Dust extractor - compact and quiet?

[Rik Thistle]

Hi all,

 

I tend to do my sanding by hand and also using a Proxxon disc sander TG 125/E in my garden shed (during the warm summer months) - this is to keep the dust out of my house. I also use a small Proxxon wood lathe in the shed, and that also produces dust.

 

As winter approaches I have tried using the disc sander in my house attached to a mains powered Panasonic vacuum....

.. but the noise from the vacuum was unbearable. It is also large and the tubing is cumbersome.

 

Question - is there a compact, very quiet dust extractor suitable for indoor use? Ideally it would attach directly by tube to the disc sander, but also have a suction tube that could be placed near the lathe or hand sanding area.

 

Thanks,

 

Richard

[mnl]

I think Festool may make the quietest dust extractor, and HEPA filtration to boot. I have been thinking about getting one. There are a couple of dual speed models that advertise 62db low and 72 db normal. I think Fein may also have something in that ballpark. Of course a high end vacuum cleaner will do about the same. Just be advised none of those are inexpensive options.

[Rik Thistle]

mnl,

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Yes, the Festool industrial extractors aren't cheap (£400 - £800) but do look purpose built, albeit large .... https://www.screwfix.com/c/tools/dust-extraction/cat830940?brand=festool

 

Fein also do similar but are a bit cheaper ... £320 - £590.

 

Makita do a 72dB one for £190 ... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Makita-VC2012L-Class-Dust-Extractor/dp/B00YHG86VS/ref=as_li_ss_tl?crid=6JPUX5VFH86H&keywords=dust+extractor&qid=1554441892&refinements=p_72:419153031&rnid=419152031&s=gateway&sprefix=dust+ex,aps,155&sr=8-60&linkCode=ll1&tag=diy32-21&linkId=dd3a6baf3f87965b394880c4d9eeb63e&language=en_GB

 

There is a Scheppach one for £106 ... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Scheppach-HD2P-Extractor-Collector-Attachments/dp/B00HVZ7OS8/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=Dust+Extractor&qid=1606122919&refinements=p_36%3A7500-&rnid=118657031&sr=8-4

 

And a domestic green Bosch vacuum cleaner (73dB) at £77 ... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bosch-EasyVac-Compact-Vacuum-Cleaner/dp/B072B6SQZT/ref=pd_sbs_60_1/262-5849643-1925430?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B072B6SQZT&pd_rd_r=38b47fc0-f5b8-43a8-9d86-35510732addb&pd_rd_w=cFnRc&pd_rd_wg=eoZSE&pf_rd_p=2304238d-df78-4b25-a9a0-b27dc7bd722e&pf_rd_r=T5ZXZAS4S0D2RPS2JNPE&psc=1&refRID=T5ZXZAS4S0D2RPS2JNPE

 

Anyway, looking at criteria, in order of importance...

 

a) Health - keeping lungs clean

                 - ears undamaged (40dB average home noise, 60dB conversation and background music, 70dB office noise and inside a car).

b) Functionality - equipment reliability, catches 'most' of the dust, fits under a desk/bench, mains powered (or battery?)

c) Cost - £800 is way too expensive, but what price do we put on health?

d) Size - nice if it could tuck under the desk and the tubes weren't cumbersome

 

If I find anything of further interest, I'll post here. Or if anyone has experience of a cost-effective, functional quiet dust extractor it would be great to hear about it.

 

Thanks,

 

Richard

 

 

 

[goetzi73]

Hello Richard,

 

one important thing to point out: The Festool machinery is for professional use. Therefore it has to match certain criteria, at least here in Germany.

Dust is classified in categories L, M, H. For wood shops using a M-class extractor would be recommended. 

In our modelling ship yards a L-class machine should be sufficient.

Nevertheless wood dust can be carcinognic (e.g. beech). Personally I'am using a festool CTM Midi in my workshop. It works fine with my large Power Tools, I use for cabinet-Making and all other stuff around my house, and it works fine with my proxxon tools I use for modelling.

Yes, these are expensive, Makitas extractors are less expensive, but you get a nice machine that's robust and easy to handle.

It's your choice, but I would recommend using at least an extractor certified as L-class.

 

Götz

 

 

 

 

 

[mnl]

I was thinking of this one at $350

https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/festool-ct15e-hepa-dust-extractor.aspx

 

To put it in perspective, a HEPA Meile vacuum cleaner, also nice a quiet, is $699.

 

[Rik Thistle]

Hi Götz,

 

That's useful info. If I do go for a proper dust extractor then I'm looking at an 'L Class' for my shipyard/study.

