know from its properties. Note it is not a polymer in the bottle but polymerizes on contact with moisture.  Many acrylates are lachrymatory ((they make us cry) However, Perspex and the polymer in water based paints are also acrylates but they have a different chemical structure and are less harmful.

 

Hope this iis not too confusing,

 

John

 

Yes that's correct, I think Im getting my cyano-acrylate and my poly-vinyl acetates mixed up

Edited February 7, 2020 by Justin P.

[cwo-ret]

Because the lines I have some nylon or are all nylon, I have had success running line under an iron set on medium heat. The heat from the iron will smooth out the kinks and straighten out the lines.

 

Jim

[stuglo]

All very interesting but MY main problem is how to replace the irish linen thread I found in a haberdashery shop over 25 years ago( large spools manufactured pre-war). I substituted this for all the ropes supplied in kits, but have  now run out. The modern stuff I received, natural or synthetic, is a poor second. Anyone out there with a secret source?

[Justin P.]

8 hours ago, stuglo said:

All very interesting but MY main problem is how to replace the irish linen thread I found in a haberdashery shop over 25 years ago( large spools manufactured pre-war). I substituted this for all the ropes supplied in kits, but have  now run out. The modern stuff I received, natural or synthetic, is a poor second. Anyone out there with a secret source?

You can still get linen thread....   https://www.colophonbookarts.com/binding

[stuglo]

sincere thanks

[timjina]

Hi guys, after persevering with threads that come with kits and getting frustrated . I have now discovered waxed thread ( the type used for leather work. ) It comes in all different thicknesses and colors. 

I find it very easy to work with E.G. threading through blocks etc as it maintains a straight line and sharp point. I do however always drill my blocks out prior to threading, it makes the process so much easier.

The finished result ( to me at least ) is very acceptable.I always buy on lineusing EBAY and the thread comes from China at a very inexpensive cost and freight free The company who make the thread is GALACES.

It does have a slight sheen in some light so when a model is finished or a separate section I'm working on is complete I will brush over it with a water based flat clear finish ( this also seals the knot.

I hope this is some assistance to someone. As I say it works for me and being able to buy in various thicknesses and colors is a great advantage. All I type in is LEATHER WORK THREAD and a whole list of stockists pop up on ebay.

Happy building to you all....we have an amazing hobby.....I pity a person retiring who hasn't a hobby........JIM CLELAND