 

Which, out of this list....   https://www.powertoolworld.co.uk/tools/vacuums-dust-extractors/l-class-rated-extractors?corded_voltage=414  points me towards the £230 Fein, 240V, 67dB (A) ...       https://www.powertoolworld.co.uk/fein-dustex-25-22l-wet-dry-dust-extractor-machine

 

At the moment, my mains powered, house vacuum is a Panasonic MC-E3002. It is very noisy but I cannot find a dB rating to use it as a benchmark. I also have a couple of quieter Dyson battery vacuums. I currently use a Black and Decker Dustbuster in the shipyard/study for cleaning up after hand sanding.

 

Hand sanding tends to generate dust but (in a still room) gravity pulls most of it down to the desk. Power sanding tools tend to throw dust up in to the air and that would be of concern and where a dust extractor would be needed.

 

OK, plenty of food for thought. If I buy an extractor I will post here on how it performs.

 

Thanks again,

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

 

[Rik Thistle]

mnl,

 

I was thinking of this one at $350
https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/festool-ct15e-hepa-dust-extractor.aspx
To put it in perspective, a HEPA Meile vacuum cleaner, also nice a quiet, is $699.

 

Thanks.  The Festool is available in the UK for about £280 ....  https://www.axminstertools.com/festool-ct-15-dust-extractor-106635        

 

I'll read up on it.

 

In a perfect world I'd like an L class, very quiet (<50dB A), 250mm x250mm x250mm cubic extractor, with a wide suction nozzle that could be positioned above the work area and cost less than £100 😉  Maybe there is a market gap for home hobbyists?

 

Regards,

 

Richard

 

[mnl]

Don’t let the nozzle put you off, just make one. I did for all my big machines, sheet aluminum or thin plywood.

[Rik Thistle]

OK mnl, thanks for the tip.

 

Richard

[Rik Thistle]

Thanks Glenn,

 

I'll add the Rabbit Air to the list I'm looking at.

 

Regards,

 

Richard

[mtaylor]

I'll be the odd man out here....  I use a 5 gal. shop vac.  and move the hose from machine to machine.  Works well for me but I'm not processing logs or large blocks of wood.   As for hearing protection... ear plugs or what's use to be called "Mickey Mouse" ears (a headset type of ear protection that foam lined) works for me.   If I'm feeling lazy for just a few pieces, I turn off my hearing aids and leave them in my ears. 

[Rik Thistle]

Mark,

 

Yeah, a standard vacuum is a reasonable solution. I did try my Panasonic with a pair of Sony NC headphones but even they couldn't cope 😉

 

I suspect I'll muck though for the next while using a combination of holding my breath and tidying up after with my Dust Buster. But in the longer term I will keep my eye open for a compact, quiet solution.

 

Cheers,

 

Richard

Edited November 23, 2020 by Rik Thistle

[VTHokiEE]

6 hours ago, glbarlow said:

run my Byrnes saw,  sander, Proxxon lathe and mill, this product keeps the air clean. 

Am I correct that you still need to vacuum up afterwards?

[Landlubber Mike]

I run my Byrnes tools through a Fein shop vac, with a Dust Deputy cyclone canister to lower the load on the shop vac and save on bags.  I also have an overhead Rikon filtration unit that is supposed to pull in dust that doesn't make it into the Fein.  If you are going to use a shop vac, be aware that you might need an adaptor if the tool is imperial and the vac is metric or vice versa.  Fein being German, I had to use a combo of two different adaptors to connect the Fein to the Brynes tools.

 

I'd be curious if that Rabbit is sufficient for dust collection.  My Byrnes tools kick out a lot of sawdust - I think you want to capture as much of the particulate as possible as it comes out of the machine, rather than wait for it to eventually get pulled into a contraption like the Rabbit.  Plus, some particulate is heavy and will immediately fall, the rest light and may stay airborne.  Not saying it can't work, but I think the safest thing is to try to capture as much as you can at the tool as possible.

[Rik Thistle]

I think the safest thing is to try to capture as much as you can at the tool as possible.

 

Yes, that's the ideal scenario.

 

I imagine we, the members, have a range of 'shipyard' layouts ranging from almost full blown commercial workshops with a wide range of machinery that is used most days, to a corner of a room in a house and a Dremel power tool that is used once a week.

 

I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all dust extractor solution.

 

I'll probably use my small lathe and disc sander in my shed whilst wearing a mask and with the door open. In my study I'd like to use some kind of quiet, compact dust extractor that captures dust from a Dremel without the dust getting in to the air in the room and then in to my lungs.

 

Richard

 

 

[Canute]

Mike's use of the Dust Deputy cyclone canister will probably fill the bill for the hobby scale saw set. If you're working with full size tools, you need full size dust collection.

[Landlubber Mike]

4 hours ago, glbarlow said:

Your welcome to your choice, don’t denigrate mine with no facts to support doing so. Check the Rabbit website for my facts. 

 

Wow man, relax.  From everything I've read - and I read a lot when setting things up on my end - having a dust extraction at the tool itself is one of the best things you can do.  If the Rabbit works, that's great.  Good for you.  I wasn't denigrating anyone or anything.

[MEDDO]

On 11/23/2020 at 6:27 AM, mnl said:

I was thinking of this one at $350

https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/festool-ct15e-hepa-dust-extractor.aspx

 

To put it in perspective, a HEPA Meile vacuum cleaner, also nice a quiet, is $699.

 

This is the one that I have. I really like it. It is great for our hobby sized tools (Byrnes).  I especially like the auto on off feature. The only weirdness is the end of the hose connection to the tools where you have to use an adapter. Other than that I really like this unit.

[davec]

Hi Michael - I almost bought one of those.  How does it work with really fine dust?  Most of my hard to control dust is from thickness sanding, where the dust is really fine and ends up clogging the filter on the shop vac I use with the sander.  I was worried that if I got the Festool vacuum I would end up having to add the $300 festool dust separator.  I ended up getting a cyclone dust devil, which takes care of dust extraction, but is really inconvenient because I have to move the shop vac and cyclone from machine to machine.  Are you having to clean the Festool filter frequently?  If it worked for all my sanding, I might still get one.  Even if it works for everything else but the thickness sander, might still make sense.  Right now if I'm milling wood strips I end up setting the cyclone and shop vac up on the planer, then band saw, then thickness sander, then Byrnes saw.  Would be way easier with a single extractor than the cyclone/vacuum combo.  If need be, I guess I could leave the cyclone attached to the thickness sander and use the festool for everything else.

 

My wife got a bunch of HEPA air filters for the house when I developed a chronic cough.  I have one in the shop.  It does help for the airborne stuff, but wouldn't be near adequate on its own.  Way easier to have direct dust extraction to the sawdust generating machines than trying to get everything with a vacuum cleaner after.  It has seemed to cut the airborne dust when it is time to do finish work.  I wear a mask while sanding/painting, but nice to know the dust is taken care of when a mask isn't otherwise necessary.

 

Dave

[MEDDO]

Dave, it works great on the Byrnes table saw and the disk sander.  I have not yet needed to try it out with the thickness sander.  I will give it a go this weekend.  I tend to do the thickness sanding in the garage were it is less of an issue but if it works out I may leave it in my shop so I don’t have to carry everything up there. Previously I had used a cheepo no name wet/dry shop vac and that one is significantly less powerful than the festool (and significantly louder).  A buddy of mine has one of the cyclone over a large vac and it seems to work well but is pretty inconvenient to move around different machines.

 

edit: I am pretty sensitized to cedar so I will run some western red through it this weekend to see.  It will be pretty easy for me to tell if it is doing it’s job

[Rik Thistle]

Hi all,

Bill Penz's blog is a bit of an eye opener ...     https://billpentz.blogspot.com/  

Apparently it is the extremely fine dust that we cannot see that is the real problem.

Richard   

[Mike Y]

I would seriously challenge the idea of a shop vac for our hobby (assuming you are not doing a full scale woodworking on a side). I am using a regular household vaccuum for 4 years already, though a bit of a fancy variety (Bosch ProSilence, HEPA filter included).

It's quiet. The airflow is more than enough, I rarely use it on a highest setting. It's quiet, nothing is ever getting clogged, no dust is spread inside. Its guts are clean as new, and dust bags are cheap and readily available. I also used if for small-scale woodworking, from cutting quite a lot of wood on a table saw to thickness planing.

It's way cheaper than a shop vac (100-120 EUR/USD), way smaller and quieter.

Since it's quiet - you can easily run it on a low or medium-low rpm during the entire modelling session. I use it all the time when sanding by hand, which actually produces quite a lot of fine dust right next to your mouth. Would you run the shop vac all the time while working on some parts? Unlikely, since it is ungodly loud. This gently kitty can be run all the time.

 

And if I'm wrong and you really need a massive shop vac and a cyclone - it can be always repurposed as a regular household vac, no loss  

 

P.S.: the hose of this vac has the right diameter to fit Proxxon tools with no special adapters. I hope that the US version is not using a different hose though...

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Mike Y

[Roger Pellett]

I have a pair of ear muff hearing protectors that I bought many years ago for target shooting.  These do a great job of blocking out sound, even that from a full sized table saw or a noisy air compressor.  While not a solution for apartment dwellers, they in my opinion solve the problem in my basement workshop.